SCSI nightmare

My new Canon FS4000 would not load the Canon FilmGet, and would not

work in place of the Nikon LS-2000 (same place in the SCSI chain,

terminator set properly, proper boot sequence). Canon support was not

too helpful, with the guy going back to a senior person to get answers

and then asking me the same questions 2 and 3 times.

I am keeping the scanner, because the scans in the USB mode blew me

away, even with FilmGet. Set up as USB, the FilmGet loaded fine. As

you folks have said, USB (USB 1 in this 98SE case) is excruciatingly

slow. Anyone else have such a mess result from SCSI installation of

FS4000?

I hope this is not a silly question, but most SCSI devices have some sort of dip switch to set the scsi address, have you checked that or is it clashing with another SCSI device using the same address?

 

You may also have to ensure you power-up the film scanner before powering on the PC.

 

Best of luck

I'm assuming you've set the SCSI ID code correctly. You can't have two devices with an identical code: only one will be recognized, and/or the computer will crash.

 

It's time to update! Win98 is dead, dead, dead (not that it ever lived.) Win98SE implementation of USB is so primitive, I'm surprised it even recognized the FS4000.

 

The Win98 plug-and-play is also primitive. That's one possible cause of your problem.

 

Win2k, or WinXP Pro work very well with SCSI. The plug-and-play works reasonably well (especially under WinXP). Best of all, they have native support for USB and IEEE1394.

Mine works in SCSI just fine. Didn't have to go into SCSI bios or anything exotic. I assume from your phrase "proper boot sequence" that you've got the scanner turned on before the computer is turned on -- it should be recognized immediately.

 

The only thing I could think to check is that perhaps your SCSI cable has a problem? Have you tried swapping out cables?

We need to find somebody with a working FS4000 on Win98 using SCSI, and then find out exactly what SCSI card they are using and start from there.

 

I'm guessing your Nikon came with a SCSI card, and it's likely not one the Canon can get along with. Seems I read somewhere that the Canon likes the Adaptec 2930/40 SCSI cards, which are pretty common.

 

Other dumb tricks include settings the scanner as the first device in the chain, etc. Finding somebody with a working FS4000 and SCSI is the first priority though.

FS4000 + SCSI worked fine for me under W98 and XP once I'd fitted an Adaptec AHA-2940 SCSI card. I had a "generic" SCSI card fitted originally and the scanner didn't want to know. It seems that Adaptec is something of a standard for SCSI on the PC. Fortunately there seems to hundreds of them available second hand and dirt cheap prices.

I have ditched W98 however and would recommend anyone to do the same.

SCSI seems to be fading away but its a must on the FS4000 and other than having to remember to power on the scanner before the PC I've found it very reliable and much quicker than USB.

What other SCSI devices are in the chain? Check in device manager for conflicts with both the SCSI card and the scanner. As a first step I would uninstall the SCSI drivers and try again.

If your scsi card is like mine, it may have a bios that you have to go into and set particular options per id (obviously just for the ones you happen to be using). This is normally done during the boot sequence. It should display a screen during boot saying hit such-and-so key to access bios (for the scsi card, not the motherboard).

 

Did the card come with a manual (or can you access one online)?

Re <i>It's time to update! Win98 is dead, dead, dead (not that it ever lived.) Win98SE implementation of USB is so primitive, I'm surprised it even recognized the FS4000.

</i><BR><BR>Here with a Canon FS4000US and Win98SE; we use an Adaptec card we bought as new old stock from Ebay. It has worked well for several years; with no problems on WIN98SE.<BR><BR>The rubber boot must be removed on the bottom of the unit; and unit switched from USB to SCSI<BR><BR>The Terminator in the rubber boot must be set correctly. This is a matrix of SCSI ID 0 thru 7; and terminator ON or OFF. Most folks use only one SCSI device at first; and use the matrix row of OFF and the SCSI ID number. It is a rotatry 8 position selector; very common on SCSI devices. You rotate the switch with a + philips screwdriver; or a pen knife. This is a SCSI II device. There are 2 ports; either works. Here we have two SCSI scanners; and they are daisy chained together.<BR><BR>With our Canon FS 2710 and Canon FS 4000US; these MUST be turned on first in SCSI; and then the computer booted up. This is mentioned in both the 2710 and 4000 manuals; for MAC and Win OS's. <BR><BR>Most all field/phone calls on SCSI are terminators; not turning on the scanner before boot; unit not switched from USB to SCSI.

