Run-and-Gun 4x5 Travel Shooting?

I am traveling to San Miguel de Allende right after Christmas for

ten days. Everything in me wants to take this 4x5 and a bunch of

TMAX Readyloads. My normal "old" travel package would have

been one Hasselblad body and two lenses and maybe a tube;

that's it. So I know that to consider 4x5 (and tripod and holders

and loupes and... and...) might be QUITE a different experience.

<P>

 

The main reason reason for the trip is to shoot; it's not for leisure

or margaritas. But I *am* traveling with another person, so I'm

not as free "to be a slowpoke" as I normally am, when I'm on the

road alone.<P>

 

#1: Do you think it's nuts to consider packing up a 4x5 and all its

related stuff, during Christmas rush at airports, with current

security climate?<P>

 

#2: Would you just say, "Just shut up and take the Hasselblad

and enjoy yourself and don't get bogged down"?<P>

 

#3: I tend to shoot fast and move fast, more like a street shooter.

The Hassie is great for this; I just leave the 202FA on automatic

and shoot away (all BW neg). I just don't want to get there, and

realize that I've really really made the wrong decision, where

every frame takes five minutes to set up.<P>

 

#4: On the other hand, I've done the "Hassie and two lenses"

route many times before. I'm itching to dig deeper and work this

4x5. Does anyone have any real-world tips for down-and-dirty,

quick-on-the-move 4x5 shooting? The plan would be one Ebony

body, a 150 and a 72, and BW Readyloads. That's it. Oh, and a

carbon tripod.<P>

 

Any suggestions vastly appreciated. You could make a man's

Christmas much more enjoyable.<P>

 

<B>-MT, http://www.marktucker.com/</b>

If you want to shoot street. If you're trying to slow down, then slow down. I'd say take the Ebony (or if you truly want down and dirty, then rent a Technika or Speed Graphic and handhold). If you can't slow down in San Miguel de Allende (what a great place!), then you are truly a Type A. ;-) Park the compadre in the zocalo with a couple of margaritas and just move around that spot. Take a break with the compadre and then find another cafe and then shoot near that spot. I'd say travelling is better with the new TSA regime and LF is LESS of a problem than before (and it wasn't so bad even then). Have a great trip.

Is the other person shooting as well? Could be a huge incompatibility problem? Is the other person sitting around watching you operate a view camera? Could get you killed.

Mark,

 

I think taking your 4x5 on a trip with a traveling companion has disaster written all over it. I looked at your site, you are quite accomplished but there is nothing, "quick", about 4x5 photography.

 

We're all different. I get nervous if someone is with me when I shoot 4x5 because it takes awhile to set up and shoot, which can lead to screw-ups. And if you shoot 4x5, there is no way around not using a tripod.

 

Secondly, I don't see you gaining that much, if anything, over Hasselblad either.

 

Instead of a different format, how about a different photographic vision of what you shoot.

 

Merry Christmas

Mark,

 

Using a press or technical camera with a rangefinder is a good idea. The kind of photography you're talking about is what rangefinder Crown/Speed Graphics were made for doing. The rangefinder keeps a tripod from being an absolute necessity. Without being able to hand hold and rangefinder focus, I think you will be talking 5 minutes to set up.

 

A plus for the Technika or a Wista is that it will use the same lensboards as the Ebony, so you don't have to fool around with re-mounting lenses. It folds into a sturdy box, so extra packing shouldn't be required.

 

Thanks!

 

Steve

You should TAKE THE 4X5! It's where you're at NOW, and it's going to make YOUR trip the most meaningful for you. I've done it the other way too many times. I'll take a good Nikon outfit and never take a single picture. And when I do take some rolls with the Nikon they end up in the freezer waiting "on ice". Sorry to the rest of the world, but I enjoy looking at it upside down. Bottom line is if I can't do the pics in the way that I'm pumped up about the possibilities, I may as well not do them at all. There are of course snapshot duties that any good husband and Grandpa is responsible for. Digital. Shirtpocket digital.

