SHOOTING WEDDING

<p>Hello, I have a few questions about wedding photography equiptment. Do you think it is possible to present a very good work shooting with a couple of REBELS XTi? I have a set of three prime lenses: 100/2.8 50mm/1.8 and 2.8/ 1.8<br>

I will be shooting a wedding next month, I want to know your opinion about buying a 24-70/2.8 lenses or a 5D body. What all you guys think?<br>

thanKS in advance for you time, advise and HELp<br>

HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY</p>

<p>I very much advise a fast zoom. I use a 28-105 f 2.8. I sometimes wish for that extra width you'll have in the 24-70, but I've also found it importan to have that extra tightness on the other end.<br>

I use Nikon equipment, so I don't know the specifications of the XTi, but having a body that gives you low grain at 1600 and 3200 is important.</p>

<p>I recommend you give this wedding to a professional... it sounds as though you've never shot a wedding before and this is not the way to learn...</p>

The gear that you have is fine, really, it's OK. More important is having backup gear and the knowledge about how to use it. A more expensive camera or lens will not translate to better images unless you have the knowledge base to exploit the improvements over less expensive gear.</p>

<p>I would suggest that you invest your money in training, you can start with some instructional DVDs, also as I told you a few weeks ago, see if you can 2nd shoot for an established pro for awhile, find a mentor, network with local pros, get some pro training, and join WPPI and/or PPA.</p>

<p>The problem with the primes is that if you're in the wrong position or you can't physically move closer or farther away you'll be forced to shoot what ever angle of view you're given or miss an important shot all together while you're trying to reposition yourself. An experienced shooter will be able to better anticipate the appropriate time to use a certain prime. Formals lend themselves best to primes because you have the time to compose the shot.</p>

<p>To simplify things get a zoom and use a quality flash. Like many will say its the technique and knowing what to look for that are more important than the equipment.</p>

<p>The point of a forum is to ask questions so that you can... LEARN, and BOUNCE IDEAS off of seasoned professionals who already have been there done that.<br>

I think Esmeralda's question was a good one. I also think it's not very constructive to tell her to "turn this job over to a professional". <br>

She is a professional (she's getting paid to shoot a wedding), just not at the same level as some on this site. You have to start somewhere and many more out there like her need to get the answers and not discouragement. </p>

 

<p>1) I think it is possible to present a good set of wedding images using XTis.</p>

<p>2) Your prime lenses are fine, except you lack a wide angle. 28mm is equivalent to 45mm full frame.</p>

<p>3) Whether to buy a 24-70mm or 5D is up to you. Are you a pro wedding photographer? Or going to be? If so, then either one is a plus. If not, I'd get some wide focal length, like maybe the Canon 20mm, and shoot the wedding with primes. If you have 2 camera bodies, use both at once, put 2 lenses of differing focal lengths, one on each, depending upon the situation. It does help to have experience so you can anticipate the action. The most critical part regarding this is the ceremony, depending upon the 'rules' of the church. You can go to the rehearsal to know in advance where you should be for what. Otherwise, I don't think having a fast zoom is 'necessary', particularly if you aren't going to make this your career. In fact, most primes are faster than zooms.</p>

<p>It's not the equipment as much as the skill of the person behind the camera. If you have never shot a wedding before you are not qualified to go solo. On the job training it not for not good for weddings.</p>

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<p ><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=5089550">George Witte</a> , Apr 20, 2009; 02:15 p.m.<br>

The point of a forum is to ask questions so that you can... LEARN, and BOUNCE IDEAS off of seasoned professionals who already have been there done that.<br /> I think Esmeralda's question was a good one. I also think it's not very constructive to tell her to "turn this job over to a professional". <br /> She is a professional (she's getting paid to shoot a wedding), just not at the same level as some on this site. You have to start somewhere and many more out there like her need to get the answers and not discouragement.</p>

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<p>Good point. I often see more experienced members bristling at the idea of an inexperienced person shooting a wedding. Obviously the client knows full well that he/she doesn't have much experience but is trying to save money. While a seasoned professional will give better results, an amateur will often produce results that satisfy the client. You may disagree with the decision but its the client's not your decision. So what's the point of discouraging a beginner.</p>

<p>Of course you can get great results with the equipment that you have if you know how to use it. If you have taken a booking for a wedding from a paying customer then you must already know what your equipment is capable and how to get the best from it you have wedding images on your website so you have used the equipment before I assume. Now whether a 5D or a 24-70 2.8 zoom will fit you better thats something that you would have to decide. I personaly feel it is easier to shoot some things with a zoom so you don't get stuck with the wrong lens at the wrong time but other times a prime works better.</p>

