Ripoff Ebay

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by jay_briggs, Sep 18, 2011.

  1. Today I bid on a nikon f3 with 2 lenses,35mm 28mm. and I...I had high bid on the screen and I counted it down till 0 sec my bid waw $275 hi bidsaid in email hay stay in you've got the high bid,but when it hit "0" my screen went down and I lost the bid, so I called ebay they said sometimes there's a hidden bider. I said why wasn't his bid on the screen . Ebay said i was highest bidder, but the camera went to someone who bis $374.14 how can that be it's an auction not a stet up. there was no reserve. He said it came with two lenses 35mm 28mm,but picture showed at least a 50mm. i messeged him and asked what was up with that? he said "it comes with 2 lenses"
    i counted down to "0" and nobody entered a bid bit the winning bid was $374.14??? why would someone jump that high when they could have hit $300. but there was no time. I clearly won. ebay said they get a lot of there complaints. Come on, its suposed to be an auction not a set up where his brother or he could out bid the hell out of the high bid (too low for him) but there was no time on the clock. has anyone experienced this kind of bullshit? Ebay gave me the run around. it's joke, how can you win a camera with a decent price without getting shafted?
     
  2. 1) take two quarters and go phone someone who cares........
    2) build a bridge and get over it...........
    3) don't waste p.net Nikon forum space with an issue that relates to your perceptions of a scam / dodgy eBay auction or otherwise
    Subject: Ripoff Ebay​
    If you did not pay for the auctioned item then how do you consider yourself ripped off. There are plenty more F3's out there. If someone wants to outbid you , be it at the very last moment allowable under eBay's rules then that indicates the market price of the item...... if you don't like the price don't buy it.....
     
  3. I had this happen to me in the UK some time ago.Lost out at the last few seconds.After the auction ended I got an email from the seller saying the winner had backed out and he was giving me a "second chance offer".It is a known fact that some sellers have some friend place a higher bid just to put the price up.It is just a chance you have to take.There are some rouges out there.
     
  4. Sorry everyone, I am new at photograpy and was trying to get an inexpensive camera. Didn't mean to ruffle your sensibilities.
    Regards
    Jay
     
  5. There is no "ripoff", just your lack of understanding how it works.
    In last few seconds of bidding there are too many bid submissions for the server to handle and update your screen instantly. All bids are in a queue, not being able to process that fast.
    Once it is over, the highest bidder wins. It is that simple. No fraud, no wrong doing.
     
  6. "There is no "ripoff", just your lack of understanding how it works...Once it is over, the highest bidder wins. It is that simple."
    Exactly. You got outbid by a last second snipe bidder. There is no fraud. There is no scam. There is nothing fishy going on. Someone was will to pay more than you were for the auction. In actual fact for that particular auction (which I happened to be watching), there were *FOUR* people willing to pay more than $275 and they all bid within the final few seconds, which is why the closing bid jumped to $373.14.
    You lost. Next time bid the maximum amount you are willing to pay. If nobody else is willing to bid more than you, you will win. It's that simple.
    Take Matthew Brenan's #2 advice above.
     
  7. This is one of the many reasons why I do not ever ever ever buy something on an eBay auction. Too annoying. There are other places to find a good camera, like the classifieds here which, although occasionally littered with some scam artists, has served me well both buying and selling. Adorama and KEH are also pretty good for used gear, and I've had some good luck with georgeury.com.
     
  8. Frank has it right. I've worked at a company that holds several US patents on the types of activity that
    can happen as an auction comes to it's closing time. It's far more complex than it may appear on the
    surface. I don't know ebay specifically does.

    That said, this is a known part of the game with auctions. Generally, the auction house (ebay in this
    case) fees make it difficult for people to benefit from having "friendly" bidders drive the price up. If they
    get stuck with it, they still pay the fees and end up owning what they already owned. Now they have to
    incur more fees to list and sell the item. I guess if you have a enough time, you might be able to figure
    out how to make this work in your favor but it's pretty risky.

    Finally, the number one rule in auctions is do not get emotionally involved in the transaction. Find the
    maximum price that you are willing to pay for the product and don't bid one cent above that. I always win
    this way.

