Rolleiflex 2.8f problem

Discussion in 'Medium Format' started by alexander_yarin|2, May 19, 2012.

  1. About 2 mont ago i bought a very nice looking 2.8f on ebay with working meter. but when I put film in it i was shocked. The camera had problem with reflection of light from the rails on which the film lays to film.
    There are two aluminum rails inside camera with two rollers (one above and one bellow in the chamber, inside of the camera chamber is covered with black paint, but the side of this two aluminum film rails are NOT covered with black paint . So when the exposure is made the light goes thrue the lens to the film the reflects from film to this shiny sides of the rails and then reflects back to film, and i am having a negative with both sides overexposed by 3-4 stops
    I was very suprised because this is a factory problem it is not a brocken camera . Doe all Rollei TLRs have side of this rails not covered with black pain

    Besides that there are reflection to film from film roller, this can be seen on the buttom of negatives it is a strait line and usualy appires on 3-4 frames of the roll.
    The light leaks were rulled out by many factors. NO light leaks from the back door , tripod collar, or seal around taking lens, the camera is in greate shape.
    I have covered this rail sides with black paint and this reflection from sides disappired by 80%, but since this black paint that i use not a special camera paint it still reflects light I am still having this 20% of reflection
    Can anyone explain all this
    Regartds
    Alex
     
  2. The flat shiny 'rail' surfaces are machined to the exact distance the film needs to be from the lens. The film lies against those surfaces, pushed against them by the pressure plate. These things are positioned outside of the area lit illuminated by the light coming through the lens.<br>Reflections off these rails requires, first, light reaching those parts outside of the exposed area, and second, light passing through the emulsin, reflected off the back of the film onto the shiny rails, and into the bits that are exposed by the light coming through the lens again.<br>The shiny rollers too lie outside the area that light coming through the lens could reach, i.e. light will have to find it's way there to reflect off the rollers first.<br>And that's where you should be looking for when such reflections occur: what it is that allows light reaching those parts that it normally cannot. Things like not enough pressure exerted by the pressure plate.<br><br>Myself, i have never seen any such problem.
     
  3. Alex,
    You might have a bent back that would require either a replacement or a GOOD TECHNICAN who can "unbent" it back into its original configuration.
    The secondary issue could also be a "warped" or "twisted" body that would require re-alignment.
    Check with with either Harry Fleenor of Oceanside Camera Repair or with Krikor Maralian. I used both for my Rolleiflexes.
    Evan
    ---------------
    Oceanside Camera Repair
    909 Aviation Blvd, #4
    Manhattan Beach. Ca 90266
    harry@rolleirepairs.com
    www.rolleirepairs.com
    Mr Krikor Maralian
    Krimar Photo Shop
    105-B Broadway (Route 4)
    Elmwood Park, NJ 07407
    Telephone (201) 796-0554
    email: krimarphoto@aol.com
    http://www.krimarphoto.com/
     
  4. Alexander, I dont own a Rollei so I am guessing but dont some of them have a type of auto load mechanism in which the film goes under the rollers? Are you putting film under or over?
     
  5. There is not a TLR that doesn't have "shiny rails" or rollers. They are all built that way. Your camera must be messed up some way or other. Light does not reflect, normally, off the surfaces you refer to.
     
  6. WEll thank you for responds BUT, it does not help,
    I am tolking about the sides of the rails ---- it is inside the chamber and light does reflects from it to the film. NOT the rail flat sirfice reflects the light but the sides (it is looks like sidesteps from both sides). I went thrue many listings on ebay looking for inside camera pictures and find out that some cameras has this sidesteps of the rail painted and some do not!!!!!
    I am attaching two pictures one with side of the rail that is not painted( I have seen cameras on e-bay that has inside of the rails painted) and I am attaching the image that is ruined by this reflection.[​IMG][​IMG]
    The film was developed correctly and loaded correctly
    ANY IDEA????
     
