Should our photographer give us partial refund for being late for wedding and over a month late on photos?

<p>I'm at a loss as of what to do about our wedding photographer. First of all, she was 40 minutes late for our wedding. Because of that our family and friends had to wait over 20 minutes for our wedding to start. Now she is over a month late with our photos. We didn't realize till a few weeks ago that she never sent our signed copy of the contract. I'm not sure what to do. I feel like we deserve some sort of partial refund. I also don't know how to ask for a copy of the contract without upsetting her. We really just want our photos, but it's been a nightmare waiting for the photos. She's not good at keeping in contact with us either. I understand that mistakes happen, I'm just feeling like we are being taken advantage of. We haven't had any harsh words with her and we've been overly understanding at this point. Any advice? Thanks.</p>

<p>In theory, no contract means you don't have a leg to stand on. I'd say, give her a call and she what she has to say. If you had paid 200-300 US dollars to shoot a wedding, chances are that you had hired a GWC - guy or girl with a camera rather than a photographer.<br>

If they are not able to respond within an acceptable timeframe, then ring the local newspaper and see if a journalist would like to do an article on shoddy GWC posing as a photographer in the local area. </p>

<p>I am wondering if there is a problem with the photos and she is trying to hide that fact. Do you have anything in writing (i.e. email) that says when the photos will be available? <br>

I think being understanding is great, to a point, but clearly it's not working, so ramp it up a bit. The customer should always receive a <em>timely</em>, professional response.</p>

<p>What does contact mean? Phone calls or email? Most misunderstandings can be straightened out with a phone call. Email is just too passive. I'd try calling several more times, maybe even a few times a day. Keep it cordial- threatening to sue or call the paper means nothing if you aren't willing to back it up. Keep in mind that once you begin to behave badly, there's very few alternative paths if it doesn't get the result that you want.<br /> What does a month late mean? Does that mean the wedding was a month ago? Two, three, months ago?<br /> I've never given a refund for any misunderstanding. I've given free product, but never a refund.<br /> Also, the next time you sign a contract, get a copy of it. Or if you're mailing it back to a contractor, xerox it. Don't depend on the other party for your copy.</p>

hi jennifer welcome tp photonet. agree with above. you say you signed a contract. maybe a polite enquiry reminding her of her obligation?( not legal advice)nb regards miken

It sounds like she probably has another job, kids to tend to, things of that nature. Take a look at the photo's before asking for a refund of the first 40 minutes. Send a letter demanding the images by such and such date. I would think 2 to 3 weeks is a fair amount of time.

 

I would surely ask why she was late, then decide what you want to do, such as trading time for a wall enlargement or something like that. Photographers in general would rather trade work then pay out a refund.

 

I've never been late for a wedding, but bad things can happen, such as freeways being jammed up, the car won't start, sick, flat tire,whatever. I think I would play it cool and see whats up, then figure out what you would like to do. Perhaps nothing if it didn't effect your photos, such as missed out photos that were needed to tell a story of the day.

<blockquote>

<p>In theory, no contract means you don't have a leg to stand on.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No, not having a copy of the written contract doesn't mean that you have no leg to stand on. It just means it's a bit more awkward to work out exactly what was agreed.</p>

<p>How do you know she is a month late? Was a particular period for delivery of the images agreed? If so, how and where - by email or your recollection of the written contract that you don't have a copy of, something she said, or somewhere else? First you need to be able to show that she is late.</p>

<p>It may not necessarily be best to go straight for the jugular, but perhaps at this stage a letter pointing out that the pictures are late, that especially in view of the fact that she had been late for the wedding you had hoped to be treated better, and if she could urgently let you know (give a shortish deadline for a response) when the pictures are ready. If no response to that, then send a letter with more menace in it. If no adequate response to that, then it may be time to start talking to lawyers...</p>

<p>Turning up 40 minutes late to the wedding is pretty extraordinary. But then again, accidents and unforeseen circumstances can happen (one reason why I think most professional photographers would turn up or at least be in the vicinity of the venue an hour or more early).</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>In theory, no contract means you don't have a leg to stand on.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Money was paid in exchange for a shoot and images. Offer, acceptance, consideration and partial performance. Classic contract formation and indicia. What theory says Jennifer has no "leg to stand on"?</p>

