Schneider 58XL vs. Rodenstock Apo Grandagon 55?

This question has not been asked in the archives, so here goes:

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I am considering getting one of these two ultra wide lenses in next few months to augment the charming Nikkor 90 (which many times is not wide enough for the shot)for full 4x5 frame coverage.

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Anyone have experience of their own choosing between these two, and if so, which one did you get, the Schneider or the Rodenstock, and what was your reasoning?

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Word is, optically the Rodenstock is excellent. Any other tid-bits?

Andre, As you know from a previous posting I too am looking for a

wide angle, so I've been doing plenty of research!! The 55

Rodenstock seems to be VERY good, only problem I've come across is a

posting where the flimsy rodenstock lens caps have rubbed on the rear

element and marked the glass!! A replacement cap would solve this!!

It also appears that a centre filter is essential too (extra cost).

FRom all reports the 55 vs the 58XL seems to be an even match!! This

narrows the choice down between both lenses to something as simple as

brand loyalty!! Just some thoughts!! Regards Paul

"only problem I've come across is a posting where the flimsy

rodenstock lens caps have rubbed on the rear element and

marked the glass!!"

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That is the only time we heard of it also and we are the

distributor.

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The person who psted that comment, I believe, had purchased a

used lens and this comment may have no bearing on a new

one. To date no one who has bought a new lens in the past 12

years has reported this to us.

Yeh, but it's still worrying all the same!! I only mentioned

this "problem" as it's the only negative point I've come across for

this lens!! Lighten up Bob!!

For the record let me state that the three wonderful Rodenstock

lenses (90mm f4.5 Grandagon, 135mm f5.6 Sironar-S, 210mm Sironar-S)

that I bought new last year came with flimsy, thin, and inadequate

lens caps stamped with the word Rodenstock on them.

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From this forum I learned of the existence of machined delrin lens

caps made by S.K. Grimes, and I have now replaced all my lens caps

with these very substantive improvements. These lenses deserve to be

better protected and now Rodenstock's 'oversight' has been corrected.

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The issue of flimsy lens caps has surfaced before on this forum, as

has the elegant solution provided by S.K. Grimes.

For full details see:

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www.skgrimes.com/caps/index.htm

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These are the Linhofs of lens caps.

I don't think that Bob said anything out of line. He was only stating

that in the past 12 years there was only one comnplaint, and that

complaint may not have been based upon a manufacturer's supplied lens

cap.

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I think that Paul needs not to be so defensive.

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Jim

No Paul.

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You relax.

" but it's still worrying all the same!!"

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It simply has not, is not and will not be an issue.

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If you truly want to end all worries buy a set of custom Novoflex

metal caps. but you would be the first to do so.

Andre

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There is one plain and simple answer to your question. Ask each

distriutor to suggest a stocking dealer near you who has a demo lens

of the type you are condisering buying. Really no different that

asking for a test drive when you go to buy a new car. If they won't

allow you to test the lens you are considering buying, run from that

place as fast as you can. But don't rely on someone telling you

something might be good when you are buying a new lens. Test the one

you want to buy and make sure that if it is no good you can take it

back. I am sure that the Rodenstock people and the Schneider people

want to know when they have a lemon out there and I am sure they

would be willing to take it back if it proves to be so. Right Bob?

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Kevin

All lenses supplied by us are warrantied to perform to their

specifications. If not thet are reaired or replaced per warranty.

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However very few retailers will make new lenses used by

renting their new stock. So the specific lens a dealer rents isn't

always a new boxed unit. It is a lens in their rental stock.

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Virtually all dealers dealing in pro equipment rent so there is no

problem finding one. Just there may not be one near where he

lives.

Andre:

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Photomark in Phoenix has (had) a 55mm Apo-Grandagon in their rental

fleet.

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I rented it twice, then bought one based on excellent results.

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Glenn

I have likewise rented Photomark's 55mm Grandagon and found it to be a

superb lens ... haven't yet purchased one, though, as the money always

seems to find another outlet besides photography.

Andre, I cannot speak from experience with regards to the 58XL from Schnieder but I have been using Rodenstock's 55 Apo Grandagon for sometime. Initially on 6x9cm and more recently on 5x4. Unfortunately it provides little room for lens shift on this format but its such a sharp lens right to the edge even on 5x4.