  7. And another thing I have just realised that this sidesteps of the rails are intend to put the pressure glass ( some cameras has this option my as well) so I guess when the glass is inside there are no flare but what to do when you do not have a glass plate????
    Look how the glass is laying on the rails it is inside on the sidesteps ( I am not sure if the sidestep is a correct word English is my second langvich) Sorry about that but anyway
    Please look at the picture[​IMG][​IMG]
     
  8. Looking at your fogged picture I think you are right. I used to have a Rollei that took this flat glass and I never had that problem so I don't know how your camera came to be that way. But I do think it would not be hard to get some flat black paint and paint those unpainted sides. I just looked at my current 2.8F and it doesn't take that glass but it is flat black on the inside and only polished on the top.
    Another thing I am noticing with your camera is that it appears you don't have the proper back for the flat glass. So it is strange that you have the flat glass. The back should have a hump at the bottom of the outside and the pressure plate should have 3 settings. Maybe yours has it and I just can't see it. If you do have 3 settings be sure to take it off the glass setting when you are not using glass. That actually might solve your problem.
     
  9. Wait a minute. Again looking at your picture the fogging should be lighter not darker. Extra light would cause extra density on the film which would make it lighter in tone whether it is slide film or negative film, black and white or color. And I see the image of a number. Something very strange here. Again make sure the pressure plate is on the right setting.
     
  10. The pressure plate is on the right setting. To D Purdy. The fogging should be darker more light goes to negative after reflection, I have many tri-x test negatives from this camera and all of it has left and right size more dense then senter so when I scan it the sides appire to be much lighter. Same if I would load film with a lot of light on the sides of the roll that would fogg it. ecxept I load film properly
     
  11. Alexander, I don't know what your camera's problem is, but I can assure you that light leaking in will never cause darkness in the positive image. Fog will cause plus density on a negative which will cause lightness in the positive image. Your picture there has darkening on the sides. There might be fogging in the machine printer at your lab. Fogging on a print will cause darkness like that.
     
  12. Alexander,
    There have been reports of "roller reflection" under some circumstances. The circumstances were: fast film (by 1950/60s standards), high-key images. The subject was portrayed against a very light but not washed out studio background. An even lighter, hardly noticeable band was visible near the edge of the positive. Your bands are darker on the positive. It is not the same problem.
    Please explain how you got the darker bands on prints from negatives with more dense bands.
    I own a Rolleiflex with the flat glass. I agree there is a shiny rim in the chamber to hold the glass. It can be reached by light, but I have never had reflection problems with my style of photography.
    Ferdi.
     
  13. This 'fog' looks am awfull lot like the thing scanners produce when there's light leaking along (or reflecting off something near) the edges of the film.<br>Light is turned into dark. And (a very strong indication) due to the 'demasking' process, the fog assumes the orangy colour of the mask.<br>It's hard to believe it's not scanner related...<br>Did you scan this image yourself, Alexander? And is this band also visible on the negative itself?
     
  14. Alexander, you may have a mis-matched back for that camera. The type of construction of a Rolleiflex means that the back can only be hinged like it is on all Rolleiflex models. If there was an original back that was bent (by direct tripod mounting rather than a Rolleifix) that may be part of the problem. Perhaps someone replaced a bent back with another bent back. But the light/dark thing just doesn't make sense.
     
  15. Thanks to everyone who answer. the camera is in near mint condition with very nice back (not bent in any way), at this moment I belive that this is a scaner that caused all this, I belive that Q.G. de Bakker is right on this one, I have load some more film in the camera and I will now make contact prints to make sure
    I will post my results.
    BUt I also belive that it is a mistake of Rollei to have this shine rims inside the chamber to hold the glas. This is the first camera that I see that has shine part between the lens and film. This things DOES reflects under cirtain conditions
     
  16. Take two steps back and look around. The different density along the edges of your image suggests a possible agitation problem during development to me. I had this same problem occur by not agitating the tank aggressively enough for fear of introducing grain (using manual stainless tanks). Not sure whether it would translate to darkness or lightness along the edges of an image in your case, but this should be investigated further before branding the problem as a flaw with the camera or scanning process.
    Regards,
    Bob
     
  17. Resurrection spell!

    Those definitely do not look like reflected light as they are darker and, as pointed out earlier, more like a development or scanner issue indeed.

    I have the same iteration of 2.8f and since the glass is never used, a quick touch up with a water-soluble matt-black acrylic model paint does the trick and is easily reversible. It completely kills any reflections which only really raise their head if the negative is overexposed heavily: +3ev and up. You are then likely to see some light spilling on the unexposed edges of the negative as well.
     
  18. Did you load the camera in darkness? Could simply be light entering the film from the sides when loading.
     
  19. Not a loading issue but thanks for suggesting that. The light spill intensity decreases towards the black edges of the negative and is visible around overexposed areas.
     

Share This Page