<p>(Simon posted his message while I was writing mine. I agree with his comments).</p>

<p>I wouldn't pitch any fits or get aggressive before you have the photos in hand.</p>

<p>One should not have to beg for communication or their images. Don't call...keep everything in writing!</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for your responses. We did have a contract but didn't realize that it hadn't been sent back to us (our bad). I have no intention of suing or being threatening in anyway. I understand mistakes happen and some things are out of our control. She was 40 minutes late because she got lost. We were incredibly understanding. At that point, we were just happy she was there. In all the commotion of trying to get in touch with her, we didn't have a chance to finish explaining to a friend to video tape the wedding, so now we have no video of it. She emailed me that it would be 4-8 weeks. It's been over 12 at this point. From what we can tell, she's a professional. We choose a $650 package that included 3 hours of photographing and 3 hours of editing. She had more expensive packages that were similar to other sites we looked at. Since it was a small and intimate non-traditional wedding, we didn't need the 6+hours and unlimited editing. We've have been nothing but understanding with her. I call, she doesn't answer. There's not much I can do with that. I understand that most of you are probably wedding photographers. I'm not trying to upset or offend anyone. I'm just trying to get some ideas and opinions on what to do. I don't plan on bad mouthing this person, I only hope she learns from this and doesn't put anyone else through this. I'm just frustrated and feeling taking advantage of. That's all. And from what we've seen, she's a wonderful photographer. Her communication skills are what sucks. Thanks again to everyone for the responses.</p>

<p>In my opinion, nothing more, you deserve a refund. It is the photographer's responsibility to be on time. Because stuff happens, I always arrive at a site very early, sometimes as much as two hours if it's out of town. It's unacceptable that your photographer did not leave room for error. The one time when a misunderstanding occurred between myself and the client about the time to report, I was about 15 minutes late for pre-ceremony formals because I would normally have been 45 minutes EARLY at that hour! It was sort of the bride's fault for having one time in an old email and a later time in the online booking page, but since I did not look in the old emails and confirm it, I gave her a $100 print credit just to relieve any stress caused. And again, I would have been much later if I had been on my way to be there an hour earlier. When the Maid of Honor called me frantically, I was already on the way and almost there - not an hour away like I would have been if I hadn't left early as a matter of course. You do what you have to do to make the client happy. Period. Even though the bride later apologized and took the blame for putting the wrong time in, I still gave her the credit. That's what a professional does. </p>

<p>If there are any of you out there who don't know how to run a business in a service-driven industry like ours, my suggestion is to take a week and spend it at a resort hotel at Disneyworld. Observe the standards they maintain for service on every level. Learn. If you're not sure how to handle a situation, ask yourself What Would Disney Do! ; )</p>

<p>This person does not sound like a professional. I'm so sorry you are having such a lousy experience. This is very much a word-of-mouth driven industry. It boggles my mind sometimes how often I hear of GWC (I love that acronym, Starvy) making us look bad because of their own bad behaviors. You're not likely to recommend them, now are you? Of course not.</p>

<p>I disagree about not calling. By calling, you may get your photographer to respond much more promptly, particularly if you can communicate grace in your tone of voice, even across more than one voice message (left same-day or over a couple of days).</p>

<p>If she isn't happy with the results, or if she is behind on editing, she may be too embarrassed to initiate contact, and worried about your reaction. A friendly, patient tone in your voice message(s) may draw her out. This is not to say that you should excuse poor results or poor communication -- only that the first thing you want is to hear from her.</p>

<p>I do agree with Theresa that a written record is useful, so, after calling a couple of times, you might follow up with an email summarizing your efforts to contact her -- again, keeping it as friendly as you can. You might also email a summary of each conversation, to confirm that you're both on the same page about next steps and terms upon which you have agreed verbally.</p>

<p>I can't say whether expecting a partial refund is appropriate until you can tell us about the photos themselves -- if you're thrilled with the product, you may not feel so annoyed by the photographer's lateness. If you're not, then (to put it simply), the tardiness probably won't have been the most serious offense.</p>

<p>Jennifer, a good percentage of wedding photography has absolutely nothing to do with a camera. Much of it is people skills, of which this shooter has little to none. 12 weeks is far too long <strong>IF</strong> that expectation was not laid out at the beginning by the photographer.</p>

