Shooting expired film help

Hi there

 

I have some old film that expired 10 years ago. To compensate I stepped the ISO down , after shooting and developing the scans are super whited out but clearly the image is there, what does this mean and how can I compensate to get better results? I have 10 more rolls of the same film from the same batch so any help much appreciated, I don't want them going to waste.

 

Also, any other tip for a newbie who is playing around like this please do tell.

 

 

Best,

 

 

Scott

What type of film is it and what type of camera are you using it in?

 

Perhaps more importantly, have you shot fresh(unexpired), known good film in the camera before with usable results?

 

Is it possible for you to show a photo of the negatives? Holding them up to a window and snapping a photo with a cell phone can provide a lot of information.

I have found, even with film much older than yours, that I do best to start shooting at the rated ISO, especially with B&W film.

 

More information is needed on what film, and what camera, for sure.

Yes, you have to make sure the camera is properly working and the shutter speeds within tolerance (usually 6-20%) of stated speed. Once you have a handle on that a good test is to use 1 roll as a sacrificial roll. Properly meter your exposure and then shoot a series of bracketed exposures to determine the appropriate ISO to use (I'd use -1, 0, +1, +2, +3 for the series. If the film hasn't been exposed to high heat and/or humidity, it is probably fine to use (I do it all the time). But you may need to determine a good working ISO and have a consistent development process.

Hi there

 

I have some old film that expired 10 years ago. To compensate I stepped the ISO down , after shooting and developing the scans are super whited out but clearly the image is there, what does this mean and how can I compensate to get better results? I have 10 more rolls of the same film from the same batch so any help much appreciated, I don't want them going to waste.

 

Also, any other tip for a newbie who is playing around like this please do tell.

 

 

Best,

 

 

Scott

Well, there is no definitive answer.

There is more to consider than just age.

"Film".......they are not all the same where longevity is concerned, and then there is the variable of how and where it was stored.

I started shooting in 1977. There i still a lot i do not know, but my Experience/Opinion....... unless there is a real reason to shoot this stuff, you would be less "wasteful" if you simply used this as dead film, which are actually handy to have around for a few reasons.

 

If you are a "Newbie" regards old film.... OK. There is all kinds of info at the tips of your keyboard

If you are new to photography..... forget this stuff and shoot with a Known/New film and developer.

Good Luck

Hi there

 

Ah yes I see how this information could be rather useful. Clearly I am new at this haha. OK so I am using an Olympus OM4 and using Kodak Ektachrome 64T it actually expired in 2003 so 17 years old!

 

Example of an image below

 

Normally my film comes out great, i set the iso and in auto its always fine, think the cameras doing a lot of the heavy lifting there but this film seems way more tricky.

 

I also develop with cinestill's color chemicals and normally its excellent.

Whited out slide = overexposure.

film that expired 10 years ago. To compensate I stepped the ISO down , after shooting and developing the scans are super whited out but clearly the image is there, what does this mean and how can I compensate to get better results?

I have found, even with film much older than yours, that I do best to start shooting at the rated ISO

Expired color stuff means: Expect your colors to be way off. - What else? C41 cross processing for some extra fun with weirdness?

With a first sample roll off an old brick or more of slide film, I would try to figure out how to treat that stuff with bracketing. I have no clue how to vary E6 (substitute?) processing to compensate for film age. so I guess a good idea about it is to just do it as usually.

 

How much did you overexpose? 2 stops? if so try next roll as rated and maybe minimal over exposure between that and what you did with the roll you are showing. Good luck & have fun

You do realise that Ektachrome 64T is balanced for tungsten lighting @ 3200K do you? That's what the T suffix means.

 

If you shoot it in daylight without an 85B filter, then you'll get the blue cast that's seen in your sample above. Which is also overexposed by about a stop-and-a-half I'd estimate. Co-incidentally, that's the same as the factor for an 85B filter.