<p>I don't see how we can tell whether Esmeralda is a professional or not, since she doesn't say so either way. In any case, I just answer the question(s). The only point I made about being a professional is because it impacts purchasing decisions. It is valid to question a person about being ready to photograph a wedding professionally if it is obvious that person IS billing him or herself as a pro AND it is obvious from the question or responses that he or she is confused or ill prepared. In a gentle way, of course. Otherwise...</p>

<p>You did not say what kind of flash you are using, and if you have more than one in case the first one fails you.<br>

If you only have the flash that is on the cameras, you can not do a wedding with these; they do not have the power needed to do weddings.</p>

<p>Thank you Peter Cofran & George Witte. I asked the question because I feel a little confused and want to know the opinion of you ( photographers with YEARS of experience) it is very sad that some of you discourage and critique someone who just have a few month in the business. You all were at that point once...<br>

So thank you so much to all of you who answer my question :)</p>

<p><em>"Is (it) possible to present a very good work shooting with a couple of REBELS XTi? . . .(and) a set of three prime lenses: 100/2.8 50mm/1.8 and 2.8/ 1.8"</em><br /><br />Yes, but you lack the wide - you would need to be skilled at arrangement for the large formals and also some shots would be compromised, especially indoors or other tight situations. On your APS-C format bodies, I think you really need wide to 17mm / 18mm: a 20mm Prime would suffice, with skill. <br /><br />***<br /><br /><em>"I will be shooting a wedding next month, I want to know your opinion about buying a 24-70/2.8 lenses </em><strong><em>OR </em></strong><em>a 5D body." </em><br /><br />Purchasing the 5D is the far better long term business choice and also the better practical purchase just for this Wedding. <br /><br />If you purchase a 5D you will have a dual format kit. You immediately leverage your lens cache: - i.e. your three prime lenses provides equivalent 135 format FoV: 28mm, 45mm; 50mm; 85mm 100mm and 160mm. – you instantly gain the wide you did not have, not to mention the High ISO capacity and other advantages. <br /><br />There is little, if any advantage in purchasing a 24 to 70 <em><strong>only, </strong></em>considering you would still be working with a pair of Rebels, you only gain the facility / convenience of a zoom . . . granted that is a gain, but a more logical zoom lens purchase would be the EF-S 17 to 55F/2.8IS if only one (a lens) or the other (a camera body) is to be purchased.<br>

<br />In regard to fast zooms being generally "necessary" . . . just addressing lens speed - Primes will always be faster than zooms in any FL catagory - that point, I think has already been made . . . you have fast primes. Zooms offer convenience, not speed, per se.<br /><br />*** <br /><br /><em>"someone who just have a few month in the business"</em><br /><br />IMO, you need to think beyond this next Wedding and begin to design a kit which will allow you to develop your business and also allow you to competently address all manner of likely scenarios, within the broad style you wish to develop, or already have.<br /><br />As a 5D has been mentioned, and assuming your lenses are Canon EF mount: I suggest you interrogate the values of building dual format camera kit. Granted this is a passionate point to me, as I have a specifically designed dual format kit for Wedding Coverages. If you follow this route, it is likely you will find the EF24 to 70F/2.8L becomes superfluous to needs, as the EF16 to 35MkIIF/2.8L and EF70 to 200F/2.8L(IS or not) combine to give an appropriate, fast zoom compass.<br /><br />*** <br /><br />One issue which is important to understand is that when covering a Wedding with three Primes and two bodies (as is the premise of your question): Efficiency is absolutely necessary in: the ability to <strong><em>use two bodies</em></strong>; <strong><em>predict</em></strong> lens requirements; and be able to <strong><em>change lenses quickly</em></strong>, whilst moving.<br /><br />If one chooses a dual format kit the skill of using two bodies is still a very valuable trait: even when two Zoom lenses are being used. (e.g. consider the coverage and speed working 5D + 70 to 200F/2.8L and REBEL + 16 to 35F/2.8L)<br /><br />But, with a dual format kit, I find I am often using a Zoom on one camera and a Prime on the other, or Primes on both. So it is still very valuable to have the skill of prediction and the capacity to change lenses quickly. This style of working does not suit all. <br /><br />*** <br /><br />You have not mentioned Flash – even if one endeavours to never use Flash, it is prudent business to have at least two at every Wedding (and sufficient power also).<br /><br />*** <br /><br />Do not assume that this detailed post of mine, because it is solely regarding gear, suggests I believe that gear is the answer, it is part of the answer. Getting flying hours as an apprentice is still the best method of entre, my opinion I offer unsolicited, with kindness only. <br /><br />That said, and returning to the matter of gear: You should consider carefully how you want to work and what work you will do and let that decide what gear you buy, not the other way around. And do not fall into the trap of believing there are “must have” lenses . . . or cameras. <br /><br />WW <br /><br>

