Should I give up wedding negatives?

I was asked to shoot a wedding for a relative for cheaps. So I agreed

to do it for cost. However, 'cost' in my mind seems different from

the groom's. I'll be charging the price I bought the rolls of film

for, plus the developing of the negatives and prints. However, a

dispute arose when it was found out I wouldn't be giving up my

negatives. I tried to explain that as their creator I own the

copyright and the right to keep them. But almost everyone else seems

to believe that if I'm keeping the negatives I shouldn't charge for

the price of the roll of film, nor the developing of the negative.

Especially since a young cousin already had volunteered to use the

groom's P&S and shoot the whole wedding for free.

 

Explaining the differences and the finer points of copyright seems

totally futile. Should I just relent and give up the negatives?

Should I decline to shoot at all? If I do, I probably should decline

my invite to the wedding too huh?

If you've not shot the wedding yet then you still have time to get out. Get out now :) Don't do relatives important events unless they're willing to agree to your terms.

 

You can advise them at how crappy their P&S photos are going to be and how they're going to regret not having a competent photographer but that'll only go so far.

 

It's not worth ruining family relationships over this. Unless you're not close to them. :)

 

Another school of thought is to either charge them slightly more for the negs, give them the negs as part of a "wedding present" or have another relative give them the negs as a present by paying you for them.

 

(Note: I'm not a professional wedding photographer [or a professional of any kind], these are just one amateur's opinions)

Are you doing them a favor? or working for them?

 

If the latter, then give them the negatives. Your time and negatives can be a wedding gift. If you're working for them, the price is too cheap.

 

Why are you hung up on keeping the negatives? Are you expecting to profit from the couple's reprints; use the images for self-promotion? I'm sure they'll let you print all you want from them.

 

I'd suggest either pricing the wedding as a job, and include the price for which you would sell the negatives, or do it as a favor and give them the negatives in a nicely wrapped gift box.

You have not said whether you are a pro wedding photographer. If so, either donate your time and the film and negatives as a wedding present, or charge your normal fees and offer another gift entirely. It puts you in a rather awkward position if you choose or are impelled to make a gift of your livelihood.

If you were a very high-priced surgeon, would you give them a free operation as a wedding present? Or perhaps just charge them the anaesthetist's fees?

Oops, did I say "if the latter" ? I meant "former": if you're doing them a favor, give them the negatives..................

In this case it isn't that important although I wonder about their motives for having the negs. Generally you should write up a contract for jobs like this with all specifics spelled out so there is no confusion. I think there are websites with sample forms otherwise I know of one book; "Legal Forms for Photographers".

 

Try to avoid any arguments that may be a long term problem but firmly explain that typically the wedding photographer keeps the negs to "control the quality of his/her work". If they insist on the negs, renegotiate a different price or scale back on your coverage of the event.

Let the young cousin shoot it for free with the groom's P&S. If

you want to take a few snaps for fun, go ahead and do that for

free. If they don't want you at the wedding because you refuse to

subsidize the cost of their ceremony, don't go.

I wouldn't give the negatives. If you do, any prints made without your supervision will construed as being made by you.Your reputation could be ruined when they make a cheap copy and shown to others.

 

 

I tell my relatives that any negatives need to be properly stored (they do!) and if they want copies I make them for them at cost so I can guarantee the quality.

Why get hung up on copyright issues surrounding negatives, especially in an age where digital is becoming the norm? You own the copyright on the images regardless of whether or not you have the negatives in your possession.

 

You have to decide where you are going to make your money--up front or in reprints. If up front, you can name your fee, shoot the job, provide proofs, and give the negatives to the groom to have enlargements made--job done, hassle completed. If you're trying to make money from reprints, then--as a matter of practicality--you'll need to keep the negatives.

 

You may find that, down the road, the negatives are of little value to you. They take up space in your apartment. How many prints will you make from them for your own use? What happens when you move to another city, or abandon wedding photography? Why not just give them to the couple, who will always value them more than you will?

 

It's part of the alarmist culture of photo.net that giving up your negatives represents some huge, irredeemable transgression.

Definitely a tricky situation.

 

There are lots of other photography costs that I'm sure you'll be pulling out of your pocket (batteries, tear and wear, possibly rental of a spare camera), plus a bunch of other costs, monetary or not (driving to the lab, editing the pictures, possibly putting together an album).

 

The "best" solution may be for you to shoot out of your pocket, and to offer them an album as their wedding present. If they want more prints, they'll have the negatives from the young cousin, and they'll have to option of asking you for something decent.Notice that the young cousin will probably get much better pictures if you also shoot than if you don't (you'll be applying some knowledge that he won't even have but will be able to benefit from).

 

At my own wedding, lot of people took pictures with cameras of various quality, and we also had a pro photog. I kept a full album for myself, and a number of guests ordered 8x10s from the pro (who had prints ready before the end of the reception).

 

Tell them that it's standard practice for an artist to not give his raw or intermediate materials. Normally, the cost of all that is hidden under the price for the final work. You are doing them a huge favor already by only charging them for the price of the materials.

Folks, as noted in the original question, the groom is so cheap he thinks that the cost of film and processing is an unfair price for wedding coverage--there isn't going to be any profit from this wedding! If someone places absolutely no value on what you do as a photographer, avoid working with them.

I agree with Mike Dixon. You are doing them the favor....and favors are done at the giver's discretion............not vice versa.

