Revised Forum Guidelines - Please Read

Dear Forum,

<p>

Along with invaluable feedback (and some pressure :-) from my

assistant forum moderator, Josh Root, I have revised the <a

href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/policy?topic_id=1548">Forum

Guidelines</a> (also printed below in this post) so that we can

better manage the forum. Our primary goals are to keep the forum

solidly on topic whilte at the same time increasing the signal to

noise ratio.

<p>

The guidelines have not dramatically changed, but they have gotten a

bit more strict. It was a long time in the coming, and that we must

be more rigid in forum moderation was inevitable. We are, afterall,

the busiest photo.net forum.

<p>

Formulating guidelines for such a busy forum is difficult to say the

least, and the product is never perfect. Therefore, Josh and I will

work together (and maybe argue a bit) over the next week, two weeks

or whatever by reading your responses to this thread and perhaps

making a few further adjustments to what I have here.

<p>

I want to take this opportunity to thank you for your participation

within the forum and for making it the very best place on the

internet to discuss Leica photography. When I first created this

forum several years ago (when it was hosted by www.greenspun.com, I

had no earthly idea the extent to which it would eventually grow.

Wow!

<p>

Thank you!

<p>

Tony Rowlett<br>

Forum Moderator

<p>

<center><b><i>The Revised Guidelines</i></b></center>

<p>

<ol>

<li>No "Film v. Digital" threads allowed, unless the discussion is

about a very specific application.

 

Forum moderators pay particular attention to these types of

dicussions.

<li>Questions about non-Leica brands are generally not allowed. For

other camera brands, please

look to <a href="http://www.photo.net/community/forums">other forums

on

Photo.net</a> that are more appropriate.

<li>As other companys manufacture Leica-related/compatible gear,

discussion of these

 

products -- such as Canon screw mount, Voigtlander, Konica, Russian

screw mount -- is also acceptable.

<li>All decisions by forum moderators are final. If you wish to

register a complaint, write

to a moderator directly through email. All complaints about forum

moderation are subject to deletion without notice.

<li>No profanity allowed. Posts that contain profanity are subject

to deletion.

<li>Please be respectful and supportive of one another. Personal

attacks and flame wars will subject

 

threads to editing or deletion.

<li>Please use the search function or browse through existing threads

before posting a new question. You will probably locate a similar

question and possible answers.

<li>Please categorize your questions. Questions left in

the "uncategorized" category are subject to

 

categorization or deletion at any time without noice.

<li>Please formulate good subject titles. Questions with titles

like "A Question" don't make it easy

 

for other members to find answers.

<li>Questions about digital cameras (other than those made by

Leica) should be posted in the

<a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a.tcl?topic=Digital%

20Cameras&topic_id=1841">Digital Camera

 

Forum</a>. Questions or comments

about digital scanning, processing, or printing should be posted in

the

<a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/forum?topic_id=1701">Digital

Darkroom forum</a>.

<li>Photographs posted for critique or display are allowed provided

that they can be classified as fitting within the "rangefinder"

style. It is preferable that posted photography be made with a

Leica, but this is not a hard rule.

<li><b>For Sale/Want to Buy/Want to Trade</b> posts are acceptable

if they are by a private individual, preferably a

regular forum user. No such posts are allowed from retail sales

outlets of any kind.

<li>All FS/WTB/WTT posts must be appropriately titled as FS: (or

WTB: or WTT:) followed by a

brief item description and asking price (if FS:).

<li>All FS/WTB/WTT posts MUST be categorized in the "For Sale/Wanted

to Buy" category so that they

may be properly flagged for expiration. Currently, the expiration

time is 30 days after the post

is made.

<li>Off-topic threads of a humorous or of temporary common interest

will

likely be allowed. Please use "OT: <suject>" as the title of your

post. Off topics posts are subject to expiration depending on their

long-term informational value.

</ol>

Time for me to take a less present existence on the Leica forum. Along with a future monetary contribution. When your asst. moderator posts photos of his probably non-Leica made Halloween shots, and then cryptically talks of deleting other threads that are of equal pertinence, it's time to hit the road.

I meant to add that updates to the new guidelines will be reflected in the forum <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/policy?topic_id=1548"><b>About</b></a> section, and not in my origianl post (above). And, I already have some changes to make! (Thanks, Josh!)