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Darn, WW took the very words out of my mouth ;-) Just kidding! As usual, between WW, Nadine and the other 'usual suspects' on the wedding forum, you've pretty much got great advice. I'll just add that I shoot weddings on my XTi. Planning to get a 5D MarkII later this year. Right now my backup is a film EOS 500N (how's that for dual-format^2). As has been said, it's not the equipment so much but the skill and technique with which it is used. I would reiterate that you'll likely need a lens to cover the wide end of things. Also, get a flash and read about flash techniques on http://www.planetneil.com/tangents

<p>"..it is very sad that some of you discourage and critique someone who just have a few month in the business. You all were at that point once..."</p>

<p>Actually, in the past it was rare that new shooters would setup shop without having undergone some sort of an apprenticeship. More commonly, people would assist/shoot with an established studio while they learned the basics of exposure, photographic techniques, and the business-end of operating a studio. When I started everything was film and the initial investment in equipment was much more substantial than it is now. An established studio would never send a newbie to take the primary/sole responsibility for shooting a once in a lifetime event. Before starting/shooting for my own studio I had shot a couple of hundred weddings for a couple of different studios......yes, during my intital months I was asking many of the same basic questions but by the time I was shooting lead or solo the basics were taken care of. All too often, new shooters discount the knowledge base and experience of professional photographers. Photgraphy looks alot easier than it actually is....shooting a wedding typically looks alot easier than it is.</p>

<p>I wouldn't say very good work, but it would be decent. I'd get yourself the 5D body, and then you'll have your XT's as backups until you can get a Mark2 or a 1-series body. The lenses you have should cover you just fine so I wouldn't invest in the other one.</p>

<p>Esmeralda,<br>

With today's sophisticated equipment, it's more important to work on "what" to shoot rather than "how" to shoot it. You need to be prepared, so as I've said before, begin to attend seminars, workshops and join a professional photographers association. You'll get great advice, learn alot and be able to network for referrals and backup when necessary. Good luck....-Aimee<br>

PS where about are you located?</p>

<p><em><strong>"...shooting a wedding typically looks alot easier than it is." (etc . . . on a theme)</strong></em><br>

<br>

With >1500 under my belt: it would be un-professional me not to have made a cursory mention of this viewpoint which I also hold: hence I did. <br>

<br>

Solid advice, born from experience, sweat and mistakes, which is genuinely and politely given, even though it might be unsolicited, should not be interpreted as <em >“discouraging and critiquing someone”</em> . . . in my opinion it is taking time out, usually at a $ cost, to offer assistance, though it might not have been directly or initially sought. </p>

<p>I suggest you look at it this way: it is a value add to answering the question . . .<br>

<br>

One should be very careful of the advice one takes on board from internet forums, as I have already mentioned: the gear is only part of it. <br>

<br>

WW</p>

<p>I will agree with the skill is in the person, not the camera. I could shoot a wedding with a Pentax K1000 35mm, good lens & flash & it be as good as any on this site, barring the trend to photoshop every photo.</p>

<p>What david and WW said. 100%.</p>

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<p>Agreement with one’s views is always nice to receive, but note that greater than 95% of my effort and output was to address the lens / gear question. <br>

I do sincerely think it is important for those with a few flying hours up to "value add", when appropriate. <br>

Regarding training; learning; getting experience and networking, I find I my thoughts are consistently aligned with David Schilling's views - and I do not hide from that viewpoint, nor can I ignore my Professional need, to offer that advice. <br>

But it is important that these “value add” comments, do not unintentionally steer the thread into an oblivion . . . <br>

The question is the question, which kinda sets the guidelines. <br>

I have come to appreciate that is a better way, generally, as I was one who originally believed in a "open forum", as such: it is indeed better, on the whole to stick to the basic premise of the question. <br>

WW</p>

 

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<p>Just to clarify, my intent is not to discourage new shooters but to encourage them to become professional shooters through training and networking. I also don't have any issues with hobbyists taking shots at a wedding or providing coverage for B/Gs who do not have the budget for a professional. IMO, Newcomers who have a price list and web-based storefront should be held to professional standards, regardless of their experience level.</p>