    Good luck.
    --Wade
     
  9. 2 words.
    auction. sniper.
     
  10. Lets just say that you were prepared to enter what would have been the winning bid seconds before the auction's end and your internet service goes out or your power goes out, is that also eBay's fault?
    Snipe programs are available to everyone. So the playing field is level. You can also enter your maximum bid at any time before the auction ends. Although this is not the best way to get the lowest price, you are covered as far as your maximum bid being placed.
     
  11. What happened to the first F3 you were writing about? Was it nonfunctional? But anyway, the snipers are annoying but they're just other bidders who use a tactic of getting their bid in at the last possible moment, on the theory that this will catch other bidders unawares, and they won't respond with bids, which would drive the price up. This probably worked in the old days when one might be the only sniper on a particular auction, but now when everybody's doing it it's just annoying. What I do is, when my iPhone eBay program gives me an item ending alert for something on my watch list that I want to bid on, which is 15 minutes before the auction ends, I bid the amount I'd be willing to pay for it, then ignore it until an email about whether or not I won.
     
  12. Here's a very recent thread with a link to an article my me about how to buy on eBay, with some other useful advice added by others.

    http://www.photo.net/casual-conversations-forum/00ZKbv

    As already said in this thread, you should use a sniping service.
     
  13. That's called sniping. It is the best way to e-bay, wait until 2 seconds left and then place your highest bid. I hated it at first, then I understood why.

    I remember when I collected special old lightbulbs off ebay, but I wasn't the only one. When one came up for sale I would place my bid and the other guy would place his. Then, I would mull over it for some time and decide it was worth more so I would up my bid andbe highest. He would then mull, and up his until he was highest. Back and forth, back and forth we went convincing ourselves the item was worth more or we had to have it. Then, he started sniping. I would place my bid and he stopped placing his. I watched it and 2-3 seconds left bang he won the bid! That infuriated me, especially since he got it much cheaper and I didn't have time to respond. This happened a few times, and finally I understood THAT is the best way to e-bay. You don't give your opponents time to think about it, mull over it, and then decide it's worth more than they originally thought and up their bids so you now have to pay more if you want it.

    If you want to e-bay, the cheapest way is to wait until the last 2-3 seconds and bid as much as you want to pay for it and fully expect there are others waiting for the last 2-3 seconds. I can't tell you how many times I've seen something jump from $99 to $350+ in the last few seconds when 7-10 people snipe.
     
  14. There is no shortage of F3's on ebay, just try again. If you have no patience for that, buy from KEH - their F3 body in bargain condition is $180 -$190.
     
  15. SCL

    SCL

    You are probably new to auctions and don't have a full understanding of how they work. Many serious buyers use auction sniping software where they can enter a bid hours or days in advance and that bid isn't executed until the last second or two before the end of the auction. People who are bidding against that type of software can't possibly manually keep up with the bidding process. It doesn't guarantee you will win the auction, but it significantly improves the odds in your favor. Anyway...chalk it up to experience. There are lots of other opportunities to get the camera of your dreams. I usually do my research on completed auctions, KEH, etc to determine a fair price for the condition of an item, and sometimes need to enter 5-6 auctions to get what I want at a fair price (I do use sniping software). OTOH, if you have lots of money....just enter a high bid and you'll usually get what you want.
     
  16. Most all of my photo gear has come from eBay and I've had no problems. I'm talking thousands and thousands of dollars worth of stuff. For most of my really old historical equipment such as 1860 Petzval, 1875 Petzval, and 1885 tailboard camera, eBay is about the only regular source I know of. If I really want something bad, I will put a bid of triple what I think it's worth. That always seems to circumvent the last second guys, but I have had to pay some big bucks twice. Otherwise, for common stuff like a Nikon F3, just simply be patient. Eventually you will catch one at a good price. As for the guy not seeming to know what lenses he had, that isn't all that uncommon. I don't like buying from those sorts of people if I can help it, unless the item is very rare and I got some basic questions answered.
    Kent in SD
     
  17. I'll admit that I'm a sniper, but I'm an honest one. I've heard of those services but don't use them. If I can't be at the computer when an auction ends, I don't bid. I've rarely bought anything from an auction lately since so much is available as "Buy It Now" with a low price & free shipping.
    I only bid on "sleeper" items - those with 0 bids or only a couple in the last minutes of the auction. If I find what I want/need but it has 10 bids with 5 days to go, you can bet it's going to go higher than I'm willing to pay and I'd only be helping the seller by getting in the game. People don't seem to realize that they are pushing the price up by bidding days in advance.
     