I think taking a companion on a photo expedition has disaster written all over it. Tried it, will never do that again.

To Sorin and Bill,

 

You make good points. I was very apprehensive about it. I work

much better alone. Less anxiety about holding people up.

 

You have no idea how bizarre it is that I end up traveling with this

woman. Not worth going into here, but in the end, you just say,

"does Jesus mean for this to happen?", and then I hold up my

finger into the air. I guess I answered yes this time. I have never

met her, (see, the story gets weirder and weirder), so I wrote her

this long letter about how screwed up most photographers are,

and even moreso when they're in "work mode" as I call it. You

can't even talk to them; they're wandering around, looking at the

light, mumbling something to themselves about f8 or f16, blah

blah. I damn near made her sign a contract that she understood

who she was traveling with. So I'd say she's properly forewarned

and properly freaked out. But on the flip side, in Cuba, it got kinda

nutty being there alone; it would have been nice to have

someone to "outflow" to, and share the incredible experience of

it. I could go on about this crazy story, but let's just say that "ten

days ain't the end of the world"; I can do about anything for ten

days; I've already warned her that I might lose it, and go off on my

own, and I'm for damn sure NOT going shopping, anywhere.

 

I'm sure I'll decide what I'm taking about two hours before I leave

for the airport. I'll anguish about it for that long. I like that other

guy's idea about just having a different vision, but with the same

Hasselblad camera. (But MAN, it is SO easy to get spoiled to all

this square footage of extra negative area. The Hassie negs

almost seem like toys to me now. I know that's in the equation

somewhere. And also not to mention, no tilts and shifts with

Hasselblad. Everything's too good with that camera).

 

Thanks for your responses. (I'm nowhere closer to an answer

though...)

 

MT (twice-divorced and very single. surprised?)

Mark,

Is this other person a woman? If it is, and if you are, do you wish to stay romantically involved with this person? Is it important that this person understand that photography is a passion of yours that you are not willing to compromise on should the relationship continue?

 

If it's another guy, then simply park him at a bar with pretty girls while you go off and shoot.

 

The Ebony is a field camera, not a monorail, right? I say yes to the 4by5!

 

(And maybe you could get your "freind" to carry the Hasselblad.)

Ha... Mark, you sure make things interesting!

 

I've done the same in Mexico - sometimes travel/life partners gets bummed out sometimes not... (next time will also include a 2yr old... more fun and complications - I managed to still shoot some 4x5 (and get a couple of keepers) this summer in BC with partner, 16 month old and two grandparents in tow - so it's not impossible - did get shouted and scowled at a few times though).

 

You've pared down the gear, which is needed - minimalist.

 

Yes, it will be a much slower way of shooting, but I think the area will lend itself to that. When travelling around with this interesting lady, use it to scout out things and places to come back to and shoot - you can do that with 4x5. Also, get up very early in the am (if you can drag yourself away...) just as things are waking up - actually, just before. Amazing light. The street sweepers are just starting work clearing the squares. The market stalls or just being set up, little old ladies are heading to church...

 

You could also try the mad dogs and Englishmen routine and head out between 12 and 2 when everyone else has slowed down - nice harsh light and deep shadows.

 

Be prepared to spend time chatting with inquisitive people about your camera (although being San Miguel, they will be used to weird gringo artists wandering around doing their thing - in fact, they may even be fed up! Debbie Caffery's workshop is/was down there...).

 

But basically, move slower and enjoy the other parts of the trip as well. Take EW's daybooks Pt I and read about his time in Mexico while you are there...

 

I have my own part of Mexico I go to enjoy just this. Sounds like you could have fun.

I like the press camera idea or maybe the Littman Single is the camera for you (http://www.littman45single.com/).

 

I've traveled with the 8x10" camera and my wife on the same expedition. She usually brings a book to read, and I make sure there are enough pictures of her in exotic locations to make it interesting. We've got a routine that works.

 

The 4x5" is even quicker to set up, so it just depends on how tolerant your traveling companion is. If you're anxious about it, that will only make things worse, so maybe the way to go is just to make sure you've got everything set up so as to minimize setup time--use a QR on the tripod, maybe a folding hood instead of a darkcloth, keep one lens on the camera if you can, etc.

