SB800s For Portrait Work

Earlier last week I was contemplating purchasing an Alien Bee's set up for on

location portrait work.....

 

Link to previous thread:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00JRQQ&tag=

 

I got some good advice there, but now I'm thinking a bit more and need some

further advice.

 

My main camera is a Nikon D200 with a D70 as a back up.... I also have an N90S

film camera that I'll sometimes use, but not often. I also own 2 SB800's.....

 

I just recently figured out how to use the D200 with the sb800 in commander

mode, with the on camera flash as the remote trigger as well as using the sb800

on camera as the controller for the other unit.

 

Does anyone use this combination for pro portraits? I'm considering purchasing

another sb800 or possibly a couple of sb600s for fill and back lighting.... or

should I go for an su-800?

 

Also does it make any sense to use umbrellas with this type of set up?

I use an SB600 for my wedding work, both on and off camera. The best way I've found is to K.I.S.S - Keep it simple. You are going to have a hard enough job getting everything you need to without worrying about lighting. Check out: <a href="http://www.strobist.com">http://www.strobist.com</a> there are articles on there that will help alot :)

You can use pretty much any umbrella with an SB800 - you just need the right mount for it. There are plenty of people who make jointed mounts that will go on any light stand, and which in turn allow you to mount your SB800's table-stand. The mounts have pass-through umbrella channels which allow you to either bounce or shoot-through.

 

I've had good luck with that scenario, using my D200's built-in flash as a trigger, and using my SB800 and SB600 as main/fill flashes with and without umbrellas. They don't have the raw horsepower of even a modest monolight, so you might do what I've done, and put two of the speedlights in/through a single umbrella.

 

I've got a couple of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fs%3Furl%3Dsearch-alias%253Daps%26field-keywords%3Dacswcp%26Go.x%3D6%26Go.y%3D12&tag=uplandlife-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325">PhotoFlex MultiClamps</a> that go right on simple light stands, and then you can choose your umbrella. I grabbed a couple of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FWestcott-Optical-White-Umbrella-Removable%2Fdp%2FB00009UTZJ%2Fsr%3D8-6%2Fqid%3D1168992233%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Delectronics&tag=uplandlife-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325">Westcott 2016</a> units - they're 45-inch whites with removable black backings that work for either mode of shooting. It's pretty amazing what you can do with stuff that travels that light and small - but if you really have to throw a lot of light, you'll either need a lot of speedlights, or cave in and buy some monolights. I caved, and got a couple of AB800s for when I don't have to be so feather-weight. Just plugging into the wall has its own appeal!

Should have posted a little illustration with that last bit, so here it is. On the right, the umbrella with the black cover in place - we're seeing it in reflective mode. On the left, we're shooting through to produce a soft-boxish result. That PhotoFlex mount is pretty useful. It comes with a cold shoe, but I prefer to use the Nikon table mount, threaded onto the adapter's provided mount thread. Takes NOTHING to set up, and super easy to carry a couple of these and lightweight stands around.<div></div>

COnsider the Norman brand umbrella/flash holder. It is smaller than most, and most importantly, it always has a bit of friction on it, so your flash won't go tumbling into your stand if loosened. I use them with a metal flash foot from B&H. Forgot the company, but they also make flash brackets. Wescott makes an umbrella where the shaft collapses twice, making it super small- about 12" when collapsed. I have three umbrellas, 3 small Bogen stands and a small tripod that all fits in a small Bogen tripod bag. That's my travel kit. Love it. Also use the Nikon master controller.

Greg, is this the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=WishList.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=38494&is=REG">Norman bracket</a> you're talking about? (link to B&H)

Michelle,

 

I found the SB800 awesome. It's way better than my canon 580EX

WIth the D200 it's really nice to use the built in wireless feature.

 

IMO, with 2 SB800 on remote slave and the built in flash for fill and master is enough for portrait work. But if you need an extra unit I'd recommend the Metz 58 AF1 Nikon model. It's fully compatible with wireless master or slave feature and a small flash head for fill when you bounce the main head.

Michelle-- One of the major factors you have to take into account is modeling lights. The Alien Bees have modeling lights that will in most (sufficiently kind of dark) circumstances enable you to see with your eyes a reasonable facsimile of what the flash will give you when it goes off.

 

Using the display of the digital cameras will substitute for this somewhat, but then you will still find modeling lights very helpful. I also have several SB 800's, with D2x's and D70's for backup. Along with big, generator-pack studio lights, I have a few Alien Bee 800's. Those Bees are finding a lot of use lately, especially on location portrait jobs where quick set-up is required.

 

While my friends in the ASMP tell me I may have been among the first photographers in the DC area to figure out how to use the D70/SB-800 combo in Commander Mode, I find it a whole lot easier to set up the AB's and go fully manual. You'll have a lot more power and no battery hassles, with a virtually unlimited number of flash pops available--and tons more control.

 

My guess is, if you go the SB-800 route for a while, and then get the Alien Bees, you'll think to yourself, "Why did I make myself suffer like that for so long?"