Yes James, but see item 11. Evidently his image fit in with the (ill-defined) "rangefinder" style.

James, three questions for you. 1) Which rule was broken by Josh, and 2) which rule specifically allows what Josh did with his halloween post? ( I can think of two that allow...) and 3) Did you actually read the new guidelines?? C'mon.... if I made a mistake, tell me. Don't threaten to run off in a huff.

Lighten up James! There is a lot of leeway still in the new guidelines...in fact it seems all they are doing is restating what we already know. Flame wars, and the incessant digi vs film is in fact quite annoying in my opinion.

These guidelines were somewhat overdue. This is a very interesting forum with some fine contributors - always willing to help solve problems. Unfortunately some seem to have had burnt toast for breakfast and unload a bit here. A mature considerate approach would be appreciated not only by the moderators but also by most of the participants. I, for one, plan to stick around.

Rule 5. that doesn't allow profanity. "pimptog" contains the profane word pimp. A pimp is an individual who manages prostitutes.

 

I don't see where the "Competitive Art" post below breaks the rules, it certainly falls under Rule 15. But why is Josh letting his pimptog post last for 7 days while the competitive art post he'll delete in 3 days.

 

Also, I just don't like the tone of Rule 4. I think as a community it is important that a group discuss certain relevant matters that may include moderation.

My main focus in leaning on Tony to update the guidelines is to try and make the photo.net archives a more useful & less cluttered place. We're in a unique position here on the Leica forum in that we have a real community based here. It started talking about Leica gear and the use of it. But as people hung around longer, we started to discuss other things as well. I've never met 99% of the people here in real life, but I've made some neat friends I think.

<P>

So we want to keep the interesting discussions going, but also make sure that the archives aren't cluttered up (any more than they already are) and keeping things organized by topics as best as possible.

<P>

I will be moving threads to other forums if they don't fit here. If you ask about a Canon EOS lens here, the thread is going to end up in the Canon EOS forum very quickly. But on the other side of the coin, we've had lots of OT threads recently that are funny or interesting but have nothing to do with Leica (or even photography) and have no use in the archives. These types of threads will be set to expire a few days after they are posted.

<P>

<b>PLEASE</b>, if you are any sort of a smart considerate person at all, don't make ranting "why was my thread deleted" posts or send insulting angry e-mail to the moderators. We are human, we do make mistakes and if you feel wronged you can bring it up with us. But I can almost <b>guarentee</b> that none of the moderators will even consider replying to you if all you can come up with is a string of childish insults. Send a polite well written e-mail, and you will likely get one in return.

<P>

There is a reson that so many of us have stayed involved with the Leica forum and Photo.net for so long, (I just noticed that tomorrow will be 5 years that I have been registered here) and that's because we find so many interesting people and common intrests. But still, we've got to have some rules to keep everything running smoothly. Please help us (and each other) out by staying civil and polite.

<P>

We should probably all just pretend that our mothers were standing over our shoulders while we type. I know that would have prevented some of my less proud moments in the past

I'm pretty much all for some type of rules/guidelines, however, it is hardly to ignore the fact that the LPF is a community and many of us who hang out here value the other members' opinion on a wide varity of issues. Let's face it, the quality of the answers one receive at this particular forum even on a non-Leica related questions, be it on digital, ol'skool SLRs etc, are way higher than if the questions is posted on any other forum. Sorry to see that opportunity to gather/share knowledge go away...

Wheeew, what a relief....I thought Harvey was getting kicked off the forum for staring trouble again. ;>)

 

Dennis

Hi Tony! I like your new guidelines. All of them. The only thing I can think of would be: if you or Josh really want to and/or need to delete a thread, then please tell us this in advance like, say, 24 h beforehand. This is sometimes done (by you, at least) but not always (I don't know who the deleter was). Some of us sometimes like to make our own archives of hot stuff... ;-)

James,

<P>

The "photo critique" issue has been covered over and over on photo.net. Which is why I gave it three days. Enough time for anyone who cared to make a comment on it. I gave the halloween costume a week because I felt like by that time everyone who wanted to see it would have seen it. I suppose I could have given the other thread a week as well, but I'm sure you would have gotten just as upset. As you ourself point out, the "photo critique" thread is allowed under #15. True, but 15 also states <i>"Off topics posts are subject to expiration depending on their long-term informational value."</I> Which is exactly what happened.