  18. Below is a copy of some of the completed auction bids for the F3 I think that's being discussed, for purposes of showing what went down. (There are some lower down (lesser amounts), but couldn't get them on a single page to scan)
    "Nikon F3 35mm SLR Camera with 2 Lenses and Motor Drive"
    Item number:[​IMG]260852417268
    00ZM0x-399797584.jpg
     
  19. I never bid on an item till 8 seconds left, and take my chances. I have gotten some amazing stuff, very reasonable.
     
  20. Sometimes sniping is the only way, and a reason why ebay provided the "one click" bid tool. There has been a surge in the popularity of using vintage lenses on 4/3rds, etc, and prices on otherwise cheap glass has hit the roof. Many times I will bid low to get onboard, then put my intended max price into the "one click" tool and fire away at the last few seconds. Many times the winning bid will be double what I consider it's worth. No loss for me. I just move on to the next copy and repeat. I can wait.
     
  21. As said, calm down and learn how to bid on eBay. The auction ain't over until the last bid comes in.
    As Pete says, if you want it cheaper you have to be patient and not bid the dang thing up until the last possible moment. Sometimes you win, but sometimes you don't. That's where the patience comes in. Find a new one and bid again.
     
  22. Well, there is a possibility for fraud in this type of case. I had one recently on a non-photo item. I had the high bid, no
    reserve. Left it knowing that I could be out bid. But, was surprised the next day when I was not only out bid, but
    outbid by almost twice what the item should sell for. And I'm not talking a few hundred dollars, but rather like $10,000
    more than the item was worth. The bids came in less than a minute apart, and the bidders had not made a bid in
    lthat category of items in over 30 days. So, I reported to eBay, will most likely never know if anything was done about
    it.

    The point is that, while not ripped off, the OP may have a fraud case against the seller if the seller employed friends
    to run the price up to avoid selling at too low of a price. In this case, maybe not what happened. But, it does happen.
     
  23. If you bid at eBay you want this program, ITS FREE
    http://www.jbidwatcher.com/
    Click the link at top right corner that says DOWNLOAD NOW, First choose Tab MAC or WIndows

    Many times have have felt cheated being out bid by less than the incremental bid but thats how it is..
    Use this Sniping program as a wise man once said " If you can't beat'em, join'em"
     
  24. The point is that, while not ripped off, the OP may have a fraud case against the seller if the seller employed friends to run the price up to avoid selling at too low of a price. In this case, maybe not what happened. But, it does happen.
    Yes, it does happen, but a lot less frequently than some would like to believe. In this case it clearly did not, and there is no "maybe" about it. Anyone with an eBay account and a clear understanding of how eBay auctions work can look at the publicly viewable bid data for this auction and see that there was no shill bidding in the final minute of the auction. No fraud, no ripoff, nobody got "shafted", no "buddies" shill bidding to hike up the price; just a completely normal auction with some experienced bidders where there was only one winner. The auction winner and the next two highest bidders were experienced bid snipers. It's as plain as the nose on your face if you know what to look for.
     
  25. Most ebayers in the KNOW use these Sniper programs to keep the auction prices down..
    No matter how high the bid given enough time someone will bid more..
    With these auction programs bid to win not to just out bid the current bid..
    If you sign in do a search for what your looking for and near the bottom of the right side of an ebay page is an option to view COMPLETED AUTIONS this will show you the last 30 days of what the items in your search have sold for, helpful in guessing how much to bid..
     
  26. E-Bay gets a little part of each sale. The higher the price a item sells for = more ca$h for E-Bay. It is not exactly rocket science that you feel sad. Just look at the brighter side: less of your money will go to support E-Bay....
     