 

And if you have the time to set up with an umbrella and etc., you probably won't need to bother with the Commander Mode anyway. Just set the flashes on manual. This will keep the camera from re-figuring the exposure every time you move the model's head to a different place in the frame. You want problems? Take a picture of a blond against a dark background while letting the camera determine the exposure. Move the view slightly, and the camera will try to re-interpret the exposure. Take a series of 20 pictures in Commander Mode/TTL and many of them will be all over the map, exposure-wise. That can mean HOURS of painfully correcting the exposures by hand in PhotoShop if you are working at a level that requires professional consistency. It's far, far easier to use a proper, consistent manual exposure.

 

Taking a bunch of executive portraits where people show up in different types of clothes, some dark, some light, all different colors, can make it even worse.

 

Happy shooting. -BC-

"<i>... set the flashes on manual. This will keep the camera from re-figuring the exposure every time you move the model's head to a different place in the frame. You want problems? Take a picture of a blond against a dark background while letting the camera determine the exposure. Move the view slightly, and the camera will try to re-interpret the exposure. Take a series of 20 pictures in Commander Mode/TTL and many of them will be all over the map, exposure-wise. That can mean HOURS of painfully correcting the exposures by hand in PhotoShop if you are working at a level that requires professional consistency. It's far, far easier to use a proper, consistent manual exposure.</i>" <p>This is an important point and a <i>very</i> good explanation of a too common problem. Automation does <i>not</i> equal consistency, a fact that is often overlooked by those who believe that since they pay a lot for a camera, they won't/don't have to think about exposure settings. These same shifting interpretations even happen in continuous light when using Matrix Metering, which is also an automated system and with Auto White Balance. I stick with Center Weighted or Spot metering patterns and use a fixed white balance setting (I like Sunny -3).<p>But I disagree with the observation: "<i>... if you have the time to set up with an umbrella and etc., you probably won't need to bother with the Commander Mode anyway.</i>". Since I never use the Built-in flash for anything <i>except</i> as a commander to my SB800, the D200 stays preset to Commander and the SB is always on Remote / Manual. Set up is fast and output is controlled by the camera. It's certainly no substitute for the Lumedyne, but it's easy to keep a sling bag with a stand, adapter and a little umbrella in the car all the time and enables impromptu portraits with little fanfare. If I want to use the SB on a SC-17 cord, I just do a reset to the factory settings by holding down the Mode and Power buttons for a few seconds... t <p>(I should note that my Built in Flash has a piece of virtually opaque Infrared filter gel semi-permanently taped to it to eliminate the really bright pre-flash. It still communicates with the SB, but it doesn't disturb my subject with a bright multi-pop command)<div></div>

If you're going to be doing professional location portraits and have access to electrical outlets (even if you have to run 50ft of extension cord) you can use REAL professional lighting equipment.

 

Using your camera flashes without modeling lights is fine if you are a newspaper photographer and running from one job to another and it's important to just "get the shot". Otherwise, invest in professional lighting equipment, either monolights or power packs and flash heads with reasonably powered modelling lights.

 

Save your on-camera flashes, SB-800s etc. for event or wedding photography, or for fun in a social setting like a party.

 

And buy a flash meter, use your camera on manual and adjust the power of your monolights or power packs for the DOF and exposure that you need and your flash meter indicates. Use the modelling lights in your strobes to control and create your lighting. You be the photographer and make the creative choices in your lighting.

Looking at your portfolio here at Pnet, I think you're ready to move beyond another SB800. Two is plenty for the kind of work that matches their capability. <p>Look into a more controllable and powerful system that can be used on battery power (if that feature interests you). Alien Bees are very popular, but the battery pack is really heavy and the build quality, questionable (I'm ducking right now). Consider Calumet's <a href="http://www.calumetphoto.com/ctl?ac.ui.pn=cat.SpeedSearchPromo&promoKey=1459&type=F3">Travelites </a>. They are in the same price range and can be used with either AC or DC, if you get the battery pack with them. They have 275 watt modeling lights (bright!). Their only drawback (for me) is they are a lot of weight on top of a stand like any monolight. You should definitely use a radio slave like Pocket Wizards and stand weights when using lights on stands around kids, to keep cables off the floor and the lights upright (and consider liability insurance). <p>For your style I think you could work with one light for a while, and maybe use a combination of optical slaves and Pocket Wizards to use the SBs as backlights or background lights (on manual settings).<p>I use Lumedyne for this type of portraiture on location. They have lightweight heads and the packs/batteries make good light stand weights down at the bottom of the stands (and no cords on the floor!) but they have almost no modeling lights, which isn't an issue for me, and they are more expensive if you buy them new. <p>Good luck, I like your stuff (even if the poetry is a <i>little</i> overwrought :^)... t

Thank you so much for all of the input! Tom, Bill after reading what you had to say I made my decision. I put in a call to AlienBee's and should have my equipment by next Tuesday or Wednesday!

 

Thanks for all the sound advice..... I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!

This probably should be another thread, But after reading about the sb800 set-ups and seeing the nice portrait, I decided to go and buy a second SB800 and a Sekonic 308B light meter. However, when I try to use the light meter with the camera in commander mode (D80), My meter displays Eu in the LCD. It must be operater error. Can anyone help?