Sensor Damaged During Cleaning by Professional Dealer

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by amitc, Sep 4, 2011.

  1. I purchased a new Nikon D3s along with a few lenses from a Nikon Professional Dealer in London in May 2011. I spent a total of GBP 10,000 (USD 16000) with this dealer.
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    Last week I walked into the store to make a small purchase and the store was offering a free sensor clean on the purchase of GBP 100. My camera was NEW and the sensor may have had the one odd dust particle in the corner. And because the offering was free and this dealer was a Certified Professional Store (and one of the biggest in London), I decided to take up the offer and get the sensor cleaned.
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    The next day when I walked into the store to collect the camera, the store informed me that the sensor got damaged during the cleaning process. The chemicals used during cleaning went under the low pass filter and destroyed the sensor.
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    This was a brand new camera that cost me a fortune and I was devastated.
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    The store manager informed me that the camera would have to be sent to Nikon for an evaluation and for now they have given me an off-the-shelf (used camera) replacement as a loaner.
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    I am pretty adamant at this point that the dealer replace my camera with a new camera or give me a full refund.
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    What would you do if you were in my situation? I saved money for 4 years to make this purchase and this is a big loss for me. What's your advice on the below:
    a. If Nikon were to repair the camera and replace the sensor (at the dealers cost), would you accept the repaired camera back? Is the camera still considered new after a sensor replacement?
    b. Take legal action against the dealer if they offer the repaired camera?
    c. Start sending emails out to the company management (this is a large global company) and start escalating the issue and be firm about the fact that I will only accept a New camera as a replacement or ask for a refund.
    d. Start Blogging on public websites and the dealers social networking sites and disclose the company name and the damage they have caused (I have it from this dealer in writing that the camera was damaged during cleaning)
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    Appreciate your feedback.
     
  2. I would accept the repaired camera back if that's the way they go.
    The most reasonable thing is to insist that the dealer pay for the repair and never let them touch your sensor again. Demanding a new camera is probably not going to happen, and all you really want/need is your camera working perfectly, right?
    Don't trash-talk the dealer until you are sure they won't work with you.
     
  3. Sounds like the dealer is acting responsibly. Accidents happen. The camera was three months old. Unless the repair diminishes the functionality of the camera it would be difficult to argue successfully for a replacement with a new camera.
     
  4. While I get your grief and ager, I would take as first step: take a deeeeep breath, and give them a chance to settle this problem.
    To disclose: I work in (technical) support, in another industry, so I might have a slight bias, but I also learnt what does and does not work.
    And what does work best, in my view, is being reasonable. In having a loan unit available immediate, I think they are showing that they understand your need, and they are doing the right thing there. In handing you in writing they damaged your sensor, they are being very upfront and take their responsibility. Actually, as far as I can judge, the store is treating you very correct.
    Being very demanding towards them is not going to change much: they have their policies and if they are a big store, they've probably studied whether they are compliant with applicable consumer laws.
    Options B and D are only there if they completely fail to offer a proper solution; option C in my view is horribly overrated in being effective; as is option D - it could also backfire at you. Important to understand: one starts escalating when the offered solution isn't proper. Escalating as a near-first step makes you only come across as a very shouty, impatient and overly demanding customer. People will loose patience and goodwill that way - and that will not serve you.
    Which leaves option A. I would accept the camera back but be very very critical in inspecting it, and spend quite a lot of photos to ensure it's all OK again. And, if a repair is done right, why wouldn't it be as new again? And to be honest: the camera was not brand new, you used it for around 4 months. It is as new, and if the repair facility does its work right, it will be as new still.
    So, the point where you state: "I will only accept a New camera as a replacement or ask for a refund" - all OK, but I severly doubt the law will agree with you. Most EU consumer laws wouldn't, AFAIK.
    Personally, I think the store is treating you right, and you have to give them a chance to deliver their solution. If they fail to deliver, you still have ample means (options C and B combined) to get the situation resolved, but given what you described, you have no strong case against them at this very moment, as they are showing they are correcting their fault and accept responsibility.
     