  27. Another good place to shop for used photo stuff is shopgoodwill.com. Not saying you'll never get sniped there, but at least there are no listing fees, insertion fees, yada yada, the seller will hit you up for because the merchandise belongs to the Goodwill in the first place. Right now, they have 42 Nikon cameras and lenses and other stuff for Nikon currently running. It's always a surprise what they offer. I've even seen several Mamiya, Bronica, and Hassie MF outfits listed there!
    Be aware, though. With the Goodwill auctions, you pays your dime, you takes your chances - there are never any guarantees. Everything is sold AS-IS. But I have gotten some really sweet deals there over the years. A NOS Canon AE-1 Program with lens and original leather hard case; same with a Nikon FG plus filters and new flash; and a beautifully preserved black Pentax KX. Never paid over $55 for any of them. Their shipping is fast and reliable, and besides - you know your money is going to a worthy cause with them.
    I will warn you they aren't very good about responding to email questions, but you usually get enough decent photos of the items to make a reasonable judgment call.
     
  28. By the way, since you're new to photography and want to get into it on a budget, do you absolutely have to have Nikon to begin with? 'Cause you just about can't go wrong with a Pentax K1000 for a totally manual starter camera. The better ones say Asahi Pentax and carry the Pentax logo on the prism.
    They are plentiful, often come with at least two decent lenses, and don't sell for a whole lot of money, usually around $50 or less. And when you're ready to move on, you can usually recoup your initial costs when you sell it.
    Good luck!
     
  29. To everyone who took the time to write me about the ebay auction process I give my heart felt thanks. So fars all on this forum has been kind and helpful to this rookie and his sometimes goofy questions and observations.
    Best regards to all,
    Jay
     
  30. Well, if you want to make this easy on yourself, just use Keh.com and get something like this: http://www.keh.com/camera/Nikon-Manual-Focus-Camera-Outfits/1/sku-NK019990586920?r=FE - that gets you a great introduction to manual focus Nikon film stuff, with great usability (pick whatever exposure mode you feel comfortable with and get to shooting), no hassles and 6-month warranty.
     
