miha_steinb_cher Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 My father owns a beautiful Rolleiflex 2,8F which unfortunately doesn'tfulfill his expectations. Pictures (he shoots Velvia and Reala) couldbe sharper, but the main problem lies with quite prominent colourfringing. He usually shoots stopped down past Planar's optimal range,but one'd nevertheless expect better results.The lens is clean without any visible defects. Thank you! Miha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelging Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 I have a rollei 2.8 D and even stopped all the way down the lens is very sharp. I did just buy a Maxwell screen and It has made all the difference in using this camera. The screen is so much brighter ,and objects snap in and out of focus . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin_lee Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 What is your question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskovacs Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Is there any evidence of a lens swap? Does the serial number on the planar match with the year of production on the camera body? Focusing issues are one thing, but colour fringing on an 80/2.8 Planar, no way that is normal. E.g., somebody could have swapped out the front element from a camera with a prettier-looking one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher perez Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Two things: 1) Is any portion of the image correctly sharp? If so, check the orientation of the focusing screen. 2) The color fringing you describe is very abnormal. All my Rolleiflex give images as crisp and sharp as my Mamiya 7. Any way he can return the camera for a refund? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob haight Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Mike, where did you buy the Maxwell screen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m. Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Sounds like there is something seriously wrong there. What does the taking lens look like? Open the shutter on "B" and look through the film gate at a light source (anglepoise lamp, for example). It should be reasonably clean and clear. Has he recently purchased the camera? If so, take it back and raise the issue. If not, take it to a competent repair person for inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feli Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 I would email Harry Fleenor at http://www.rolleirepairs.com/ He's a highly respected Rollei repair man. feli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelging Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 I bought it from Bill Maxwell direct. If you are interested in buying one I can send you his phone or e-mail. I have to laugh at the threads I researched here about him on Photonet. He does have a tendency to talk your leg off, but in helping you to find the best screen for the way you use your camera,he has too. I was amazed how bright the screen is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miha_steinb_cher Posted March 24, 2005 Author Share Posted March 24, 2005 It's quite impossible for my father to return the camera. He got it as a present from my now late grandfather in early 1970s. He did some B&W back then and didn't notice any misfunctions, although no big prints were made as far as I know. The Rolleiflex has been in use again for last few years and the results are unfortunately inferior to ones obtained from a Nikon with 1.8/50mm lens. Last weekend father asked me to help him with this problem, that's why I'm posting here. I also did a series of shots of a MTF test image an all stops. Haven't got the time to develop the film yet. There is no focusing issue as far as I can say. Both lenses, Planar and Heidosmat are impeccably clean. No chips, no scratches, no cleaning marks, not even any dust inside. There are also no traces of any sort of repair work on the camera and/or lens. The camera itself is mintish, there's only a very minor paint wear at focusing knob and lightmeter's accuracy left something to be desired. I'm unable to date the camera and the lens. Serial numbers are 2470666 (is it the S/N that causes the problems?) for the camera and 5032239 for the Planar. I'll take it to a repair shop I trust, but they're no experts in Rollei. The next option would be one of Rollei's service facilities in Germany. In any case, an advice on what can be done from experienced users is more than welcome. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m. Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Miha, how often has your father experienced this problem? i.e how many films have gone though it recently, and how were they developed? Did they all show the aberration? How did you ascertain that the focus is correct? This problem doesn't have an diagnosis that I know of, but a good repair tech will most probably have an idea, if you take the images along with the camera. Good luck, it sounds like a nice camera, hope you can get it sorted out. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m. Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 By the way, I think the serial number makes it a 2.8F2, probably from between 1966 and 1969, according to my copy of the Rollei TLR collectors guide (Ian Parker). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miha_steinb_cher Posted March 24, 2005 Author Share Posted March 24, 2005 Andy, Colour fringing is present in all pictures with high contrast details near edges and in corners. I'd love to post a sample here, but haven't got any large scans of his pictures and would rather not ask him to send me one in an e-mail, it'd be more pain than it's worth. The fringing can't be seen in small prints, but it's painfully obvious in larger ones, 50x50 cm for example. My father shots few rolls per month on average. Focusing should be, at least reasonably, accurate. I'll do a proper test in next few days, but haven't heared any complaints on this from my father. It's true, however, that he shoots mostly well stopped down and depth of field can cover for some focusing inaccuracy. All C41 and E6 films have been processed by a reliable pro lab, occasional B&Ws are usually processed by my father and sometimes I do it. Best regards, Miha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorm. Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 This is certainly a mystery, but it doesn't sound like focusing. When I read about prints, my first thought is that you've introduced another variable: the enlarger lens (if they're conventional prints). Even looking at a transparency with a powerful loupe brings the quality of the loupe into the results. If an interneg has been made from a trans, yet another lens is involved. Since this problem seems to be causing such anguish, it's important to eliminate as many intermediate steps, and variables, as possible. And then there's the question of filters...too many people put a "protective" filter over the lens and then wonder about the lens quality without considering filter quality. If I were trying to solve this problem, I would make sure the lens is clean (have a professional look at it if necessary), remove all filters, and expose as much transparency film (I'd choose a well-known type) as necessary to cover all of the f-stops and then I'd examine it carefully. If I wasn't sure about what I was seeing, I'd ask an experienced lab tech to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpj Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 HERE ARE SOME CHECKS TO MAKE: 1. At the edge of the film pressure place it should read 6X6cm on one edge and 2 1/4 x 2 1/4" on the other edge (metric and US measurements.) If it reads 24x36mm and 1x1 1/ 2" then the pressure plate has been moved into the position used for adapting the camera to 35mm film. Correcting this is easy. The plate is held by two posts in slots and is spring- loaded. Press down with your thumbs and push the pressure plate TOWARD the camer body to cover the 24x36 marking and uncover the 6x6 cm markings on the side AWAY from the camera body. 2. Make sure the locking clasp pulls the camera shut tightly after changing film by moving the "lock" in the opposite direction from the arrow on the tripod mounting disc on the camera base. (The locking cam should like up squarely with the clasp that fits over the little stud sticking out under the lens mount assembly. 3. When you "focus" the camera, make sure it travels smoothly with BOTH sides of the lens mounting assembly stopping EVENLY when returning to the "infinity setting" which should show the moveable lens assembly fully back against the camera body and square to it. If one side shows a little bright metal color as the black lens assembly side rail comes back to a full stop and the other side shows just "black side rail" then the lens board is out of adjustment and the camera needs disassembly and repair. 4. Make sure the film is being loaded properly, with the lead paper tab going UNDER the first roller next to where the new roll of film sits, and then OVER the other two rollers. 5. Both lenses have a serrated edge retaining ring holding them in place. Catch a serration with your thumb nail or a credit card edge and see if either of these two retaining rings are loose. These are the things you can check yourself. Beyond that, it is up to a competent Rollei repair shop. In the US that would be Krikor who used to be with Marflex in New Jersey (assuming you are in Europe) and you can find his new address in this forum under Rollei and Repairs. Harry Fleenor is on the West Coast in California and also highly recommended. These guys have parts and bench testing equipment to do the job right and both worked for many years for Franke & Heidecke, makers of the Rollei. (Also, absolutely get a Maxwell Screen; you can drop it in yourself on an F-model as the hood is removeable. It is 10X brighter than the original screen and can be had with a split image finder for no extra charge.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miha_steinb_cher Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 Victor, All prints have been made digitally. Negatives and transparencies have been scanned either with an Epson 3200 or an Imacon with same colour fringing results. It's nevertheless more evident in Imacon scans, as they're sharper. Usually no filters are used, so unfortunately this isn't the cause of the problem. CPeter, I'll check the pressure plate orientation as soon as i shoot the roll currently in camera, but I guess it should be in proper position. Camera is locked tightly. Focusing movements are as smooth as they can be IMVHO, lens assembly move evenly on both sides and there is just a fraction of a millimeter of light metal visible when focused to infinity, also evenly on both sides. Film is loaded properly. Both lenses are firmly in their place. I'll take it to a trusted local repair shop after easter holidays for testing, but as they're not specialized in Rollei, I may have to send it to an authorized Rollei facility, probably in Germany (I live in Slovenia, Europe). Thank you very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tito sobrinho Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Miha, in my opinion, the lateral chromatic aberration you encounter, has to do with the lens. Perhaps, it had this problem since new and or, it was dismantled and was not carefully handled upon reassenbly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_s Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 <i>All prints have been made digitally. Negatives and transparencies have been scanned either with an Epson 3200 or an Imacon with same colour fringing results.