  5. I'd ask for some sort of compensation at their expense which wouldn't immediately hit them financially.. a 25% discount coupon on a future purchase with no $$ limit, or a warranty extension on your D3, freight prepaid, or a 3 year accident coverage.... whichever's most bang for the buck for you. in addition to the perfectly repaired d3, of course
     
  6. Let the process play out before trashing them or threatening anything.
    If they come back and say - "We're not covering any of it" then look at choices, but for now they appear to be admitting that they caused a problem with it and are taking steps to fix the problem.
    They could have very easily handed the camera back to you saying there was nothing wrong with it then you taken it and shot with it and lost valuable images. At which point you would have been stuck trying to prove it wasn't something you did to the camera vs their cleaning.
    On the surface - they appear to be operating above board with you and while I understand that you wish they had just swapped it out with another new D3s - that's not the way most companies will work - if the damage is caused by an action vs a defect.
    To answer your specific questions in order:
    a) 1. Yes - If the repair was done by Nikon - I would accept it back. 2. The camera is considered used the moment you paid for it and removed it from the box. There is no reset on newness.
    b) No. Why? they've repaired your camera and fixed the problem they caused. I might send them an e-mail saying that they really need to teach their techs how to clean sensors.
    c) No.
    d) No.
    Dave
     
  7. Thank you everyone for your prompt response and your honest & detailed feedback.
    I agree that the dealer is acting in a professional manner; they are professionals who have been in the business for over 75 years.
    I met with a couple of professional photographers (who have been dealing with this dealer for 30 years), they feel I should fight for a replacement. They are certain that a camera that has had it's sensor replaced is not the same as a camera with an original sensor (I'm not sure how true that statement is).
    I'm relatively new into the field of photography and am not sure if, once the sensor is replaced, it would develop other issues (given that the sensor requires the taking apart and reassembling of the entire camera unit). So I do like the idea of asking for the accident coverage or the extended warranty as suggested by Indraneel.
    The dealer would be sending the camera over to Nikon this week. I guess Nikon's turnaround time in the UK is under 2 weeks. So it may be a few days before I know what the dealers response is to resolving this issue. I will keep this forum up-to date.
     
  8. Everyone seems to be a little too conciliatory today. I mean, an almost new (and very expensive) camera, they break it... and the best they can do is to send it off to Nikon for repair? You don't want a repaired camera unless you're the one who broke it. I sure wouldn't, anyway.
     
  9. I'd "get in their face" for a new camera. If that doesn't fly, I'd let them fix it. And I'd want a free loaner from them until they did.
     
  10. Hypothetically, if the sensor failed on its own at any time during the warranty period, Nikon's sole obligation is to repair/replace the sensor. As long as the new sensor will be covered for the remaining time under Nikon's originally warranty, what difference would it make?
     
  11. This is not a work of art where a repair could never be equal in all ways to the original piece. You have an electronic instrument. A new sensor properly installed by the manufacturer should perform exactly as a brand new camera performs. Your camera is just a tool to get a job done.
    While it is unfortunate you had to go through this experience, the dealer is doing everything they can to make things right.
     
  12. As Pierre says you can attempt to obtain a replacement camera, but I would suspect that is very unlikely to happen. In the meantime you will have wasted a lot of energy and got very upset to no avail.
    If you want to consider that route though, I would suggest you contact your local Trading Standards department and ask for their advice, you can also ask a solicitor for guidance. Many solicitors will give initial advice free of charge and I assure you, you will find one who will quite easily, you will then be clear over your legal position before making a decision on how to proceed.
    Whether the repaired camera is different to one with an original sensor is not an argument I can follow. If your camera sensor had failed due to amanufacturing defect, it is my understanding that if this had happened within the first 30 days after purchase you are entitled under law to a replacement or a full refund as the item was not of merchantable quality. If the failure is after 30 days you are only entitled to a repair. If the failure had happened whilst the camera was in your possession you would be in exactly thesame position as you are likely to be in now in having a repaired unit.

    I know the situation is not the same as having the camera damaged through somebody’s apparent negligence but in reality your situation is no different to having a warranty repair.
    As I have grown older I have found my attitude is somewhat more pragmatic, I now think of what I am likely to achieve if I push things. If you are advised by legal professionals that you are entitled to a replacement go down that route. If you are not entitled to a replacement consider how you approach the situation, by all means put forward your argument as to why the dealer should replace the camera, but if they are obviously not going to, bear in mind you will have the opportunity to forge ameaningful relationship with the dealer or completely destroy it.
     