<p>Even though most people here may be wedding photographers, I think most, probably all, of us will have our sympathies absolutely with you, not her. 40 minutes late is difficult to excuse. There are several ways we make sure this couldn't happen - if the venue is far away, we'd aim to get there perhaps two or three hours early. Or if it's more than a couple of hours away - set off the night before and stay overnight in a hotel close by. We'd also visit the venue some weeks before (unless it really was many hours away, in which case we'd set off the day before) so we'd know where it was and exactly how to get there, with a backup transport plan. Being late simply isn't something that can be even contemplated.</p>

<p>It doesn't take 12 weeks to do 3 hours of editing. But 3 hours sounds odd - I can't imagine editing a wedding in anything like 3 hours. It typically takes us 50 hours or more hard work editing, though that's probably a bit extreme in the other direction (and for longer coverage) - but 3 hours!? It rings alarm bells for me.</p>

<p>$650 also sounds extremely cheap and rings more alarm bells. It can't be enough for a professional to survive on unless she is doing many weddings a week. Which may mean that she is not really professional, or it may mean that she had to take on so many weddings to survive that now she can't cope with preparing the images and is months behind in preparing the images.</p>

<p>The only reason to tread a little bit carefully with her and not get heavy immediately is that she still has your wedding photos, and it may not necessarily help to let the relationship get ugly too quickly. It sounds like you have been more than patient, but phone calls are not much use, you need to be putting your demands/requests in writing. Don't phone her, at the very least email, even better letter, with a copy of the letter and a record of the date posted. The time for phoning is past - if she hasn't responded to your calls so far, she won't start now. Get all the correspondance in writing. If I were you I would be looking to start getting legal, or at least threatening to do so, if she doesn't give an adequate response to the next two letters.</p>

<p>I'm with Ian and others. Pick up the phone and call. Yes, it's important in some cases to have a written record. But AFTER the phone call, you can send a nice email memorializing what was said in the phone call. </p>

<p>I find that an awful lot of my brides simply don't know how to write well. This isn't a knock; it's a sign of the times. Most people don't express themselves well or fully in writing, and they have great difficulty expressing requests that they're not sure they should be making. That's why I personally BEG people to call me. It saves time. I'm good on the phone, they're good on the phone, and we can usually clear up misunderstandings quickly and painlessly. I would much rather have people call me than sit and stew. </p>

<p>And after the phone call, I email them and record what we said and agreed on. Works for me.</p>

<p>Now, if you call and simply can't reach the photographer, or if you leave numerous messages and she doesn't respond, well, then it starts to get more worrisome.</p>

<p>Will</p>

<p>I promise you that I've been nothing but understanding and patient. I only want our photos or some answers. I feel like we've been an exception to the rule on how a bride and groom would react. We had fun while taking the pictures after the ceremony and I really like her. I'm just wanting better communication. That's just part of the job. I'm sure if something bad happened with the pictures it would be incredibly hard to call the clients, but once again, that's part of the job. Even with this whole experience, I hope that her business does well. From what I've seen, she's talented. It will probably end up being more of a learning experience for her than me, seeing that I only plan on doing this marriage thing once. I do appreciate everyone's comments though.</p>

<p>Do you have her address? If she isn't answering calls, then go see her, pretty simple really--is she still alive? You know there can be many reasons for all of this and maybe you need to do a little leg work. It isn't professional what has happened, although getting lost might be an honest mistake, but there may some extenuating circumstances--like severe illness. Go see her and let her know you were worried about her since she hasn't responded. Then you will have a better idea about what you are really dealing with.</p>

<p>If all the good faith in the world doesn't get anywhere, a lawyer's letter delivered by bailiff will usually result in a reponse. It's what lawyers are for; when two people sitting across the table can't agree.</p>

<p>Michael, I think there is a time and place for that, to be sure, but I think Jennifer is trying to find out what is going on and fully expects the photos will be wonderful. If she was or is getting blown off and not getting attention to her requests, that is one thing. If she just hasn't heard back from the photographer, then that is another. Once the facts are actually ferreted out, the action will be more clear.</p>

