Shoot Out: Immediate Observations & A Question

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by fotografz, Jun 29, 2003.

  1. First, hats off to Roger for this fun (hopefully friendly) shoot out. A question: How many images is each person allowed to post? If only one can it be one digital and one M? Anyway, it got me out into my own city to shoot., instead of waiting to visit LA or NYC. Well, not where I live exactly, but into Detroit. I tried my town, and after an hour got 3 shots total (see above pic of my Sleepyville main street ), so I went into the city. Admission to Jay: despite all my claims of being able to pick up any digital camera and use it in minutes, during my shoot I went brain dead and couldn't figure out how to quickly set the aperture lower. I remembered, but after the shot disappeared. I also had a couple of shots where the AF locked on the distant wall and I missed those also. Won't make those mistakes again, but ... Used a M7 .085 with 50/1.4 and 90/2.8...Contax TVSD...Canon G5. I did not use flash for any shots even though it was dark and rainy in Detroit. Flash just didn't seem like a valid "Street Shooting" style to me. Some observations: The G5 has a great street shooting feature: the tilt-out screen allows you to look the other way. So, while seemingly fiddling with your camera you can capture totally candid shots of people right next to you. Not one person had a clue I was doing this. Both the G5 and TVSD are really demure in size and weight, which made them hard to hold steady in lower light. Hyper focal distance focusing with the M wasn't an option due to the low light and rainy gloom. So, focusing was a bit difficult on the fly. Besides, I often wanted to use the 50/1.4 advantage to isolate the subjects. IMO, both digitals need the screen turned off, and you need to use the tiny dim finders if you want a fighting chance to overcome shutter lag. I missed a lot of shots at first due to the camera locking the focus on the screen, with the action continuing before the thing fired. The M kills the digitals in this respect IMO. I got 45 keepers that I processed between the 2 digitals, with maybe 1/4 of those worth considering for this shoot out. I have 2 1/2 rolls of B&W shot with the M, mostly with the 50mm. Those results remain to be seen. Regardless of what happens with the "Shoot Out", I'm going to make a seperate photo.net folder to place a bunch of these images. Thanks Roger, it's motivating and great fun.
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  2. I don't get it. Everybody would laugh if someone asked to have a shoot-out between a Leica M and a Canon Sure-Shot P&S. All the G5 is is a Sure-Shot with a digital sensor. Until there's a serious non-SLR digicam, meaning something with a decent-sized direct viewfinder, interchageable lenses, and full-time in-finder-confirmed manual focus and manual metering, and analog dials for the settings (in other words, at the very least a digital Contax G)it's just not a fair fight. And anyone who actually has better results with a (eg) Canon G5 than a Leica M, it proves only that an automatic camera can think better than that particular photographer.
     
  3. marc -- i am uncomfortable making rules, but i was thinking that
    we should do 3-5 per person per medium (unless we have way
    too many or way too few). that's just a thought. i guess the best
    thing is to leave it up to people's discretion. i don't think i have
    ever gotten more than a few "portfolio" quality street images in
    any four day period.

    jay -- again, this is an optional exercise. i actually feel bad
    because it seems like it is really bothering you that anybody is
    participating. i really mean that sincerely. remember, it's all in
    fun (and will be over soon). i hope you post some of your always
    excellent film images!!
     
  4. pcg

    pcg

    And I suggest, in all due courtesy, that Jay exempt himself from further G5-related
    comments. He's clearly predisposed to dissing the camera, though he's admitted
    using it once for less than an hour (& doesn't own one).

    The G5 is many things, but it's not your common "P&S." So this sort of comment is
    not helpful to anyone wondering what the hell this is all about. I'd say Jay's
    disqualified, until he admits to having used one over the course of a couple days.

    Now, onward!
     
  5. I don't really like this ' Leica v Digital' thing. Neither do i like 'contests'. It would seem to me just a showcase for the experienced photographers! Or someone trying to prove a something. However, i like photos. I just hope it does'nt turn into a another handbag contest.
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  6. My second entry..sorry about the blown out highlights.
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  7. Ooops needs cropping.
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  8. As far as I see it, this is just in fun. I'd do this because of just
    that. However, if someone proposed that I shoot a candid
    wedding with a Canon G5 or any other digital P&S, I would
    propose back to them that they had lost their senses. That
    makes it clearer don't you think?
     
  9. STATUS REPORT: I went out today with my M7 w/35mm 1.4 ASPH and a Nikon Cool Pix...admittedly a point and shoot. I had access to a friends Canon 1Ds, but as I said to Marc in an offline email, I couldn't stand walking around with something the size of a shoebox in front of my face.

    DIGITAL PRO's: For better or worse, I already know what I have. Pix are ready for level, curve and other adjustments. Zoom lens.

    DIGITAL NEGATIVES: Shu...tt...er.....L...ag. Ugh!!!

    M7 PRO's: Total control of any and all elements of pix. Even in bright sunlight, I have a good idea what my B&W negs are going to look like.

    M7 NEGATIVES: It'll be Wednesday before I know if anything is creatively any good (I have to use an outside lab. Three people asked me what kind of camera I was using. No one gave me a second glance when I had the Cool Pix up. That certainly is a comment on the state of "popular" photography.

    QUESTION: When we post, should we identify which is which...digital or negs? Or, let everyone guess?

    I'm looking forward to seeing everyone's stuff.
     