  13. You could ask the store to extend the original warranty by four months (the time between your purchase and the return of the repaired camera to you), essentially resetting the original warranty. That is, if Nikon does not already do that as part of their repair warranty conditions. You could argue that the repair increases the risk of future problems for you. Within one year you would know if the repair harmed the camera or not.
    The entire situation is really unfortunate considering that the store offered this cleaning service for free.
     
  14. I think I would try to get them to "eat" the camera. In other words, get them to give you a brand new one and let them worry about dealing with or selling as "Nikon Refurbished" the one that they screwed up. Who worked on it that they advertized a professional cleaning and then ruined your sensor? That person should have some responsibility here too. As far as "free", it wasn't free at all. You had to spend 100 UK money in order to get the cleaning. Ehhhh, stand your ground and be firm.
     
  15. I working making prototypes at Keystone Camera and have see what a camera assembly line looks like.. While a keytone is by no means a D3 I too would ask for a new camera..
    I wonder how many cheaper cameras this tech messed up and sent out the door..
    The best testing and assembly equipmment is is at Nikon Japan on the assembly line..
    There is a bunch of flat platic mylar wire that work best when used once.
    Some parts are soldered to these flat wires and others are clamped in.. They always work best when used once.. That might mean taking the whole camera a part on a work bench and putting it bback together.. Not putting it back together in the designed fixtures on the assembly line like when it was made ..
    My guess is they will not go for the new camera but I would ask for an extened warranty..
     
  16. I would wait until the camera comes back. With luck, it will be 'better than new', in that a technician will have adjusted and calibrated the autofocus to work with the new sensor, etc. I would ask for a one-year extension to the warranty, but not make TOO much fuss if I didn't get it.
     
  17. I understand your concerns, after spending that much money on a camera, only to have a "professional cleaning" damage it. Where ELSE did the cleaning fluid go ? Is there anything else that was affected that they don't know about yet ? Until you use the camera a bunch, and nothing is a miss, you will have doubts in the back of your mind.
    I would check local laws to see if you are entitled to a replacement. If not, I would make sure the camera was sent to NIKON for repair, not another "authorized" place. The Nikon repair techs are factory trained and will give it a full check out, not just replace the sensor and close it up. Yes, there are lots of tiny connectors and ribbon cables, but they are designed to be removed and reinserted. I work on computers and laptops and anything new from Apple all have the same sort of things and repaired computers work just fine.
     
  18. You had a new camera that perhaps was nothing wrong with it.
    You got caught in the "FREE" cleanimg advice, and that was perhaps totally unnecessary.
    By now you already learnt expensive lesson that nothing is free..?
    Take the Nikon service paid by the dealer.
     
  19. If Nikon repairs the camera at no cost or dealer's cost just take it and forget about it....
    I will tell you my own experience..... I live in Japan and my friend gave me a 17 inches MacBook Pro.... Well, he gave me the money for it.... I ordered on the net from The Apple store..... A customized machine, top of the line..... 2 weeks later it arrived from China....
    As soon as I set it up I noticed there was something wrong with the screen. I called Apple and they offered me to exchange it for a brand new one and it would take another 2 weeks or repair it in Japan and I would get it back within a few days. They also explained to me that if i wanted a brand new one there was a chance that there could be something wrong with it again BUT if they repair mine in Japan they would fix it and return it to me in working order after being tested.
    They came to pick it it up on a Thursday morning and on Saturday afternoon I got it back. That was almost 2 years ago and my computer works like a charm until now.
    There is nothing wrong with a machine that has been fixed, as long if it is fixed by the maker. It is just a tool or a machine.
    Just get it back with a new sensor and never think about it.... Good luck! Cheers!
     
  20. While Nikon is repairing your camera's sensor, have them do a free focus calibration. When you get your camera back, it will be better than when you bought it.
     
  21. I would write a letter to the highest executive of this company. Tell this person that while you are appreciative of the fact that this particular retail outlet has taken responsibility for the damage to your camera, and has sent it to Nikon for repair, you would feel more comfortable with an exchange for a new camera. Be polite and to the point.
     
  22. Let Nikon fix it. Check lots of functions, pixel peep some shots, and test focus with your lenses (Michael D.'s advice is good). If you find a real problem and Nikon fixes that, you are ahead of where you were before the cleaning.
    With any equipment I tell myself that I might drop it. Various risks make the cost of ownership higher than the initial outlay. You are relatively new to photography and spent a large sum. Some of your understandable consternation might arise out of this situation.
     