 

I still like the idea of using a press camera for 4x5" on the move.

Seeing in my mind's eye the shots I took in San Miguel a number of years ago, I'd say stick with the smaller format. The percentage of shots that still seem worthwhile lean heavily toward street shooting of people and only a couple of still lives. The Hasselblad seems to offer a good balance between quality and portability. You might also investigate whether any gear is available for rent in San Miguel. If so, you might be able to rent a tripod there and still bring some LF gear. In summary, to me the decision has to do with the sort of photography that will be most effective at a given location. If the destination were Mayan pyramids, I'd probably favor the 4x5 outfit.

You want negative real estate AND speed and spontaneity? Get yourself a Hobo from bostick and sullivan. Hand held 5x7 and 8x10 cameras. You'll look eccentric and no one will want to rip you off because you obviously are INSANE. www.bostick-sullivan.com

 

 

Clay

If you're going on your trip to shoot then I say bring the Ebony.

Luckily the 45SU sets up and shoots very quick compared to

some other folding cameras. Make sure that the woman you're

travelling with knows that you will take some time setting up your

shots and maybe suggest to her that she bring something to do

if she's going to go with you while you shoot.

 

I have a similar problem with my fiancee. She'll wait for me to

set up and shoot with my view camera, but I wind up rushing and

feeling anxious for making her wait. Much of the time this affects

my shots. As a compromise, I bought a Mamiya 7. I know it

doesn't have movements, but 6x7 is fairly close to the 6x9 real

estate of my Ebony 23S.

 

On the other hand, if you're a "run and gun" type of shooter, a 4x5

might not be exactly the right equipment for that style of shooting.

The Hassy seems to be a better option for travel where you're

running around and shooting fast. I find that my work is much

slower and more contemplative when I use the view camera.

Ultimately, it depends on how YOU like to work.

Yes Mark, pick up a Littman Single if you have a few weeks to wait for one to be handmade ... and a few extra thousand dollars lying around.

 

But seriously... Just shut up and take the Hasselblad and enjoy yourself and don't get bogged down.

"I'm itching to dig deeper and work this 4x5."

Do it. You've tried the HB thing, now try the 4by5 thing. You won't know until you try. If you donn't give it a try, you'll always wonder. There are no mistakes in life, only opportunities to learn.

To Bailey,<P>

 

Yes, I agree about the Littman; seems like a good idea til you

actually start using it -- hard to focus, no movements, no real way

to focus close for portraits. And all that for $2300... No way. There

*are* some nice images on Littman's site though, from Cuba,

(but I wonder how the guy got the movements out of the

Littman?).<P>

 

I'm leaning toward the Hasselblad after reading all these

responses. I'm starting to sweat, just sitting here at my desk,

thinking about trying to set that 4x5 up AND try to communicate

with people as well. <P>

 

I *did* buy a gorgeous Baby SuperD that just arrived yesterday.

Retrofitted to shoot Type 665 Polaroid PN. That would be a

possibility too; you'd get a 3.25x4.25 neg, and it's SLR to boot.

But then you're stuck with about two hundred negs in your

backpack, or even worse-- dragging around a tub of Sodium

Sulfite. The only upside, and this upside is huge -- you'd have a

polaroid positive to give to the subjects along the way. My friend

Frank Ward offered that up as a contribution; giving out polaroids

goes a LONG way in the PR department. <P>

 

Leaning toward:<BR>

1 Hassie Body<BR>

2 Lenses<BR>

1 Tube<BR>

Bunch of 220 BW<BR>

I backpack<BR>

1 pair comfortable shoes<BR>

1 Lonely Planet book<BR>

1 pair jeans<BR>

3 shirts<BR>

1 bottle Tylenol<P>

 

(No checked baggage). Thank you all...

"I agree about the Littman; seems like a good idea til you actually start using it ... no real way to focus close for portraits."

