Scrubbing Plastic Development Reels?

What causes a plastic development reel to become difficult to load a 36 exposure roll and what can be done about it. I saw one book that said that maybe wetting agent (Photo flo? which I do use) residue might be partially at fault. Would scrubbing the reel in something help? Water? hand dish detergent?

 

Has anyone solved this problem, and if so what did you do? Thanks.

Being a life long Nikor SS tank / reel guy, I can only say a few friends have "solved" this problem by keeping any form of moisture away from the reel before loading. Others may speak to the formation of "crud" onto the reel. In 25+ years my present 35 & 120 reels have not shown any signs of staining. I only wash them out (and the tank) with hot water at the end of the developing session. Bill

I've never really had this problem. I wash them well after use and allow them to dry completely before reuse. If I bought some used reels that were sticky, I would throw them in the dishwasher or throw them away.

Actually, as alluded to above, the most common problems happen when you try to load a damp reel. You may think that it's dry but a little moisture in the reel causes the film to swell and stick to the plastic.

I generally rinse them with water and let them dry, and the ones I've used for a while DO have this problem. They're not sticky or discolored. They only have a problem with long rolls of film (25+ exposures) and it's hard to get the whole roll on the reel. I can do it but it's time consuming. I've never tried to wash them in the dishwasher or the sink with dish soap ... yet. But I'm considering it, which is why I was trying to determine if that is a good idea.

 

I never use a wet reel. I wait till it's totally dry. And I STILL have the issue.

Had plastic & problems, bought steel early on. Solved all problems. Steel reels & tanks can be had cheaply on line, lots there today..

hard water can build crud on plastics. maybe soaking them in CLR will dissolve it.

 

developing color definately builds crud thats almost impossible to remove if allowed to accumulate.

 

use stainless equipment n problem solved.

I don't think scrubbing will help. It'll scratch the plastic surface and increase friction with the film.

 

A dishwasher cycle is definitely not recommended. The near-boiling water may warp the plastic, and the caustic dishwasher tablets may break down the plastic surface. Depends on the material used. Personally I wouldn't risk it.

 

Just make sure the reels are bone dry. An application of silicone furniture polish usually helps, and lasts for a couple of loadings. But I'm with others in advocating SS reels and tanks for ease of loading... after you've mastered the knack of course.

 

Out of curiosity. Are you using Paterson reels by any chance?

Something else . . . If it's only one or two reels and only with long rolls . . . The plastic on these is pretty fine in spots. Try working on a dummy roll of film and see if it sticks in the same spot. When dropped or bumped, these reels sometimes break and it's hard to notice. You may have a little tab of plastic interfering with the film path.

i keep a bottle of ammonia on hand. I use clear ammonia (no soap/detergent added) and it does what you need.

Though I have a steel reel, I don't develop enough to be able to use it effectively. For one thing it takes practice (I used to use one in my high school days, when velociraptors walked the Earth), and for another I have too many problems with my hands that affect my dexterity to manage the trick. I can do it in the light, but when I try to do it in the dark, the film ends up buckling in the steel reel.

 

Peter, what do you do with the Ammonia? Wipe it over the reel? Soak it in ammonia? Do you use it once the reel gets a bit tough to use, or do you use it after using the reel?

 

Ok, no dishwasher. I'll try the dummy roll. I have a couple from some disasters in the past. I keep trying to get the hang of the metal reels but no dice, I just can't physically make my hands do it.

 

One is a patterson. The other (one with the blue top) I don't remember what the brand is.

 

Initially I would give it a soak with a couple cap fulls of ammonia mixed with water. A few hours should absorb any photoflo built up.Depending how much you use, once every other month should cover you. wear gloves if you are sensitive. You shouldn't have to touch the solution. Fill the tank like you would a developer, or use a wash basin.

Thanks, will try that with my worst reel (the one shown as not being inside the case). I actually have 3 of them so I can have a dry reel in case the other two are wet. But now that one reel is really hard to use.

The best tool,

To scrub a plastic spool......

That's the tank in front. Unfortunately I just can't do it reliably unless I'm watching and my fingers are traitors. :mad:

Ed said to use a dummy film, I agree, but perhaps a short piece say an inch or two long so that if catches, it might be easier to detect the spot than using a long film which would be filling up the reel as it's wound on

 

The film needs clearance so it doesn't get stuck in the reel, but if the reel "distorts" as you are reeling the film on, it could be closing up that clearance and binding the film

 

Do you tend to "twist" the reel from side to side as you are winding the film on ? Do you apply equal pressure to both flanges of the reel when winding on, or do you hold one flange still while only working the other flange back and forth ? The technique you use could be causing problems

 

A plastic reel needs steady equal pressure on both flanges with both flanges working back and forth without wobbling the reel all over the place while reeling the film on

Edited September 28, 2018 by kmac

all you need is a plastic spoon to use a wet reel.

I suppose a dishwasher might be too hot, but I suspect it will also do a good job.

 

If it doesn't, throw the reel away. It was already not working.

 

Dishwasher detergent in a bowl to soak might also work, if you

think it might otherwise be too hot.

 

For that matter, strong sodium carbonate solution, which is a popular part of

dishwasher detergents, and also of developers, might be good.

(Commonly available as washing soda.)

 

Dishwasher detergents are hard on aluminum, but not usually plastics.