  23. They are certain that a camera that has had it's sensor replaced is not the same as a camera with an original sensor​
    I don't see how it can be different.
     
  24. I would think that they have insurance for this kind of things. I'd ask for a new camera in replacement (to keep).
     
  25. Look at it this way: I took my New Ferrari 599 into a dealer for a wash job. The dealer poured water into the engine intake while washing the motor. The motor was destroyed. The dealer said " don't worry I'll get it fixed". I would want a new one cause I don't know what else they broke.
     
  26. Since you camera cuoght on dust rhat means it was highly used then you have to get it repair. But it was brand new
    then they have to replace it but this dust came from fair usage then you have to accept the repair.

    Apart from the subject if the are authorize dealer then you have contact nikon for such miss as we are doing sensor
    cleaning frequently and never had any problem
     
  27. Since the camera was quite new, I'd demand a new camera from them. They can take your camera, get it repaired and sell as refurbished. Since they're a certified Nikon seller, it shouldn't be a big problem for them. I think they very well know that if world would learn that their service has destroyed a D3s, anyone knowledgable would think twice to use their services.

    Another option is to require some sort of other compensation, like say, £200 store credit or a few filters.

    Yes, accidents happen, but that's why professional service centers have insurance. And yes, Nikon centers are especially insured ESPECIALLY, EXACTLY FOR THIS PURPOSE (damaging the customer's camera). If Nikon takes this issue so seriously, so should the store and also the customer.
     
  28. Thank you for all the responses. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to voice their opinion.
    After reading your responses and thinking (a lot) more about this I feel that one of the important aspects in this case is who caused the damage. Was it the dealer (or the technician), or was it a manufacturing defect? If it was the dealer who caused this, then my case for a replacement is strong.
    Whereas if it was a manufacturing defect, then it's Nikon's responsibility to fix the problem. Given that this is a 4 month old camra, not sure what is Nikon's policy is for replacement / repair. I need to speak to Nikon when the camera reaches their service center.
    I did speak with Nikon on Friday and they mentioned that they don't recommend sensor cleaning with anything except a blower. I was slightly surprised to hear this because the dealer claims that they clean 100's of Nikon cameras every month and do a solution based cleaning. Need more details on this to understand if the dealer is at fault to clean using a method that is not recommended by Nikon.
    One of my fears is that I'm not sure what else may have been damaged, i.e. if the dealer used excessive solution or dropped solution on the sensor where else it may have spilled or gotten into. I only got to see the sensor and it was in a very bad shape. Basically there were 4 solution bubbles between the low pass filter and the sensor.
    One of the items I have to agree with is that given the size and global business of this dealer they definitely have insurance to cover such kind of incidents / accidents. For them to replace this camera would not be in a big deal (in terms of cost).
    I guess it is important for me to speak to Nikon and understand in detail the cause and nature of the damage. This would be helpful in deciding what my next steps should be and will also be helpful in understanding the nature and extent of the damage.
     
  29. After thinking some more, I'm completely at a loss to understand how "cleaning fluid" might have ruined the sensor. I've scraped and poked the sensor in my D70 to no end with copious amounts of 70 to 90% isopropanol and so far only the black AA filter retainer has melted (?) a little. I've also removed the AA filter some years back, a 15 minute operation, and have not had any ribbon cable problems yet. Also, "he said she said" but, somebody said that refurbished items go through a stricter check. I'd still want an accident protection though...
    OTOH, Nikon might just decide to "crap" the camera and make the shop "eat" it! I'd kinda feel sorry for the sensor cleaner guy if that happens...
     