  10. I have a question too. I went out today to shoot some photos for the shootout, and was in a restaurant. The decor was 50's style diner (Ruby's, for those who know of it), and one of the waitresses had an incredible smile. There were several opportunities to either take a photo of the subject talking with another waitress, with the kitchen staff in action behind her, or ask her permission to take a photo of her at the cashier's. The whole time, I lacked the necessary resolve to take the photo, and it really kinda bummed me out the rest of the day. What method do you street shooters use to get over this internal conflict, to the point where you get your shot, especially if you generally tend towards the introverted side when it comes to strangers? Or are the successful street photographers here just naturally extroverted? Nonetheless, this idea was great since I actually got myself out there and shot some photos, even if they all turn out bad. Thanks!
     
  11. <<And I suggest, in all due courtesy, that Jay exempt himself from further G5-related comments. He's clearly predisposed to dissing the camera, though he's admitted using it once for less than an hour (& doesn't own one).

    The G5 is many things, but it's not your common "P&S." So this sort of comment is not helpful to anyone wondering what the hell this is all about. I'd say Jay's disqualified, until he admits to having used one over the course of a couple days.>>

    I'm not "dissing" the G5, it's superb at doing what it was designed for. But it is basically meant to be used as an AF P&S even though it is possible to use it manually, but certainly not with the ease of a Leica, and it lacks the capability to give shallow DOF for selective focus, which is an imnporant part of a serious camera. Just because it costs $600 doesn't make it any more capable than a $150 35mm P&S.

    My point was that a shoot-off between it and a Leica is not fair, and as of yet there is no digital equivalent of a Leica. And that's I think what's bugging everybody: we're all hoping that some digital camera will give us what our Leicas do when film runs out and Leica's still sticking to their "a digital M is impossible" story. But the G5, wonderful as it is, ain't it.
     
  12. Mark, it's like jumping in the water, just jump, then take the interaction as it comes. Don't allow fear to overwhelm you, use it as a charge to get you going. The more you do it the more interesting it becomes. If you have some successes it will help your confidence, and legitimize in your own mind what you're doing. Know your limitations, but keep testing them. Many people are flattered at the interest, or are just cool and go with the flow, and that can lead to good interaction. Even those who react negatively end up being an interesting experience. Most are so busy with what they're doing that they hardly notice you and your camera or don't notice at all. Often you can snap before anyone even knows what happened. But there's no one way to do it. Keeping a smile on your face goes a long way. A camera can be a great vehicle for getting out and exploring the world- I always have the attitude of just being curious about everything. Enjoy yourself and take chances, you'll be rewarded.
     
  13. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    The problem with this is that it will only prove what was already known - that some people here are photographers and some are equipment wankers. Maybe it's even worse than that - it will show that precious few people here are capable of good street photography. I can only think of four people here who consistently post good street photography (and I'm not talking about still lifes taken outdoors, which some people post as "street photography"). I would guess they could all take good street photos regardless of equipment. In the end, it won't prove anything, it would be a lot more useful to just start a new "street photography" thread.
     
  14. I actually agree with Jay that this comparison is not fair. It should compare fast DSLRs with the Leica Ms. It would be fairer to compare a Leica Minilux with a G5, if it comes to just comparing film and digital. Other than Jay, though, I like the idea of the shootout and regret I don't have the time this weekend to participate.<P>

    And Mark, I felt some of the same trepidations last week when I did some street shooting for the first time in a long time, esp. since my Canon 10D is not as small as a digicam or a Leica M. I was shooting in Chicago and found that people were either to much in a hurry to bother with me, didn't notice me in time to even care or liked the idea of having their picture taken. I ended up chatting with a few people after they noticed me. Digital is actually nice for that, because you can show them the picture you just took. There was one girl with a cool t-shirt that I saw walking by. I went up to her to ask if I could take her picture. She was fine with that and turned out to have a great smile. I once read that street photography is basically no problem as long as you're not sneaky and smile a lot. That has worked for me in Chicago, Illinois and earlier in Damascus, Syria.
     
  15. Nicely said, Ray.
     
  16. I took some photos in Sonoma CA today, and I think the project is interesting...kind of a mini "Day In The Life Of..."

    I find it difficult to categorize "street" photography. I do think many, if not most here, think in terms of people photography when using that term. I don't.

    I have one people photo in my basket for the project...and it's a Leica sighting at that!

    My interest in exploring a street is to look for the physical characteristics of the place...doors, walls, buildings, plants, signs, and such other "still life" subjects.

    Anyway, I am going to throw a few of those into the pot since that is what I like when I'm "on the street."

    I do hope no one cheats...that kind of spoils the concept.
     
  17. Hey!!! You're all correct. You can't compare a G5 to an M. No matter what cameras are used, some pictures will be good, some will suck. Contests like this prove nothing. No one can even agree on what "Street" photography is. But...SO WHAT! Take some pix. Have a good time. Post em. Or, don't. I see this as just a way to have more fodder for conversation. Isn't that what this is all about anyway? Talking/disputing/conflicting/learning with a bunch of folks who only have a couple vague but fun things in common...an interest in photography and a German camera.

    Thank you and have a nice day :>}
     
  18. Todd and Jake. The idea of classifying street photography as people for this project was to attempt to clarify digicam's ablility to match Leicas for what they are best known for, so called "decisive moment" photography. It's supposed to be a test of real or imagined issues such as shutter lag. Roger is being pretty laissez-faire in regard to enforcing rules, but if you're just going to do your own thing it doesn't really contribute to the original intent too much.
     

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