Rolleicord Shutter Bounce Problems

<p>I was retesting the shutter speeds on my favorite Rolleicord w/ Triotar recently. The last roll from it looked unsharp in many of the photos. Instead of getting one spike to measure on my software based tester, I was getting two on the high speed of 1/300. After some googling, I saw that this is a somewhat common problem on old leaf shutters, although this is the 1st time that I've seen it. Supposedly the bounce will only affect images if the subject is moving, but my shots were of stationary objects, and when I zoom in on the scans in PS I see two images, the one image, and what I would call a ghost image. The shutter has been cleaned and everything is working fine, but it's obviously an old shutter with a lot of wear. Has anyone else run into this problem? It looks like I'll have to sell the camera and buy another one w/ a hopefully better shutter that isn't so worn out.</p>

Have you seen the bounce outside the readout of the software tester? Overexposed images too, or just unsharp ones?<br>It could be that it's just the tester that suggest there is a shutter bounce issue. So i think you should check that, make sure before thinking about what to do next.

<p>Is this the "lighter fluid" cleaned or the "ultrasonic" cleaned shutter?<br>

Which shutter (manufacturer name/ lens type) is it?<br>

If the shutter is one in my first question then something is out of sync or still gummy and not moving properly.<br>

The Compur service manual linked in your previous posts only covers shutters made in the 1960"s which are refinements of older designs so it can only be used as a guide if the exact is not available.</p>

<p>I was given a 135mm Xenar in a Compur-Rapid that was stuck and would not operate. The cocking ring has levers permanently attached to it that were rusted in position. Full disassembly, cleaning, reassembly has all speeds 1/100 and slower in tolerance.</p>

<p>I bought a Compur 00 several years ago with rusted shutter and aperture blades for parts. The parts I wanted it for would not work in the shutter needing parts so it sat in a drawer for 15 years. I recently disassembled it, cleaned it thoroughly, reassembled, and speeds 1/100 and slower are in tolerance. Paint is drying on the lens board it will be mounted on with a 90mm Super Angulon attached.<br>

Compur shutters have anti backlash features that prevent secondary exposures caused by shutter blade bounce. Shutters made before the 1930's might have the backlash exposure problem but newer ones don't when correctly serviced and adjusted.</p>

 

<p>No, the shutter is clean as a whistle. Not gummy anywhere. The shots are a little blurry on my monitor after a scan, it's not just the double spikes on the tester. At 1/100, which is actually running at 1/60, the shots are sharp. At 1/300, which tests at 1/180, it's blurry. Both of these measurements are well within spec for a shutter that's 70 years old. The blades themselves are a little loose, which I attribute to just wear over the decades. I wouldn't have any problem just shooting it at 1/100, but when you put a yellow filter on it, and adjust for the actual speed of 1/60, even w/ 400 Tri-X I'm having to shoot at almost f22 even in bright sun. Obviously handholding it at slower speeds will be tough, even if I wasn't running out of f stops. I'd better post a couple of shots here to illustrate this.</p><div></div>

<p>Shot at 1/300</p><div></div>

<p>Crop of above shot. Not so sharp</p><div></div>

<p>Here's another one. This looks sharp, sorta</p><div></div>

<p>but isn't</p><div></div>

<p>I read the instructions that came w/ the tester very thoroughly, and he mentions shutter bounce on older leaf shutters being not uncommon. The data states that if the second spike is 1/4 to 1/3 of what the first spike is, probably not too much to worry about. He also states that you have to add the two spikes together really to get an accurate speed. On mine, I get one spike on all the speeds until I get to 1/300, where I get a second spike that is even bigger than the first! If I were to add the two together it would be quite slow. I am almost sure at this point that I have severe shutter bounce, probably due to the wear on the shutter blades and related parts. Basically, I was wondering if anyone else has run into this. Thanks.</p>

<p>If there is noticeable play in the shutter blades on their bearing pins then there is not much one can do except to replace the shutter blades. I have made shutter blades for a Packard shutter and a Wollensak Studio Shutter from some expired, unprocessed 4x5 Portra with success.</p>

<p>Making shutter blades for a Compur might be a little more difficult. A piece of thin mylar or unprocessed Fuji C41 120 format film (3.5 mil thick) cut to fit the back end of the shutter blade, glued to the blade with contact cement, and new pivot holes drilled in the film might work if there is enough gap in the housing to allow it.</p>

<p>The Compur-Rapid I put back into service is a stop slow above 1/50, not 1/100 as previously stated and the Compur 00 is 1/2 stop slow at 1/250 and 1 stop slow at 1/500. Fast speeds are controled by spring tensions so there is not much one can do about them.</p>

<p>I have encountered one or two shutters with worn bearing/pivot holes in the shutter blades but not to the point of causing secondary exposures.</p>

 

<p>The bounce should be fixable by damping the rotating ring that opens and closes the blades. The old "gum" removed was probably doing that job quite nicely. Using the highest speed setting is causing the ring to overshoot or hit its endstop hard enough to bounce back. A small piece of card or thick paper stuck over the ring's endstop should have sufficient braking effect to stop or reduce the bounce. Either that or introducing a <em>tiny</em> amount of viscous grease under the actuator ring guides.</p>

<p>Great suggestion. Thanks! I am hesitant to introduce grease into the shutter, as I'm not sure I'll actually be able to confine it to the right areas, but will definitely try the card/paper idea. The blades do have a lot of wobble at the point where they're attached. I love the idea of making the shutter blades themselves. Probably more effective to just buy another shutter, but if I knew what I was doing on that (I don't) it would sure make sense. There's always the possibility I could go w/ my top good speed of a real 1/60 and rate the film speed lower, then adjust for that in development. That's one of the many things I love about film. You have so many options and work arounds, where w/ digital you usually have just two. Send it our for an expensive repair, or replace it. I sure want to get it going again so a can take some pics, because having just sold my Rolleiflex w/ Planar, and comparing the pics from it to this old 'cord w/ a 3 element lens, the 'cord holds it's own in most situations. No, it isn't as sharp across the image, but it's real sharp in the middle and has a nice IQ.</p>

<p>I have a print copy of the Compur service manual linked to in previous posts, it does not have the shutter for your camera in it.</p>

<p>The attached photo is the Compur-Rapid I recently serviced. It is possibly from the mid 1950's. The Compur 00 is from late 1940's and its build is the same as the Compur-Rapid without flash sync so your shutter will be very similar if not the same.</p>

<p>Arrow points to the blade actuator.</p><div></div>

<p>Shutter blades on plate, plate removed from case. Case sits onto plate then screws from rear of case hold the two together.</p><div></div>