Rethinking which lenses to use- 1st wedding

I am doing my first wedding soon and have the Canon 18-55mm, 50mm f1.8 and the

70-200mm f2.8. I was planning to use the 18-55 on tripod for the formals of

family and wedding party but I can't get the background blur I want. I can get

the blur with 50mm but what other issues will I have with using this lens

(besides having to back 20 feet from subject)? Also, I was planning to use the

70-200mm for the B/G alone does that sound reasonable or would the 50mm be

better? Formals/wedding is to be outdoors, weather permitting. thanks so much in

advance for your advice.

The 18-55 is a 2.8 or no? I�m not as familiar with Canon lenses. The 50mm can work if you have the space to back up. Also, if the background is not blurry enough for you, then you can have them move further from it. Otherwise going with the 50mm or the zoom will do it. Now you can look into renting or borrowing a 2.8 in the zoom range as well if yours isn�t.

Michael,

 

No, the 18-55 is 3.5-5. Yes, I figure I need to have the party at least 50 feet from the background with the 50mm. Does that sound right? The background is an old white farmhouse. I would figure out the math but ack. Math. I would have to move even farther back from the subject with the zoom, right?

See that�s a little bit of a weak spot there for me. Not sure about the calculations, I�m sort of the type who gets on scene and does a few test shots to see what works. Then again I�m barely what you could call a serious amateur so take my advice only so far. If you can frame everyone in the 50mm lens then why not use it? Very nice performance on it. Unless of course you�re looking to get more scenery into the shot which I�m guessing you�re not?

An old white farmhouse. Dont do the blur thing unless the b/g have asked for it or its ugly. If its charming, they will apreciate it more if you have some good shots of it. A few candids with the blur can be good, but they chose that spot because they liked how it looked (I assume).

 

Dont overthink it too much. Just because you can blur the background doesnt mean you should.

 

I would be concerned that your kit lens isnt going to cut it for the ceremony. Its one thing for formals, but the ceremony you wont be able to look at the screen and say "hold up, lets do that again". Consider renting a 24-70 2.8 for the event.

You don't mention which body you will be using, full frame or cropped sensors will make a big difference in your FOV and corresponding distances.

OK, I've been puzzled and am still puzzled about this background blur thing with formals. I can see it on half lengths and close ups with individuals, couples (particularly the 'art' shots), and small groups, but for the full family group shots, etc., I don't get it. What is important with the latter is getting enough DOF so rows of people are sharp, and anyway, one should be framing these shots so the group takes up the majority of the space in the frame, meaning, you don't see much of the background anyway. The people in focus is important, the perspective is important (no distortion). The background blur is not that important.

 

If you can't get the background blur you want with f3.5, is that important to the shot, considering that f3.5 may not give you enough DOF for the group shots?

 

Using the 70-200mm for the shots of the couple is up to you, and dependent upon how much you can back-up, and/or how much of the environment you want to include in the images. The 50mm may or may not be 'better'. It depends on the effect you want. Perhaps the couple wants the background in focus or at least, not completely blobbed out. I know it is 'popular' these days to go selective focus all the time, but like all of these popular things, use your head--make your own decisions.

Dan, I'll be using the 70-200mm for the ceremony and only using the kit lens for the formals. The bride has asked for lots of DOF. That was the one thing she told me she definitely wanted when we had our consult.

 

Nadine, yes I want to do some selective focus, particularly with the small groups but I will take to heart your concerns with the full party/family shots with background blur. I will upload a photo of the house and see what you think about ugly/not ugly. I should point out that the rest of the site is basically very weedy and/or sunny. 3 scrappy trees stand behind the FOV on the house shot- very little shade.<div></div>

She wants lots of DOF or lots of selective focus?

 

The farmhouse looks 'charming' to me. I wouldn't call it ugly. It will be slightly OOF anyway, if you are focused on the group, even at f8 or something, particularly if they aren't right up against the building.

Sorry, lots of selective focus. By saying lots of DOF, I mean lots of blur which I know is actually backwards- my ignorance showing through.

 

Would you position them closer or farther from the house to get more of it?

Farther from the house.

Same opinion as Nadine, but to add, be careful of how far and how large an aperture you use as the house may just end up being a big white blur.