I also suffer from clumsy fingers but keep on truckin with the ss reels. You might consider using one of the various loading aids put out for the ss reels. On the plastic jamming while dry, try to clip each corner of the film. I due this clipping to get my 35 & 120 films into the PP archival sleeves for storage. Bill

Metal can be scrubbed, but I am very careful when I clean plastic to avoid abrasions.

 

In my personal experience, I have to relearn how to load the darned reels every (infrequent) time I use them. A little like the keystroke conventions in some old programs- if you don't use them all the time, you forget.

Invest in a Jobo tank and reel. The Jobo design really is far superior, especially the large diameter reels.

 

Jobo's small reels are made from a more 'slippery' plastic than Paterson use, and they have no stupid ball-bearing ratchet to catch water. You just place your thumbs against the entry lips of the reel and apply alternate pressure to prevent the film 'walking' backwards.

Ed said to use a dummy film, I agree, but perhaps a short piece say an inch or two long so that if catches, it might be easier to detect the spot than using a long film which would be filling up the reel as it's wound on

 

The film needs clearance so it doesn't get stuck in the reel, but if the reel "distorts" as you are reeling the film on, it could be closing up that clearance and binding the film

 

Do you tend to "twist" the reel from side to side as you are winding the film on ? Do you apply equal pressure to both flanges of the reel when winding on, or do you hold one flange still while only working the other flange back and forth ? The technique you use could be causing problems

 

A plastic reel needs steady equal pressure on both flanges with both flanges working back and forth without wobbling the reel all over the place while reeling the film on

 

I hold the reel on both sides and make the film bow a little with the middle part up and then turn the reel to feel the film in. It works for a while and then buckles unless I can "SEE" it. Like I said, I can't guarantee I'm maintaining a constant grip because I can't do that, but I try to be as consistent as possible.

 

I will have a look at the Jobo tank too.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Plastic reels become harder to load with age because photographic chemicals etch or craze the surface, causing the cut edge of the film to bind. The effect is exacerbated because film is loaded from the outside, for the entire length of the spiral and film. Even a small amount of moisture renders them impossible to load.

 

Metal reels are correctly loaded from the inside-out, and are unaffected by photographic chemicals. They are easy to dry (no corners) and can even be loaded when damp. The greatest danger of a damp metal reel is transferring moisture to your fingers, possibly leaving fingerprints on the film or causing it to buckle. Bang the flat ends on a towel a couple of times, and you're good to go.

Believe me if I could load metal reels, I would. Even if I had good dexterity though, as I said earlier, I think it requires practice, so you'd have to be doing film frequently to make it function consistently inside a changing bag. If you do this once a month, every time you're going to be trying to remember the technique. I just end up in the bag feeling the film buckle and being frustrated.

 

Aside from this degrading of performance of the plastic reels, they're easier to load and use. AND I like the side to side agitation that both my plastic systems allow you to do rather than the inversion thing. I'm going to try some of these techniques to try to "fix" the plastic reels, but if they don't work, I'll just buy more plastic reels and throw these away ... reluctantly but it's not that big a deal. Maybe I'll try the Jobo system.

 

Heck the Technidol packets almost require the metal reels because there isn't enough in the packets to develop 2 plastic reels. But I have found I can dilute the Technidol a little to give me 22oz and it works fine. Course I'm going to run out of Technidol pretty soon anyway. I bought some when Tech Pan went away and some Tech Pan too, but I don't think I have enough to develop my remaining film so I'll be down to experimentation when I get to the last rolls (assuming I do). Tech Pan, due to its low film speed, requires a tripod and that is tough for me to carry these days.

 

Anyway, I think the first thing I will try is to use a bad roll to look at the film while it's loading to see what I can see and then try the ammonia soak to see if that changes the equation.

Plastic reels become harder to load with age because photographic chemicals etch or craze the surface, causing the cut edge of the film to bind. The effect is exacerbated because film is loaded from the outside, for the entire length of the spiral and film. Even a small amount of moisture renders them impossible to load.

 

Metal reels are correctly loaded from the inside-out, and are unaffected by photographic chemicals. They are easy to dry (no corners) and can even be loaded when damp. The greatest danger of a damp metal reel is transferring moisture to your fingers, possibly leaving fingerprints on the film or causing it to buckle. Bang the flat ends on a towel a couple of times, and you're good to go.

This is basically the answer to an age old problem.

NEW reels load like magic, but once they age.......

As said above, the biggest issue is that the plastic reels load from the outside in. You are "Shoving" the film into the reel. Any little obstruction can cause a problem.

Metal reels start at the center and then you PULL the film on.....no problems with jamming.

That is why everybody has the same trouble...usually with 36 Exp...and usually after about 22-30 frames are loaded. At That Point, you are trying to push so much film in, that the smallest catch creates a problem.

Try "rounding" the corners of the leading film edge.

Some guys rub the reels with a pencil to lubricate them.

Try running a dummy 36 Exp through, at first, to help with any potential problem areas, before you load the "real" film.

Try rinsing the reels in Distilled water when you finish.

Photo-Flo.....yeah, some guys swear that is problematic and always remove the film from the plastic reels before they use any of that stuff.

Two techniques i have had "success" with if i get about 70% of the film in and then it binds.........

1. Just try knocking the reels on a table-top, see if that will clear the problem.

2. Keep going bu use a VERY Short stroke if you know what i mean.? Do not rotate the reels to their max. Just wind it back about 1/2" and see if you can just slowly, with those short strokes, get the rest of the film loaded.

And if all else fails, just pull the film off the reels and start all over.......

Good Luck