  31. My personal ebay bidding rules of thumb:
    0) If you're really new at ebay then do not jump into bidding for expensive items straightaway. Gain some experience of the whole process by bidding for relatively cheap stuff that you'll need anyway (lens bags, caps, cleaning kits etc). Put some of the expensive stuff in your watchlist so you can analyze the listing and bidding history after it ends, don't bid on it though until well after you've figured out what looks like a genuinely good listing ending at a truly good price.
    1) Never Never Never Ever bid early on a regular auction. Bidding early on ebay means 15 seconds or longer before the auction ends. Jbidwatcher is a great tool to automate sniping, just be mindful that it sometimes needs a few days to catch up on smaller or greater changes in ebay's web mechanics. If you're going after a big ticket item, first try test sniping something unimportant that costs just a few bucks (lens cap or such) and ends a few hours earlier, to make sure your sniping software works fine that day.
    2) Never assume the item you're thinking of bidding on is the only one of its kind that you'll ever see on ebay. There will be others. For most items (including photography gear) there will be sooooo many others.
    3) Keep looking through the listings until you find one that states: A. the item is in full working order, B. the seller will allow you to return it for a refund, C. the auction ends on a weekday or a long holiday weekend, D. the ending time is before 8am or after 7pm. E. there are clear pictures showing the item with enough sharpness and closeness. (if you ever get to selling on ebay, D means that as a seller you should always list your item to end between 10am and 3pm-ish on a weekend that isn't a holiday)
    4) Avoid items from other continents not because the sellers are more likely to be dodgy, but because it is often difficult for them to quote you shipping costs that are correct AND insured AND still affordable - plus it will be even more difficult/costly for you to return the item in case there's a problem with it and you're more likely to miss out on paypal transaction if you're not fully familiar with their requirements for protection on international transactions.
    5) If there are two or more similar listings ending within a short time of one another then snipe at least on the first and last ones (bidding on more of them is fine too). Sometimes people go crazy over the first and then the last one ends for a pittance, and sometimes everyone thinks they'll wait for the last one and then the first listing ends much lower. jbidwatcher has a multisniping option that will prevent you from unintentionally winning two or more identical items.
    6) IF the item you're thinking of bidding on REALLY is the only one of its kind that you'll ever see on ebay, then it's probably the worst possible thing ever for you to risk bidding on in. Tell yourself ten times: no matter what the listing says, it's probably broken and the seller won't refund. If after you complete this drill you really still want to gamble a bid on it, then bid no more than what you think is a fair price for that kind of unique item in "for repair" condition.
    7) Always send the seller an ebay message a few days before the listing ends. There's most always something left out from the listing that you'll want to see confirmed in writing. Even if there isn't, ask them something along the lines of "Hi, could you please confirm that there are no problems with the XXX as that part is known to fail relatively often on the camera/lens in question." Don't bid if you received no response, or if the response is fishy (evasive, genuinely or falsely ignorant, all uppercase or text messaging style, pushy like "this other guy tells me he'll bid on it for sure so you'd better bid quick" etc etc). An unimpressive response before the sale guarantees even lousier responsiveness from the seller if there are any issues after the sale.
    8) Always bid slightly below what you're really willing to pay (and that should include shipping, sales tax etc). If you're not sure what you're willing to pay, look for a BGN rated specimen of the same item in KEH and take about 10% off their price - deduct more if the listing or pics suggest any visible cosmetic wear or damage.
    9) Never Never Never Ever bid a round number. Don't bid $100, go instead for $103.78
    You will probably lose out a number of times before you score, but remember that with ebay losing costs you nothing - unlike the real ripoff websites such as quibids and other penny auctions. If you persist with the above tactics then you will sooner or later get your item at a price that justifies ebay/paypal hassles and risks. If you're not sure you want to take ebay/paypal hassles and risks then just buy it from KEH instead, or from the for sale section of an active and helpful member of the appropriate brand-dedicated user forum.
    It took me quite a while to figure out all of the above and I did get suckered more than once, but eventually it became a natural routine and served me well. The $.78 trick has gotten me through for about once of every twenty wins on average. That said, it's still not the whole story by a long shot - there are a number of other things you'll need to learn about as well (evaluating seller's feedback ratings, buy it now listings, reserve prices, best offers, how to use paypal and what not to do with paypal etc).
    Most importantly, there are many warning signs of dodgy listings that you'll need to learn to suss out. Never give out your email or send to the seller's email before the transaction is over, avoid listings full of hype, uppercase and/or small print, avoid "I just got this from an estate sale" or "my friend is asking me to list this" etc etc. Over 95% of ebay sellers are absolutely on the level, but it's the few percent of scam artists whose listings will be designed to look most attractive to an ebay novice.
     
  32. Rule No. 10) Do not bid on any item where the seller claims that he is not responsible for items getting lost in the post. This is contrary to both ebay's rules and the law.
    It might not be his fault if it gets lost but it is his responsibility.
     
  33. @Paul: about "full working order"

    This applies to newer items, but most of the time I'm buying a classic camera and the seller does not know. My most
    important buys have been of that kind.
     
  34. I wouldn't worry too much about Rule No. 10.
    It doesn't matter what the seller claims about responsibility for delivery. I often see this statement in listings from rookie sellers that are otherwise genuine, but they are simply blissfully ignorant of their obligations for safe delivery to you. I don't let that stop me from bidding on an item that is otherwise accurately and honestly described. The eBay seller policy rules trump all seller declarations, and if the item is lost and not delivered you can file an "Item not received" claim within 45 days with eBay or Paypal. The seller will then be required to provide on-line proof that the item was in fact delivered to your address. He/she won't be able to, and eBay or Paypal will refund your payment.
     
  35. and eBay or Paypal will refund your payment.​
    If that is the case and ebay/Paypal take the risk, then it's not so much of a problem than trying to get the seller to give a refund.
     
  36. eBay/Paypal really don't take any risk if they have to refund a payment because a seller refuses to do so. Except in very, very rare circumstances, they will get the money back from the seller one way or another.
    I have been buying and selling on eBay for close to 10 years. Trust me when I say that the process is very heavily weighted in favour of the buyer if anything goes awry, regardless of where the fault lies.
     