</i><p>Chromatic aberrations introduced in the scanner or the digital printer. I'm not a digital kind of guy, but I bet this is your problem.<p>Look at your actual chromes under high magnification. I suspect the fringing will be absent from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony_brookes5 Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 It's apity we can't put pictures onto this site - as one can with the Leica forum. I should think then that some of the knowledgeable contributors here could point you in a more precise direction. Your descriptions points to a lens element problem as suggested already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miha_steinb_cher Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 Tito, I'm pretty sure, it's the lens. Actually Calvin's question makes a lot of sense. What am I asking here? Probably looking for a reassurance before taking the camera to repair. Dave, Unfortunately you're wrong. Digitally introduced chromatic aberrations would be present all over the picture, they're visible only on very edges and in corners of my father's images. They'll also show up on pictures taken with another cameras scanned with same scanners. They don't. I know, it's highly unusual for Planar 2,8/80 mm to produce colour fringing and that's the very reason I've posted a question here, but now I can soundly rule out all other possible causes. Anthony, The fringing is violet and sometimes blue on high contrast details like tree branches in front of a much lighter sky. Sometimes it's present on leaves too. It follows a circular pattern, quite visible in corners, less so in image edges and none in image centre. I haven't got any of my father's large images at my computer, only some downsized ones (24x24cm, 300 ppi) for a local photo contest and some fringing can be seen in one, but don't find the image as it is, downsized and jpg compressed, representative enough to post a crop. To all, Is there a reasonable chance for the lens to be repaired in cost effective way? Best regards, Miha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_s Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Hey, sure, maybe I'm wrong, but like I say I'm not a digital kind of guy. This is a weird situation, and this is why. You're describing introduction of a lateral lens aberration that was largely designed out of the Zeiss Planar fifty years ago. This is hard to attribute to a shoddy repair or reassembly. If the taking lens were out of focus, or if you had swing in the lens, or veiling flare, that explanation would make more sense. But this is like saying "I got my lens back from the repair shop, and now it has a lot of coma it didn't have before". If it's a problem in the lens, this is probably something in the glass, and you've got a lemon-- it's been that way since it left Oberkochen. I personally don't think that's likely, but who knows? You have to isolate the lens as the only variable you're testing. Instead of engaging in this, uh, let's say 'onanistic' discussion on photo.net, shoot a test roll of a backlit contrasty subject, and look at the chromes with a low-power microscope. I don't think you've said that you've done that yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miha_steinb_cher Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 Dave, No, haven't tested it with a microscope yet. It's my father's camera and I've had it only since last weekend, more or less to get it repaired. Also, I'm much more digital kind of guy, think of a quality scanner before a microscope. Anyway, as soon I get my hands on a high contrast slide, I'd inspect in under a microscope, have one handy at my lab. Thank you for the advice! It is one of two cameras I know from my childhood, the other is an Exakta Varex IIb I use on regular basis now, and it's always been a symbol of high quality photo gear to me. After my father returned to photography after a hiatus of 25 years, I've been helping him with digital processing (we both found setting up a digital darkroom instead of wet one a more reasonable and way cheaper solution) and soon I discovered the colour fringing problem. It was not so very present to my father, but after a series of 50x50cm prints (made digitally, some scanned at home with Epson 3200, others commercially scanned with an Imacon) he's raised his doubts too. It took him some more months, but now it's up to me to try to get the problem solved. The colour fringing issue puzzles me even more because I own 2 CZJ Biometar 2,8/80 mm lenses as a part of my Exakta gear. It should be the same lens design, yet the performance of ridiculously low priced eastern glass (got one for 18 and other for 22?) shines compared to father's example of Oberkochen masterpiece. Thank you very much for your help! Miha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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