Ah yes reading up on this stuff a bit now. I really appreciate your help here. I don't have any filters at all yet and actually I will need to google everything you have all said haha but thats great for me and part of the learning process so this is great learning experience.

 

I will try this film at the exact same ISO it states and then more out of daylight. I will let you know how the next roll goes, really appreciate your help gang!

In addition to the fact that it's a tungsten balanced film as stated above, I'll also add:

 

I still generally shoot expired slide film at its rated(box) speed. If it's fogged to unacceptable levels, it's probably just not useable(unless you want to experiment with cross processing). The nature of slide film/the process is that overexposing, in my experience, doesn't generally help anything and in fact can hurt.

 

That's speaking as someone who regularly shoots 15+ year old slide film and usually with good results depending on how the film has been stored over the years.

All is not lost...you can post op converting to B&W

OK wow, this is all so helpful. Thanks so much!

Hi there

 

Ah yes I see how this information could be rather useful. Clearly I am new at this haha. OK so I am using an Olympus OM4 and using Kodak Ektachrome 64T it actually expired in 2003 so 17 years old!

(snip)

 

There is a common suggestion to increase the exposure, usually setting a lower EI value

on the meter, for older film. Some suggest one stop per decade.

 

Negative films, especially color negative films, have a large latitude for overexposure.

The recommended (box) speed allows for about one stop underexposure, and about two

or three stops overexposure. They do this by having a gamma (contrast) a little less

than one, or a lot less (about 0.5) for color negative films. This has to be corrected in

printing (or scanning) such that the result is a little more than the original.

 

Reversal (slide) films don't have this, because there is no printing stage to correct.

Such films have a gamma (actually, absolute value of gamma) a little more than one.

In-date slide films don't like overexposure, even just a little bit, as the result is

about like what you got. Normally, they can stand some underexposure, though the

result is dark, and not so easy to see when projected. Normally when I use slide films,

I will round the f/stop setting down for a slight underexposure.

 

Old slide films might have age fog, which means that blacks aren't so black as

they should be. Underexposure will make things worse. Overexposure is about

the same as overexposure for new film, which is a light image as you show.

 

Best chance with slide film is box speed, though the results are often not good.

 

Most often I expose black and white negative film at box speed, though tend to

round up the exposure when I can.

 

 

 

 

This is on Vericolor II, VPL, which is a tungsten balanced C41 negative film. The film hasn't been made for some

years, so it might be 20 years old. It was in a Brownie 2 model F, which is a box camera about 90 years old,

with one shutter speed and three aperture settings, of about f/16, f/22, and f/32. I have shots both with and without

filter. I believe this is with filter, but maybe not. The color is a little off, likely because of the age.

 

Best is to avoid slide film, but if you have enough rolls, expose one at box speed, and if it works

out well, use the rest. If not, keep them on the shelf for show only. I also had rolls of TMax100 an TMax400

in this camera.

I may be wrong, but I think new shooters ought to use unexpired film. Otherwise, you'll never know whether you;re making mistakes in shooting techniques but missing the errors due to weird results caused by expired film. If you shoot "good" film, you'll be confident that any weird results are the photographer's errors and not caused by old film. Save playing with expired film once you understand basic photography.

When I was younger, it was usual for camera stores to have a box of recently expired film,

and I would often check for ones that I might use. It would go in that box just after the month

and year on the box.

 

Not so many years ago, I got a 100 foot roll of PanF+ recently outdated from a nearby

store, kept refrigerated but still half price. That is rare, as they try not to stock so much that

they can't sell by the date.

 

Kept at normal room temperature, color film should be fine for a year or so past the date,

and even 10 years for black and white film, and exposed at box speed.

 

The OP made the worst choice, using slide film, and then even more, overexposing it.

The color layers of color film age differently, so it often comes out off color.

On the other hand, with a slower speed film like 64T, the chances are much better than

a faster film.