Thanks for the responses, guys. The 2940AU SCSI 2 card is the one I've used for 3 years. The first item in the chain is an internal SCSI CD burner (reads but won't burn). The last item is a Umax flatbed with a terminator attached. The items are ID's 3, 4 and 5, the Canon being 4, with no termination, as it's in the middle. Setting the Canon as terminated as the end component doesn't work. Setting the flatbed as the end component, without the Canon in the middle doesn't work, either. The 2940 card shows up as operational in Device Manager, but when a scanner is turned on and the system rebooted, the card shows up in the yellow. Sheesh, all this because I wanted to switch one SCSI component with another. Maybe, as someone suggests, it's time for a new computer with XP, and installing the SCSI card and components from scratch. So, SCSI works OK with XP?

Which SCSI card are you using for the FS4000 Kelly? I suspect it's a 2930/40 as well.

 

Nikon used to ship their scanners with a stripped down Adaptec card or clone that had just enough logic to handle the scanner calls.

Here we use an Adaptec AHA-294o ULTRA SCSI card. The guy who hawks them on Ebay has them new in the "Compaq" box. There is no driver with his deal; or documentation. The card is recognized by WIN98 after install; if you point it to \WIN98 to find the cab files it wants. Adaptec does have a more modern driver for WIN98SE and the 2940 Ultra; we downloaded it; and upgraded the driver. This card has a blinking LED on its card; usefull to see when data is being transfered. We tapped into the LED; and added a large giant LED; that can be seen WAY across the room. This helps when tending a zoo of scanners. The PCI card is something like 10 bucks; 20 with shipping.

Doug; <b>is the switch set to SCSI in the bottom rubber boot of the scanner?</b><BR><BR>Try adding only the FS 4000 at the front of the chain as a test.<BR><BR>Our old FS2710 scanner says all over the manual that the device should not be used in a chain; but they have 2 SCSI connectors. I suspect this is to reduce field calls. Our other FS2710 came bundled with a "stripped down Adaptec SCSI card". Regards

If your working system reboots when you turn on the scanner, this leads me to believe you have another device with the same SCSI ID. If you boot your system with scanner turned on, before operating system boots you should get list of devices attached to SCSI bus. If it doesn't, press Ctrl-A when you see boot message from the controller, then go to device list and see if there is anything corresponding to SCSI ID of your scanner. I'm not familiar with your particular scanner but check if narrow/wide settings and transfer speed of the scanner match those what adapter will attempt for this ID. Also, try to disable 'Send start unit' for this SCSI ID.

Now I'm wondering too. <B><size=4>Doug, did you switch the switch in the foot of the scanner from USB to SCSI?<size=4></b><br><Br>If you don't do this the scanner still thinks it is in USB mode and will ignore the SCSI connection.<br><br>I can't help you with Win98, I'm running my FS4000 on an Adaptec 19160 on Win XP Pro.

doug - take the umax scanner out of the system for a try. i got an umax 1200s that gives me problems when starting up on the scsi bus. i need to switch it on, then wait 2 minutes then switch off and on again. after this "warm start" it works ok. so leave it out of the system for a try. the adaptec controllers in general are fine but the one you got with the U (ultra at the end of the name) is very picky if it comes to cable lenght. put another load on the cable and the system got problems. setting slower signal tranfer speeds does not help then since the pulse-lenght is not changed with this scsi card when set to slower speed. try use a shorter external cable, or if possible just use the external cable for testing, disconnect the internal cable. im not sure if the controler has automatic termination of the internal cable end. (hope your disk does not run from this controler).

hope this might help.

cheers

walter

My FS4000US works just fine with Win98SE, using a SIIG AP-10 SCSI card. It replaced an HP Photosmart. I just unplugged the HP, set the Canon's switch to SCSI, plugged in the Canon, turned everything on, started Vuescan (which I had been using for years), and started scanning.

