"Save for web" color change

Discussion in 'Digital Darkroom' started by alfaromeo, May 22, 2009.

  1. I have started having some issues with the color shifts after I reinstalled everything on my PC when I save the image for web. It looks OK in PS CS2, originally the image is in sRGB color space, working is sRGB too. As soon as I hit "save for web" it becomes reddish. Please, advise. Thank you.
    Sample of the image saved for web, does it look OK?
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Is your monitor properly calibrated? Saving for web should show you the colour that is displayed when uploaded to the internet.
    The picture is very slightly reddish, albeit not terribly. I can imagine, though, that for other motifs this becomes a critical issue.
     
  3. monitor is calibrated with Spyder2pro. If I understand this corectly for the internet viewing the sRGB color space is used. The image is in sRGB so is the working color space in my CS2, I even tryied to convert it to sRGB again, but as soon as I hit save for web it turns slightly red.
     
  4. Remember, there is a difference between sRGB and *unmanaged*. The stock browser is generally unmanaged. When you use sRGB space in Photoshop (or another color managed application) you are drawing on the monitor profile created by your Spyder. This suggests that there may a discrepancy between your monitor's stock configuration and your calibrated configuration that goes a bit further than expected. Given that your photo does look very slightly reddish, it might be that your calibration is not accurate. Are you using the Spyder in a dark room or editing in a setting where your color perceptions will be correct?
     
  5. no, im not using it in the dark room, and I actually calibrated the monitor with the ambient light taken into consideration, plus it looks normal unless I save it for web.
     
  6. What is Save For Web? I never use that. Just keep it simple to keep out the variables. Convert to sRGB for your web version file in PS before saving.
     
  7. I have both a NEC 2690 (wide gamut) and an NEC 2490 (sRGB) on my desktop.
    Both of my monitors are extremely well calibrated!
    After viewing your photo on both of my monitors they look superb! Just a slight more redness on my NEC 2690 but nothing you should worry about.
    On my NEC 2490 sRGB (color space which photos should be when posted on the web) monitor your picture could not be any better!
    Cheers
    Ron
     
  8. I just loaded your sRGB image in CS2's Save For Web and I get a slightly more saturated preview after first assigning the sRGB profile which wasn't embedded in the file. My Safari browser shows it as more saturated as well because it assigns my monitor profile to untagged images.
    Aside from that what SFW is doing is stripping the assigned sRGB profile that was set in YOUR Color Settings and assigning the monitor profile loaded in your system (its called "Uncompensated Color" in SFW and is on by default). You have to choose "Document Color Profile" that is selected in the dropdown menu located by clicking on the small triangle in the upper right corner of the image border surround (not the two triangles on the far right of the entire SFW dialog box).
    Problem with that is it won't embed the sRGB profile when you save the image and view in your non-color managed browser. You'll still get the color shift because your display which gets automatically assigned to your image viewed in a browser may not be exactly like the sRGB space the image was written. Hopefully when you first opened the image in question you knew for certain it was written in the sRGB space and not AdobeRGB by the digicam.
    The image shift I got in SFW was on account of my iMac display profile's color gamut is slightly larger than the sRGB profile. Your display's profile gamut may be close to AdobeRGB or NTSC causing a more noticeable color shift. Not sure since we don't know what model of display you have.
    SFW is a disaster and a ball of confusion for those who don't understand color management thoroughly, display color gamut behavior and primarily set there Color Settings to "Web Graphics Default" for web output which automatically assigns the sRGB profile to UNTAGGED images and DOESN'T TELL YOU with a dialog box warning because "Missing Profile" is unchecked and the sRGB working space isn't embedded when saving both in SFW and the regular way.
    What happens when you open an AdobeRGB written image that doesn't have an embedded profile and sRGB is assigned to it with no warning? You get a big mess of confusion as to what the image should look like and even more so if it is edited with sRGB assigned to it. When you view in SFW the sRGB profile is stripped and "Uncompensated Color"(your display profile is assigned) equals an even more noticeable color shift.
    Things would be a little less confusing if those processing images for web output would set their Color Settings to US PrePress Defaults, change the working space to sRGB and click OK out of Color Settings or give it a unique name and save it as a Custom setting. You'ld then get the needed warning dialog boxes with the sRGB profile embedded.
    Viewing sRGB images even with the embedded profile won't guarantee color matching viewing in non-color managed browsers for those with newer LCD displays that have a wider gamut than sRGB.
     
  9. I forgot to add. If you have your RGB working space set to sRGB in Color Settings, you can't convert your image to sRGB because the source has been set to sRGB in Color Settings and assigned to your image if the original profile within the image was stripped or wasn't embedded prior to opening in Photoshop.
    IOW the numbers in the file won't change because you can't convert from sRGB to sRGB. It will become null by the software. Nothing will happen.
    However, if your image was written in AdobeRGB and has the embedded profile and was retained when opening in Photoshop then you can convert to sRGB and the numbers will be changed.
     
  10. Thanks Tim, that solved my problem, and the monitor was DELL 2408WFP
    It doesnt look reddish in SFW anymore, but I see it is the same when I upload it here
     
  11. Jerry,
    I have the same monitor and I figured out why this occurs just this past weekend!
    Basically, our monitors are wide gamut, and when we view our images in a non-color aware application (such as Internet Explorer), reds, and to some extent greens become ultra saturated. I can't say for sure, but I beleive "save for web" does not take into account the color profile embedded in the image.
    You may have yet another problem to deal with as well, I use the Spyder2Suite software, but I just ordered the Spyder3 elite calibrator because of the following warning found on the datacolor website:
    Spyder2express uses an earlier generation of Spyder technology. It is excellent for calibrating CRTs and typical LCD displays. For laptops with very narrow viewing angles, LCDs with gloss finishes, and new LCD technologies such as LED backlight and Wide Gamut displays, we recommend Spyder3-based products, such as Spyder3Pro.
    So, really, what you see as a red-color cast does not actually exist. If you want to do a small test, take a sRGB color chart, and open it in both Internet Explorer and in Photoshop. Compare the images, you'll see that the grays should be identical, but the reds especially will be very different.
    I will be installing Firefox later on today because it is apparently color-aware (or so it says in numerous forum threads); that should "fix" the ultra saturated colors when visiting websites and seeing my own images on the web.
    You can google for "wide gamut red saturation" you'll find loads of pages discussing this topic.
    So, conclusion, on wide gamut monitors, ignore what your images look like in non-color managed applications!
     

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