 

Kept a low room temperature, E64T might not be so bad at 17 years. He has 9 more

rolls to try!

I may be wrong, but I think new shooters ought to use unexpired film. Otherwise, you'll never know whether you;re making mistakes in shooting techniques but missing the errors due to weird results caused by expired film. If you shoot "good" film, you'll be confident that any weird results are the photographer's errors and not caused by old film. Save playing with expired film once you understand basic photography.

I 100% agree but if you have it lying around it seems a waste not to use it even if its just for some kind of practice. I haven't tried anymore yet but will be at box speed once I get the chance. Also its honestly just super fun and one of things that makes film so much more interesting than digital. Saying this using unexpired is a very good ideas for beginners such as I.

After one roll, you are not "new" anymore.

 

Note that "new" film that has been sitting in the hot sun for an hour is likely to give bad results,

and "old" film that has been frozen since "new" will likely give good results.

 

When I get a "new" (to me) camera, I try it at different shutter speeds and judge that they

sound about right. I can almost time 1 second, and successively faster speeds should sound

appropriately faster. It is a little harder to test lenses, as the aperture on many can get

stuck and not close down appropriately. If I do use old film, I try to use film that I know

isn't too fogged, especially if it came off a bulk roll that I have used before.

 

If your first roll of unknown state is used in a camera of unknown state, you won't know if any

problems are due to film or camera. After using different old films, I have found that Tri-X is

pretty good to 20 years, Verichrome Pan to 40 years, and Panatomic-X to 50 years, assuming

normal room temperature storage in factory sealed packaging.

 

Because of the higher processing costs, I am more careful with old color film. I have some

refrigerated since I bought it. Negative film costs less to process, so I am more likely to

use it, but it also costs less to buy, so the cost of not using it is less.

This has been an educational thread for me. I shoot a lot of expired film, - most of it to test cameras I'm fixing. And though I'm not the most experienced in the world I've been doing it long enough that if something doesn't turn out I can usually determine whether it was a camera problem or an old film problem. I'm still learning though.

 

I've yet to process any slide film. I have a couple of rolls that I got with some other expired film. I shot one roll and it's been sitting in the fridge for 3 years. I had plans to buy some new slide film, shoot that, and then get some E6 chemicals. Then I'd process the expired roll.

 

Hasn't happened.

 

So now I'm wondering if I should just cross-process it. I don't have the camera anymore and only a vague idea of what the pictures were of. That's part of what makes film fun !

 

I'd still like get an old slide projector. I've got an old projector screen in great shape. So I haven't ruled out shooting some real slide film.

E6 kits are about $40 for 8 rolls, but should probably be used within a year.

 

Mix up 8oz for two rolls in a session.

 

Lab near me does E6 for $10/roll.

(Extra for mounting, but the kit doesn't mount them for you, so it

is a fair comparison.)

 

So, breakeven is at four rolls/year. It sounds like you are

less than that.

 

I did two E6 kits about 40 years ago, both for fun and for the lower cost.

My current rate is less than a roll per year, so I have the lab do them.

 

Projectors are easy to find at stores like Goodwill, though I still have

mine from 40 years ago.

Thanks Glen.

 

If I were to do it, I'd probably get a few rolls of slide film with a kit just to try it out and for the experience. What would be really great would be medium format slides if I could find a projector that wasn't extremely expensive. Not likely though and I'd never use it enough to justify the cost.

Some years ago, I saw a medium format projector at an estate sale,

but didn't buy it.

 

I don't have any medium format slides, and don't plan to have any, though I might have

bought it for a low price, shot one roll of slides, and then viewed them.

 

You might find one for a low price, but then would have to add shipping costs.

 

It seems that there is a 16oz kit, four rolls worth, for $30.

 

If you want even more fun, I think there is an E4 kit on eBay.

More steps, longer times, and the chemicals might not be good anymore.

 

I once bid (low) on an E2 kit, but didn't win that one.