 

I am well aware that SCSI lore requires turning on devices before booting the computer, but I normally leave the scanner turned off until I'm ready to use it. I need only turn on the scanner and start VueScan. Vuescan takes about 30 seconds to find the scanner, then it's good to go. It may help that the scanner is the only SCSI device I'm currently using.

 

I also successfully installed FilmGet, and used it a few times to test it so I know it works. But for various reasons too lengthy to repeat here, I use (and recommend) VueScan.

My CD burner does run from this controller. It was always shown upon boot-up, along with the scanners, provided they were turned on first. Now the 2940 card (yes, it is an -AU) and the CD burner show up when booting ONLY when neither scanner is conneected with SCSI cords. The cords are as short as are practically possible, short of putting all the components on the same table top. This whole system with the SAME cords worked fine with the old Nikon and Umax scanners, only hours before I switched. I DID flip the USB/SCSI switch under the rubber cover and set the SCSI ID and terminate or not as appropriate.

I actually like the scans, but the nasty looking previews are alarming at first. I just scan at 4000, 42-bit into PS7. The scans of Provia 100 slides are very true to color, much better than the raw nikon LS_2000 scans, but, to be fair, the Nikon is ailing.

Welcome to SCSI hell.

 

The Adaptec SCSI BIOS (I think you type control-A during the boot sequence) has at least three settings per target. You could experiment with all of them. Particularly, avoid enabling "disconnect". If you are lucky, Canon might even have documented how they implemented SCSI, and give you information that might help you get the configuration right. But many SCSI hardware vendors provide user-friendly (read: "dumbed down") documentation that provides no technical content. (HP, for example.) Hmm, the Steve's Digicam's review mentions using a Ultra SCSI 2940AU card.

 

If you have a spare slot, go ahead and buy some other SCSI card. Hopefully not Adaptec. (While they are the industry leader, their software quality leaves a lot to be desired.) Leave the CD drive where it is, you can have multiple SCSI controllers on the system.

Funny, all I had to do for my SCSI card was stick it in the computer and connect the scanner. I think I downloaded the latest software from their site and downloaded ASPI and installed both. Turned on the scanner, scanned for it in hardware manager and was off and running.

 

I don't know if that's because I think my card (the 19160) is a higher level card (about $130) than the cards you're referencing, and may have a different bios and software. But it was easy as pie and the thing works without a hitch. I've even swapped in a SCSI hard drive to get data off it for a friend with no troubles.

Funny, I had the same experience as Kelly. Just put a adaptec 29160 in the box, Win2K installed all the drivers without a hitch and my FS4000 worked right away. If its not switched on while booting you have to do a 'scan for hardware changes' in 'device manager' and it should be there. Sorry, no experience under Win98, but it's high time to dump it anyway.

doug - if it doesnt run with a 2940 its trash (1) - if it doenst run with a 2940AU its a cable problem or terminator problem(2)- at least 99% of the time. (i must have at least installed 50 2940 units, many at the time of win98)

 

 

1: you should not need a 29160 - this is overdoing it - if you can get an old 2940 non U cheep go for it, this is the controler that is the market standard for scsi II.

 

2: if the only internal unit is the cd burner - remove the cable from the controler for testing - make sure that the card internal terminator is set to automatic or activated. remove all aother units from the external cable. use the shortest cable you got and terminate the scanner. even though the scsi ID should make no difference try number 0 once to verify this. if this does not work only one thing will help: try different hardware for each part. if it works then add one by one additional devices. since you have no HD attached you can keep the scanner at ID 0 if you like it. there is a chain of priority starting at ID 0 . i bet 10 oranges that you got a cable or teminator problem with internal cable + several external cables and units.

 

i had problems more often with this controler than not to have problems with internal+external units installed. if a unit shows up in the list upon boot time this does not necessarily tell you that its going to work properly, all it means is that the controler found it. actually if it finds the unit and then there is a problem - this is some hint that cabling-termination may be a problem.

by the way : i recomend switching the terminator off in your scanner and adding a terminator plug to the unit. this could also help.

dont despair - it will work some day :-)

 

cheers

walter

Thanks to all of you who have tried to help. I will print this out and carefully test out these suggestions. If I see another such question come through here, I'l try my best to tell the user what worked for me. I agree, it's gonna work sooner or later.