  30. Amit, The two things that would matter to me would be 1. Will you not have confidence in the camera if it is repaired? 2. Does your ethos drive you demand a new camera regardless? If yes to either then you should do what you feel that you need to do. I am sympathetic. I purchased my D3S in June and so far no problems. Good luck Andy
     
  31. If it was the dealer who caused this, then my case for a replacement is strong.​
    Amit,
    As you say, "(...) because the offering was free and this dealer was a Certified Professional Store (...) I decided to take up the offer and get the sensor cleaned". This may indicate you were aware of the delicate nature of the operation and that there were risks involved, and one (that has not been referred yet) is if this made the Nikon's warranty void.
    One point you do not refer is if the dealer inspected your camera and said a cleaning was needed or if it was your own initiative to ask for it.
    Another is if there were any explicit terms of responsibility declared by the store to inform your decision or your confidence came only from their quality as a Certified Professional Store ( probably not the same as a Certified Professional Nikon Repairer).
    Something went wrong and the seller takes responsibility, offering you to get the camera repaired by the manufacturer and lending you a camera (same model) during the period of the repair, claiming this will restore the situation prior to the event and will not cause you any use disturbance.
    You don't agree and claim a brand new camera because your's was new.
    I suspect this will be your legal case and you shall evaluate your advantages and disadvantages going that road. Upfront, you will not get a substitute camera during the time it will run.
    The store will obviously call the cases of some manufacturers whose warranty conditions give them the decision of repairing or substitution, and this one for a brand new or a refurbish unit at their own will - not playing in your favor. As a big group their legal arms will do everything to win the cause if they decide not to offer you a new camera instead (sometimes these kind of decisions are not based just on simple financial equations, like cost of the camera versus legal costs).
    I'm not that familiar with the UK legal on this kind of events and this can make a big difference, so it is hard to give you a sound advice and is up to you to decide.
    However, if you go the other way, I think you shall clarify that is Nikon to repair the camera and that will imply a full evaluation of the damages, not just a sensor change (I'm sure that Nikon would do that anyway), the implications for the camera's original warranty, and if necessary the warranty Nikon gives to the repair.
     
  32. I would guess that the dealer is going to eat the cost of repair, since it clearly states in their user guides that you should only use a blower to clean your sensor. It certainly does in mine. ( D7000 ) .
    Which brings up another question... If Nikon now knows the camera has been improperly cleaned, can they void the warranty ? If that can happen, then you have a strong case for a replacement camera. At least I think so, but I am not a lawyer.
     
  33. I don't know how it works in the UK, but in the States some companies will occassionally return a camera or lens in better condition than when it was new. I sent in a lens for Nikon to dissassemble and clean, and when I got it back it was just ever-so-slightly sharper with ever-so-slightly less CA wide open than when it was new. I asked around, and the consensus seems to be that the repair shops often have tighter tolerances than the factories, since they don't want to risk having a product come back for repair again for the same issue. Of course, this obviously happens more when the product is originally made in Thailand or some other subcontracted factory.
    As mentioned some parts work best the first time, and I don't know what's what.
    I would call Nikon Service and tell them what happened. Try not to get upset and talk about how terrible they are; say that it was an authourized dealer, and that you are dissapointed that someone representing them isn't better trained. They will give you a repair number. Make sure that number is on the box that the camera gets sent in, and write a little note with the number to ship with the camera. You are almost guaranteed that your camera will end up on the bench of one of their best repair techs.
    When you speak to the store, take a similar approach. Don't tell them how unhappy you are; tell them that you think someone in their position should train their employees better. Don't blame the employee - he was probably just doing his job as well as he was trained. Blame the store for putting him in that position. If you blame the employee, you give the store the ability to say, "Yeah, he did screw up," and that takes a lot of the heat off the store - and certainly off the manager. You don't want the manager to feel he's off scott-free, because he's the guy that can help you. If you blame the store, then they have nowhere to go but to admit that they, as a store, screwed up.
    If you yell and scream, people will only be as helpful as they need to be to make you shut up and go away. If you go for the sympathy vote, I assure you you'll get better treatment.
     
  34. As long as you can keep shooting and finally get it fixed, what difference does it make? The sensor replacement will not damage the camera in any way.
    I am still surprised that, for the sake of repeat business, they do not replace the camera and consider the broken one their camera now--to fix and then to sell as refurbished.
    --Lannie
     
  35. You might consult the CAB:
    http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/buying_services_your_rights.htm
    http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/get_advice.htm
    Sounds like this service wasn't carried out "with reasonable care or skill".
    One company that fits your description also operates an equipment rental business. If so, I'd be inclined to (strongly) suggest that they add the repaired body to their rental inventory and give you a new one right away, in compensation for the major damage and inconvenience their mistake has caused.
     