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This is purely subjective but I find that a lot of my images taken with this lens seem to have an almost fluidness about them, a kind of 3D feel. Imotive I know but it's something I cannot fully explain.

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Good luck with your choice.

Hi Andre

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I would take the Rodenstock because of 3mm more wideangel and change

the lense caps with others,

because I`m the man with the damaged lens from the bad caps and the

Rodenstock team maked me a new lenscaoting or a new glass on the back

element in warranty but the cost of the shippment and the 3 weeks

without lens was my problem!

But they think now about there lens caps!

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Hope they think in the right way!

Thank you all for the input. My intuition was telling me to consider

the Rodenstock Grangagon 55mm, and based on your threads I'll take

that hunch and go with it, (albeit possibly considering custom made

lens caps from Grimes as a required accessory). I hope its not TOO

wide for my TOYO Field 45AII, which is supposed to have the Schneider

58XL as the widest limit of usable lenses.

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Aside: I'm too impulsive to test rental lenses as was suggested, but

I know some of you aren't so thank you for the fruits of your labor.

When time comes, hopefully in next year, I'll order the 55mm from RW,

and keep it if it meets performance expectations. I'm looking

forward to it.

"If you truly want to end all worries buy a set of custom Novoflex

metal caps. but you would be the first to do so."

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If this is true Bob I'd like to meet the Dunderhead at Novoflex who

insists on marketing lenscaps that no one has ever purchased!

Andre be advised that if you buy from Robert White you will not

receive the wonderful Lifetime Warranty on the Rodenstock lens that

is only available from Rodenstock's Autorized Distributor in the

U.S.A., yadda yadda yadda... oh nevermind.

"marketing lenscaps that no one has ever purchased"

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Sorry Wayne.

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they are made from aluminum,on a custom order basis, for very

long Canon and Nikon lenses .

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Since I forgot you were here I should have added, never ordered

one for large format lenses.

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But if you wish they can. Rather expensive though for a non-

existant problem.

"a rare NOT non existent problem"

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No.

Non-existant.

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In 12 years distributing Rodenstock

1000's of new lenses.

Not one lens reported to us with this problem.

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Again.

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The person with this problem had purchased a lens that was

NOT new.

In marketing, perception is reality, yes Bob. You have heard from

others now read my comment. The dammed Rodenstock caps are flimsy,

cheaply made. My cap for a 60mm ID fitting weighs exactly 4.70 grams.

Adding another 2.5 grams of plastic would make the cap's convex

surface much more sturdy. The extra cost of another 3 grams of

plastic at about $2.00 per pound for the resin would add to 1.3 cents

additional material cost per cap. Even at the generous mark ups of

this industry, that would probably translate to 8 cents more per

cap/lens. OK, Bob, tell Rodenstock marketers to make a decent cap,

and add the 8 cents to the selling price of each lens and stop making

a reputable optical manufacturer look cheap and greedy. You can help

the manufacturer better by listening to customers instead of

whitewashing their mistakes. For your info, a Schneider 58mm ID lens

cap weighs 7.06 grams and is much sturdier. You do not have to rely

on Novoflex specially ordered caps, get Schneiders.

The stiff corner of a field camera lens board and the front element

of an adjacentlens are not a good combination when a flimsy lens cap

is in place. The Nikon LF lens caps are adequate for their

protection. The Japanese engineers pay attention to little, but

vital details like that.

:You can help the manufacturer better by listening to customers

instead of whitewashing their mistakes.:

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Listen to whom if no one compalins to us?

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We always pass on comments from dealers and users where

there are problems.

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So far, 12 years, no connsumer, no dealer, has had a complaint

about the caps or had a problem caused by the caps.

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Now because the factory has agreed to make good on one

consumer's complaint that a USED lens had a problem they

should change everything?

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Again, 12 years. 1000's of lenses. Noone has reported a

problem.

Happy dreaming Bob for the new year!

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I had a damage of a back element and Kerry had also some troubles with

his front element as I remember and many of the Rodenstock buyers get

other lens caps when the lens is new or they put always a filter on the

lens but for Bob there is not any problem with the caps!!!

But Steve Grimes is happy he can sell some caps and I use a Nikon cap

on my Rodenstock 55 mm Apo Grandagon.

Anyway a good and healthy and happy New Year to all of you!

"I had a damage of a back element and Kerry had also some

troubles with his front element"

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Then it is strange neither of you contacted us directly.