<p>I am not suggesting that getting a lawyer involved isn't an option, but I guess I think people need to find ways to work together first, people have gotten so litigious these days and in this case, there isn't a clear reason why things haven't moved along--get some clarity, then maybe a lawyer is in the cards--or not!</p>

<p>Jennifer,<br>

Do your best to settle this on a friendly basis. The money you've paid isn't substantial compared to the value of your special photographs and if she delivers what you expect, I'd let the rest ride.<br>

She may be a talented photographer, but will probably never be successful in business if this is how she handles her clients. Hiding behind the phone and email is no way to treat a customer and chances are that this trait of hers will never change......-TED :-)</p>

<p>Jennifer, your information and desires are not exactly clear, to me.<br>

Since the Wedding –</p>

 

<ol>

<li>You have telephoned on how many occasions?</li>

<li>The Photographer has answered the phone how many times?</li>

<li>Does the Photographer have message bank on the phone – do you leave messages?</li>

<li>The photographer has communicated with you only once and that was an email stating the photos would be ready in 8 weeks?</li>

<li>At this time, you want what, as the “best outcome” for you?:</li>

</ol>

<p>a) the Wedding Photos<br>

b) a reduction in price and the Wedding Photos<br>

c) an explanation and better communications - and then you will decide what you want next.</p>

<p>WW</p>

 

<p>Jennifer, I'm sorry you've had this experience. Your photographer disrupted your wedding day, and now has kept you waiting for the photos significantly longer than you expected based on your agreement with her.</p>

<p>You asked whether a refund would be appropriate, not for advice about how to talk with her. Perhaps a partial refund would be appropriate, but -- and I think this is why we've discussed how to communicate with her so much, here -- you may want to wait until you have the photos before addressing that question, because you don't want to remove any existing incentives for her to deliver.</p>

<p>Unless, that is, you conclude that a <em>full </em>refund is due, along with whatever images she took in whatever condition they are currently in. If you are at (or when you get to) the point where you are contemplating demanding a full refund, communicating the possibility in advance may prompt a quick response. <em>"Your failure to deliver images by the contracted deadline, your failure to communicate or respond to even the simplest repeated requests for information, and your failure to arrive on time at the wedding (and the resulting delay to the ceremony) justify a full refund and immediate delivery of all images, regardless of the level of editing performed to date. We do not wish to make such a drastic demand, and you can help us avoid it by responding within 48 hours."</em> Use your own words.</p>

<p>I hope that the photos she took are precious to you, that she responds to you (with an explanation that helps smooth things over), and that she delivers great photos to you right away, Jennifer. Please let us know how things turn out, would you?</p>

<p>John, I was merely pointing to the alternative since many good suggestions have already been offered.</p>

<p>Jennifer has waited patiently for over 12 weeks when 4-8 weeks was promised. While I also believe one should first seek an amicable resolution to the matter, the law is there to protect victims against tortious acts should matter become unresolvable. Our litigious society perhaps speaks more about the numbers of tortfeasors than victim attitudes; nice guys finish last because they don't fight back. We'd have an explosion in numbers of lawsuits if every victim did fight back.</p>

<p>Jennifer,<br>

Jennifer you have a "good leg to stand on" in this case, in fact, an excellent case.<br>

<em>"No contract = No leg to stand on."</em> This is true only in real estate transactions. <br>

Yours is the perfect case for Small Claims Court, Justice Court, or whatever its called in you location.<br>

The photographer was late, shot your wedding (your guests can vouch for both), you paid money and you have no pictures. Make the photog prove otherwise.<br>

Justice Courts filing fees are very low, and you won't need an attorney. Just tell the Judge your honest side of the story. Ask for your $650, plus compensation for being late, and emotional damages - you have no pictures of your wedding. And ask for the raw photo files from the photog so that you can have a 3rd party process and print them for you, and for those costs in addition to all else. You may not get everything you ask, but if you don't ask, you are certain to get nothing.<br>

Also, the photog got lost. ? ? ? ? Absolutely no excuse whatsoever, not at all. The photog was too ******* lazy to look up the location on google maps, before he left the house ? ! ? ! ? PUH-LEEEEAZE, GIVE ME A BREAK. They've had maps of North America for over 600 years! That is the height of L-A-Z Y. (and it is stupid)<br>

Best of luck with your case.<br>

Roger Dennis</p>