<P>

I suppose that "pimp" to some is profane or insulting to some. But so are the words "boob" or "psycho". We have to draw the line somewhere. And I'd like to think we draw it at the top of the bell curve, the words that the highest percentage of people find "vulgar". Also, I wasn't calling anyone but myself a pimp.

<P>

I don't really know what your deal is. You could have written me an e-mail explaining your problems with my actions. But instead you just got all publically cranky. You seem to have issues with me personally. And that's fine, but there's no reason to make everyone here a party to your anger about me.

<P>

Dislike me all you want. I really don't care.

What is the moderator position on R system photographs, that, by definition, would

not fit "within the 'rangefinder' style"? Granted R system users are a minority here, but

have you decided that this dimension of Leica photography doesn't belong in the

Leica Forum?

 

Tom

Dennis

 

This means Harvey gets the boot next time he goes for a 'piss up' - whatever the hell that is.

Angry? Please don't flatter yourself. I'm merely saying have some equitable treatment- think of yourself as a "user" as well. I saw what I thought was a disparity. If you cannot take this criticism without flinging some emotional accusations at me, then you're not looking at it more neutrally.

 

Anyway, I don't care, have at it.

Excellent post Tom. The main description of the Leica forum is: <P> <i>This forum is for discussing Leica cameras and any associated equipment in the persuit of great photography. You are encouraged to post any questions, or contribute any answers, about Leica photography.</i> <P> Which absolutely covers R photography. I think Tony was trying to use the word "rangefinder" as a way to describe a style of photography. A style that is hard to describe no matter what word you use. <P> Nonetheless, Leica R = good.

I put up a FS: AD (Leica Item)few days ago and it was deleted, I have notice for these people who paid to contribute always get their AD stay, I would like to become contributed member, but I don't have Paypal, Tony, can you tell me where I can send in the payment. After all the Photo Net is a great place to be.

 

Thank yoU!

Michael,

 

I'm not sure that we will be e-mailing people about thread deletion/expiration, but we'll try to (as I did in the photo crit referenced above) post a note about the threads lifespan . I.e. "this thread will expire in three days". Or five days or whatever.

 

Having made the mistake in the past, I will however, not attempt to be "clever" about stating that fact.

Scandalous!! How dare you attempt to direct this place back

toward being about Leica photography (however ill-defined that

may be) and away from being the digital vs. film/rating system's

lame/moderators are unfair/best EOS lenses/look what's on

ebay/my diaper needs changing forum! (For those who lament

the change, the general unarchived forum here on photo.net

should suit your needs quite well.)

I do not own a scanner, nor do I have the capability to place scanned photohraphs on the forum; however, the way I read Item 10, individuals who DO possess these sometimes need help and assistance in getting their photographs to the forum. I believe you should have an exemption for specific discussions of this type.I don't know a jpg from a gif, but apparently is does make a difference when trying to upload something.

George, a quick search on "uploading images" will provide a list

of threads that address such questions.

Mitchell,

<P>

I don't know why your post was deleted. But you don't need to be a subscriber to post FS threads.

<P>

But in any case the address to send payments to is:

<P>

Photo.net <br>

PO Box 545 <br>

Carlisle MA 01741<br>

U.S.A.<br>

<P>

The page that lists the payment address is <a href="http://www.photo.net/photonet-donations">here.</a>

I am in support of the intent behind the Revised Guidelines. Guidelines #5 and #6 are

particularly welcome. We must avoid anarchy if we are to maximize the value of the

LPF to all of us. After all, photo.net is a large tent. If I have a Nikon question, it's just

as easy for me to post on the Nikon forum. I use several different formats and digital.

I think everyone on LPF is smart enough to figure out which other forum to use, if

needed. I may be in the decided minority in wanting the LPF to be about things Leica. I

do not agree with an "ecumenical" approach as long as there are so many other

forums to use. At least I hope that the LPF becomes more about things Leica than it is

now. Good luck to the moderators in their efforts to bring order out of the present

chaos.

Frank, I'm confused by "smoke a fag". Are you starting a fire with damp kindling, or picking off cast members of <i>Queer Eye for the Straight Guy</i> with a rifle? Either way, I'm offended!