  36. Richard, thank for the link. Yes, it is "that" company.
    I spoke with the dealer today and they have sent the camera to Nikon. Nikon should have it in their system by Wednesday and should have an initial review complete by the end of this week.
    I also spoke with the Nikon service center earlier today and they said that "the cost of replacing the sensor on the D3s is almost the cost of a new camera". I would be surprised if either the dealer or Nikon decide to spend the money and time replace the damaged sensor.
    I guess I just have to wait and let Nikon make an assessment. I will update this forum with the details when they become available.
    Meanwhile, thank you everyone for your responses. I really appreciate all the feedback and advise that has been provided on this forum
     
  37. Antonio,
    "One point you do not refer is if the dealer inspected your camera and said a cleaning was needed or if it was your own initiative to ask for it."
    Since the dealer was providing a "free" sensor cleaning the representative encouraged me to get the sensor cleaned. In fact I had the rep take a shot at f22 and he saw a couple of dust spots in the corner and the dealers advise was "since you are getting a free (professional) cleaning, you might as avail it". The dealer also recommends that the camera sensors should be cleaned once every 3 months; in fact, for pro's they recommend a cleaning once a month. Since I'm new in this field and have had the camera for 4 months I thought it would be wise to take the dealers offer since they recommended a cleaning every 3 months.
    Zack, thanks for your sound advise. Thats exactly what I plan to do for now.
     
  38. I might be wrong, but I believe a repair only has a 90 day warranty same as a refurb camera. I myself would request a new camera.
     
  39. I can understand the OP's pain and disappointment.
    I'm sure that, by spending the GBP 100 and agreeing to the free cleaning, there was a contract between the OP and the shop for this service, and, as such, the cleaning should have been carried out to a proper standard by a suitably experienced and qualified person. As this was obviously not the case, the shop is obliged to give restitution to put the OP back into the "position" he was before the damage, i.e. a camera working to the same standards, full refund of all expenses, and maybe compensation for loss of business, lost time and even stress suffered.
    The UK Small Claims Court is a relatively simple and inexpensive way of making such a claim without a solicitor, but it would perhaps be worth taking legal advice first as to how far a Court may decide in favour of the OP, e.g. would they consider that a repaired camera was equal to the original, and what proof would be needed of any consequential losses.
    However, two points worth considering....does an agreement to have the camera repaired at this time prejudice any later further possible claim for replacement with new, or for other losses? And, OTOH, and quite significantly, surely a reputable dealer will carry full insurance for public liability, losses and damage to customers goods?
    In view of the large amount of your hard-earned money which you've spent with the dealer, and your very understandable dismay at what has happened, I'd certainly take legal advice before going further...this should also enable you to take a considered decision on how to proceed, and not have regrets later that you did not take stronger action.
    Maybe there is also an expensive lesson here not to fiddle (or let anyone else fiddle!) with complicated gear while everything is working properly, unless (like a car) there is a manufacturers schedule for essential maintenance or service. Most mechanical and electronic items these days are made to require little or no routine servicing.
     
  40. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Maybe it is very frustrating, but it sounds like the OP only deserves a proper repair of his original camera. I am sure he would like to have another brand new D3S, or perhaps a new D3S plus a new 70-200mm VR II lens thrown in, but realistically, getting the original camera fixed is the right outcome.
    As they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
     
  41. Mmmm, I see, as usual to many empty words in this kind of issues.
    "(...) this dealer was a Certified Professional Store (...) I decided to take up the offer and get the sensor cleaned"
    It means almost nothing. From what I have seen the one who use to clean the sensors doesn`t use to be a Nikon engineer; even in that "Certified Stores".
    "the cost of replacing the sensor on the D3s is almost the cost of a new camera... "
    Tell them that if this is true, they should offer you a new camera for that little difference. Pay it and get a new camera.
    "the repair shops often have tighter tolerances than the factories, since they don't want to risk having a product come back for repair again for the same issue."
    I love America. Made in USA is still a warranty for me... :)
    ---
    Anyway, I think the shop is giving you a reasonable good service. You certainly deserve a proper repair, specially if it is done by *real* Nikon engineers or repair staff.
    Fighting for a new one seem to me a difficult task. Probably, you will need to ask to an expert in consumer protection laws. If you want it because you are afraid about future hidden defects, try to negotiate a trade; the repaired one for a new one.
     
  42. (Ooops, Zack, yours are not empty words... sincerely. I should have included a full stop or three dashes in the previous paragraph!)
     