I find the groom's attitude quite graceless, but agree with the other posters who suggest that you define your role in the scenario. If your photography is a gift, or a favor, then the negatives should be a part of it. If it were me, I'd insist on giving them the film directly from the camera to do with as they pleased, and be done with it. If it's a job, it's a job, and all the usual rules apply. At this point, I'm afraid no good can come of it. I hope for your sake, that I'm wrong.

I quit doing weddings over ten years ago but I'd just about decided that if I was to continue I'd devise a system whereby the customer signed a release and took the negatives and proofs. All I'd charge would be a service fee for my professional expertise. The problem is that once you decide to archive the negatives yourself then you are responsible for them for the rest of your life!! That's true. If the bride or groom, or both, are killed in an auto accident 20 years after the wedding and MOM decides she just HAS to have an 11X14 of them on their wedding day then you damned well BETTER have the negative and you damned well BETTER be able to find that one image that she ABSOLUTELY remembers being taken on that special day twenty years earlier. Even if you win in court, it'll cost you an arm and a leg. DON'T keep negatives. Get your money up front and walk away from the responsibility.

"Even if you win in court, it'll cost you an arm and a leg. DON'T

keep negatives."

 

There are some legitimate arguments to be made for selling the

negatives, but I think the risk of being sued twenty years from

now by a grieving relative who must have an enlargement

qualifies as the silliest one I've ever heard.

Erb: how about telling them that they provide the film, you'll shoot it, and they'll have it processed wherever they want. Estimate how much film you'll need, ask them for that much. This way, it's their film, and it's all their problem.

 

Recommend a good film and a good lab, but give them the choice of what they eventually choose.

 

Make it clear that you offer absolutely no guarantee.

 

Did you plan to shoot with 2 cameras? If yes, you need to tell them about the fact that you'll need twice as much film. If not, you need to make it extra clear that there's an increased risk that your gear may be faulty and that they may end up with no pictures.

I'm with Mike Dixon on this one. I wouldn't work for this guy, no matter who he is... If you can't get past the planning stage, what do you think will happen during and after the wedding? I wouldn't even go to the wedding at this point, certainly not with a camera, as you're certain to be accosted and pressed into service. If you're close enough to the couple to be invited (even if you weren't a photographer), you could offer to contribute to the hiring of a wedding photographer, and ask "everyone else" to contribute as well.<p> This is a good reason to shoot wedding digitally; you can sell them the "negatives" and still keep the "negatives"... t <p>I wonder whose catering? and providing flowers? and the tux? is the minister related? maybe the kid can read the vows, too... t

"the groom is so cheap he thinks that the cost of film and processing is an unfair price for wedding coverage" Why, oh why, isn[t the bride and her side picking the photographer?

 

 

 

A simple solution: have a good lab make a CD of all the images (for the photographer to retain) and then give up the negatives. But, insist that the groom use his credit card to order the _____ rolls of good film for the wedding, so he knows that $5.95 per roll of decent print film is not the same as the Polaroid 'good' stuff at Wal-mart.

Your idea of "cost" is low enough as it is, and whatever your reason for keeping the negatives (you may simply want them as an example to yourself of what you can do) wanting to keep them is perfectly fair. Your offer is a favour to them.

 

If they don't like it, let them have their P&S shots and forget about your disagreements.

 

And do go to the wedding. Don't think for a moment about the photographs while there, just have a good time. If they invited you just to get a cheap photographer, they deserve to have the (rather limited) expense of an extra serving with nothing to show for it. If not, they'd want you there despite any small differences over negatives.

It's highly unlikely that the groom would see paying $5.95 per roll

of film as a form of education about the real costs of shooting a

wedding; it's much more likely that he'll see it as you trying to

"stick him" for giving you a hard time. You'd only end up with

more resentment.

 

Cut your losses now. It'll be easier to recover from any hard

feelings generated so far than it will be to get through and

recover from all the pointless bullsh*t you're almost guaranteed

to face if you agree to shoot the wedding.

I don't know, if you�re shooting for cost, your shooting it for nothing, right? If you would agree to shoot it for nothing in the first place why would you want to keep the negs? Do you really want to be bothered getting involved with putting together the album, and ordering reprints ad infinitum?

 

On occasion I use to shoot weddings for a flat fee, plus the cost of film and proofs. As part of the service I would label the back of the proof with the roll number, neg number and then hand the whole thing over to the bride and she was off to the photo lab. Simple, easy.

There were a lot of good responses. I take the side of those who say shoot it and forget about the negatives. While is is desirable to bag out of the shoot, the family will see the crud that the young cousin produces with the point & shoot and you'll be blamed in perpetuity.

 

If you go forward the answer really lies in the first line of your post. You agreed to do the shoot for cost. Why on earth would you care about the negatives then?

The best thing to do would be to estimate your costs add on a little for extra stuff like

batteries, wear and tear on equipment, and a few bucks for the trouble and giving up

almost all chance of having fun. Give them a low rate a little above cost, it is better

not to tell what cost is. Then Give them the negatives after you make what prints you

want.

 

At this point I would suggest you tell them to buy the film. Suggest they get good

fast pro film. He will probably buy cheap stuff though. Don't take any money let

them pay for everything themselves. Give the film to his parents at

the end of the night and don�t ask what they look like later.

Shawn, One of your paragraphs suggests a solution while the other suggests something totally inconsistent.