 

Actually, what makes the Littman so popular among some fashion photographers is the close-focusing attachment. That's how you get photos like:

 

http://www.littman45single.com/03gallery/gal20.html

 

http://www.littman45single.com/03gallery/gal08.html

 

"I'm starting to sweat, just sitting here at my desk, thinking about trying to set that 4x5 up AND try to communicate with people as well."

 

If I need a larger negative for people/travel photography and I don't need graduated filters, I just take my TLR. If you need to really get close, you can learn to work quickly with a paramender and close-up lenses. It's pretty portable and light. But not something to consider if you don't have experience with using it.

I find my "travel partner" gets annoyed when I DON'T take pictures. "We hiked all the way out here and you're not going to take a picture?" "We drove all over creation and you're NOT going to take a picture?" The 4x5 makes it a little easier. Just click the shutter and don't pull the dark slide. "See honey, I just took four pictures." Just don't teach them about the dark slide. Of course then you'll forget to pull it when you really DO want to take a shot. On my 6x6 I can't fake it as easily. Women do their faking and I do mine. It's only fair and everyone is "happy". Take the 4x5.

Mark, This is a very interesting list of responses. I'm tellin' ya

that I dragged my 8X10 Deardorff all over Yucatan one August

with my wife and young kids. I'd simply go out shooting while the

rest of the gang was resting. Carrying the gear makes it so you

don't have to go to the gym to work out every day.

 

I dragged a large Polaroid 665, a 4X5 pinhole, tripod and a

couple of smaller cameras around Oaxaca for a couple of

weeks. The best shots in retrospect are the pinhole shots.

 

http://www.culturalvisions.com/newsite/pages/visions/mexico/m

exindex.htm

 

You might have to cut or paste that long link.

 

You are a master of the square. Shake up your vision a bit and

go for the rectangle.

 

I also like the idea of just bringing all that wierd lens stuff you

use and simply play with whatever camera on which you can

duct tape the optics.

 

Make this vacation a journey toward new ways of seeing.

Alternatively, you might even find that you like to be with your

traveling companion.

 

Frank

http://www.photoeye.com/frankward

mark, that pn film won't give good neg and prints from the same

sheet. it is pretty much one or the other. but the idea of giving

people prints is a great idea. maybe bring along a cheapie

polaroid to make friends?

 

-m

actually, the other thing that helps is a paintyer who sketches or paints... if you though LF photography was slow!

that should have been "partner who sketches...."

Hobo 5x7 or 8x10 wide angle camera, or save yourself some trouble and use a Horseman 6x12 or Alpa 6x9.

Frank,

 

She's an attorney by day, smart as a whip, and her secret love is

architecture and poetry. So, given that, I should take the 4x5,

because as soon as she spies my out-of-plumb vertical lines on

those buildings, she'll write me off immediately.

 

I promise you guys, before I die, I will invent the Ebony

SteadiCam. No tripid required. Just strap it to your chest and

head out. The closest thing to this that I can think of is the twin

lens GowlandFlex, but it's just a beast.

 

I joked about the monopod idea, where you'd stand firmly with

your own two feet, then extend out the third leg (monopod), and

then carefully load the holder. Either that, or maybe rigging up the

Tilt/Shift lens on the Littman. But the goal is the Walkaround 4x5

that would somehow be SLR; not rangefinder. It just bugs me to

not be seeing what the lens is seeing; some people don't mind

rangefinders, but I cannot deal with them at all. I'm too detached

from the lens' view, the womp, the distortion, and the actual "feel"

of the photo.

 

I am also talking to the Camera Bellows people in England,

about designing me a bellows "viewer" out of their self

supporting material. The Cambo thing that I've got rigged up with

duct tape is OK, not great. You can't move the hot spot around,

so, when you go monkeying with movements, you can't follow the

hot spot. If this self-supporting bellows material was strong

enough, you could mount a 1.5x magnifier in it, and then just use

your forehead to move the thing around, to follow the hot spot.

 

http://www.camerabellows.com

 

-MT, http://marktucker.com/<div></div>