  43. I got a call from the Head of Repair of the dealer who told me that their company has decided to replace the camera with a new one. Apparantly the damaged camera got to Nikon and they didn't agree that this was a manufacturing defect. Because of the extensive damage to the sensor the dealer decided replacing the camera was the right thing to do.
    I have collected the new camera and do appreciate the dealer resolving this in quick time.
    Thank you to everyone on this forum who expressed their interests and opinions on this thread.
     
  44. Congratulations! This certainly cultivate customer`s loyalty. They have giving you the best solution.
     
  45. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Jose, not really the best solutions; as I pointed out earlier, the best solution would be a new D3S plus a new 70-200mm/f2.8 AF-S VR II. :)
    But seriously, I think the camera store went overboard to correct their own mistake.
     
  46. I love America. Made in USA is still a warranty for me... :)
    What is still made in America?
     
  47. "What is still made in America?" Turn-signal light bulbs for Toyota pick-up trucks.....
     
  48. First of all, I'm surprised they would pour ANYTHING on the sensor or even that whatever liquid they embedded onto whatever cleaning pad they used was enough to "get under the low-pass filter". Furthermore, I was not aware that was a possibility... still, you live and learn...;-)
    What the dealer is offering is perfectly fair. I recently (during a month-long trip, under harsh conditions, in Africa) scratched the low-pass filter on my D3s and had to send the whole camera (under warranty) for repair (since I'm an NPS member) to the authorised dealer. The sensor was replaced (unlike the D3 and the D3x, the low-pass filter on the D3s cannot be replaced on its own due to the sensor-cleaning mechanism embedded on the D3s), all the plastic grip material (which, FYI, are removed when the camera is opened) were replaced by new ones, the camera was reset and recalibrated using their specialist electronic equipment, it was cleaned and tested and was returned to me within 3 days. It did cost me around 1,500 euros but you literally cannot tell the camera was ever repaired! With the new grips, if anything, it looks newer than what I sent in...
    PLUS, I got the old sensor as a souvenir to play around with...;-)))
    Just make sure they do not try to charge you for anything...
     
  49. I have collected the new camera and do appreciate the dealer resolving this in quick time.
    Good. I think this is the only responsible action by Nikon and the store as the store essentially lured the OP to bring the camera to cleaning which was then done incompetently, causing considerable stress and additional trouble to the OP who might never have needed the cleaning in the first place.
    "the cost of replacing the sensor on the D3s is almost the cost of a new camera".
    This I find very hard to believe. And if is true it means that the workforce doing the repairs are grossly overpaid. The D3s sensor should cost a small fraction of the price of the camera to Nikon (the existence of cameras such as the A850, A900, D700 and 5D Mk II basically prove that the full frame sensor isn't that expensive to make; it's more a question that because the D3s is such a high performer in its field, it is priced high based on the estimated value that the product has to the user). Of course if Nikon wants to make a large profit on spare parts then it could cost half of the price of the camera but it's hardly a customer friendly practice to those whose sensor stops working for e.g. electrical failure just outside of the warranty period.
    I see this philosophy of making products in such a way that repair is almost always impossible or cost-prohibitative does no favours to the environment or the natural resources on this planet. It is shameful really. When the shift lock of my 24 PC-E was damaged (in normal, if extensive use) they just gave me a new one. This is IMO utterly ridiculous as the optics must surely be more expensive than a simple locking screw.
     
  50. Apparantly the damaged camera got to Nikon and they didn't agree that this was a manufacturing defect.
    Am I the only one who is wondering about the ABOVE??? The dealer/repairperson damaged the sensor with improper cleaning. THEN the dealer sent it in as a "manufacturing defect"?
    This is disingenuous of the dealer at best and perhaps fraud at worst. I'm guessing Nikon was aggravated about the situation and told the dealer it would be cheaper to replace the camera than the extensive repair needed. At this point the dealer saw the handwriting on the wall and bailed and offered the new camera. My reading on this is that something much worse happened than a simple "cleaning" accident and they tried to sweep it under the rug with both the manufacturer and the customer.
    I'm glad this was resolved in your favor. Now go out and enjoy your camera and make some great photographs.
     
  51. What is still made in America?​
    Those labels that say, "Made in China." They're made in America.
     

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