  37. That's true. If they have control of the seller's money via Paypal then there is no risk to them. Good point.
    Perhaps I won't steer clear of these mis-informed sellers in the future!
     
  38. I've done a lot of selling on eBay. One time a buyer demanded a refund because the item didn't meet his expectations, which he readily admitted were unreasonable because he had not read the item description. He got his refund anyway, by going through his credit card company.
    Rule 11: Make your Paypal payments originate from a credit card.
     
  39. "Sniping" is one of the best things to come to Ebay. I've used "Ezsniper" for years. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. There's always tomorrow. It's simple. You put in the largest bid that you are RATIONALLY willing to pay, then walk away. No more staring at your computer until 2am. No more sweating bullets waiting. No more irrationally bidding way over your limit in the heat of the battle. Anyone who whines that they were beaten in the last second is only trying to lowball. Those days are over. O-VER.
    Sniping: Simple. Painless. The ONLY way to bid on Ebay.
     
  40. Few things I learned..
    1. AS IS is not as is to eBay if listed under USED DISCRIPTION TAB next to Shipping Tab it must be "fully operational and functions as intended" I have asked about this and was told by eBay used items must work.. to list a item under AS IS you have to sell it under For parts or not working...
    2. Save images to deskktop and use photo viewer to zoom in for a better look..
    3. Don't be shy in asking questions or if there is any other pictures seller can email you.
    4. Most people are very good at their core and dont get angry if your item arrives damaged or not as expected..
    5. If you get something other than the discription you can contact eBay or Paypal to get a refund but you pay return shipping.. This takes a month or more to run its coarse.. Best to settle with seller if you can..
     
  41. I've done a lot of selling on eBay. One time a buyer demanded a refund because the item didn't meet his expectations, which he readily admitted were unreasonable because he had not read the item description. He got his refund anyway, by going through his credit card company.
    Rule 11: Make your Paypal payments originate from a credit card.​
    Unfortunately most (all?) credit cards no longer have built-in payment reversal written in the legal small print. These days you can only expect a reversal from your CC company or bank if the faulty purchased goods cost you over $50 and were bought in-state or within less than 100 miles across state borders. This is a relatively recent and under-reported change in the wake of the 2008 crunch, but as far as I can tell it now shows up in all CC terms of service statements.
    Doesn't matter nearly as much for in-store purchases but for ebay stuff it renders credit cards a lot less useful as a first layer of protection compared to just a few years ago. On the other hand, it seems paypal protection has become (even) stronger in favor of buyers these days and I've personally had no trouble getting refunds from paypal on faulty goods from AWOL sellers. Just make sure you keep records of all messages and payment-related statements pertaining to each transaction (eg have ebay and paypal automatically forward all their messages to an email account under your full control and preferably dedicated to ebay/paypal stuff only & never share that email address with anyone else). That way you can properly document your side of the story for any claims or disputes that might arise. Plus you'll have an easier time recognizing ebay/paypal mimicking phishing, scam or spam in your other email accounts, since those will almost never arrive in your secret & dedicated email account.
     
  42. You need to read all of the above. Decide before you bid how much you want to pay. Make one bid seconds before the end of the auction. If you get out bid then look again. Bidding wars only benefit the seller. Sniping is the best way to save money. You will almost always find another item. If you bid 275 and the final bid was 374 more than one person bid after you.
     
  43. One thing others mentioned and I'll stress - don't pay more for an auction item than what it costs to get it from KEH. I see this happen (even bidding on items whose sellers don't have much history) now and then and I'm dumbstruck that anyone could get so caught up wanting something that bad. Worse is buying from other auction sites like Goodwill's where they explicitly say there is no warranty and most Goodwill locations selling on the shopgoodwill.com site do not even test the equipment.
    Other than that, snipe is your friend. It's been done for ages, and for a long time there has been automated bidding software instead of having you hovering over the keyboard to enter your last second bid.
     
  44. Sniping: Simple. Painless. NOT The ONLY way to bid on Ebay.​
    I corrected that for you!
     
  45. what the fish! get a grip Jay...i mean get a grip on yourself - or even an F3 grip and forget the gripe
     

Share This Page