Here is an example, I really didn't want the bride and groom quite so blurry here.<div></div>

Todd, Point well made. LOL!

Solution, bracket the aperture, start low and go hi and take a series of shots.

Todd, Great idea!!! Thanks.

I agree with Nadine's first post. In group shots you want to use caution with too little DOF (lots of blur). You need to make sure everyone is in focus and if you get too preoccupied with the background blur you may end up with grandpa blur. For groups I use f/8 +- depending on the size.

 

Long story short, your 18-55 is probably fine.

 

M

Either the 50 or the kit lens would work. I would agree that f8 is a good idea for formals to make sure everyone is in focus. If you use the kit lens, you will want to shoot it around 35-55mm anyways to avoid excess barrel distortion. You have to stand back a bit. You'll be standing back much further when you use a 70-200 for BG shots. You could also use a remote since you're using a tripod....I've never done that, just a thought.

Amy - 90% of my couples shots are with the 70-200 2.8. I can be nice a far from them and they are more comfortable interacting and expressing emotion because I'm not on top of them.

 

As to Todd's photo.... Be careful not to include sky (my opinion). Your eye is always going to go to the brightest spot in an image and the sky in that shot is drawing my eye away from the subject.

 

Nadine is correct... Just make sure they are not close to the building.

 

I'm very interested in the F8 thing. I can honestly say I've never shot F8 except on a sunny beach. I always go for the shade - get backlit trees in the background and back up so I have good DOF and zoom in to fill the frame (that's why I like shooting with zooms). The leaves go soft, the light on the backlit leaves is amazing. I usually shoot groups at F4 to 5.6 and I have absolutely no problem with DOF.

 

PS - AMY - Please do not upload large images... Take a look at the guidelines please in the Wedding Forum topics.. It's the first one. http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00PeDN

 

Make the image 511 pixels or less

Type in a caption

 

We do not want to open a new window to see an image... It should be visible in the thread.<div></div>

Mary--it probably doesn't make much difference but I think Amy has a crop sensor camera, so 70-200 is 112-320mm in full frame equivalent.

 

Re the f8 thing. I am sure that for a single row of people, you could shoot at f2 if you focus carefully, and everyone's faces, at least, will be in focus, if not the whole body, and everything would look swell, with nice blurred backgrounds, etc. It's when you've got multiple rows (3 and more) that on a full frame, you need at least f5.6, f8, and sometimes, f11 if you can't pack the rows closely (also if you're trying not to use the widest angles for distortion control). Plus, everyone can use a DOF margin of error on these kinds of important shots. At least, that's been my experience. Again, on a crop sensor camera, you have 'more' DOF than with full frame--about 1 and 1/3 stops or so.

Nadine and Mary and all, Thanks so much for your advice. I trust you and will scratch my idea for shallow DOF on biggest formal groups. I'm so glad I asked!

 

Mary, This is off topic but if the weather brings rain- we have had severe thunderstorms every day for 2 weeks- which is likely all events at this wedding will take place in a tent (barring tornadoes). I read one of your old posts (2004) that pointed someone to some of your wedding shots done in a tent. But it looks like you have removed those. Do you have a portfolio of images like this somewhere else that I could browse for ideas?

Sorry Amy - don't have any... If you end up in the tent for group shots... Watch out for the tent poles in the background and bounce your flash if you can get the group to the edge of the tented area where the ceiling is lower. I also try doorways of a home (if the tent is on the property of a home or historic site) with me under an umbrella in the rain.

 

Nadine - Thanks - did not think about the crop sensor camera since I was film.

 

Also - I've shot 3-4 rows of people at F4 or F5.6. I just get back far enough.... Trust me I've done it for years and years... With my film camera - 70-200 2.8 lens. Some blown up to 11x14 - no problem. And the reason is - I'm just using slight flash fill in backlit shade or shade.

Mary--I hope you didn't think I was trying to teach you anything, which would be ludicrous, considering your years of experience. I'm sure you get great images. I was trying to explain why people still go overkill on f stops for DOF on the group formals. It's basically for that margin of error. A badly placed focal point could place a DOF range off, if the range was narrowly calculated. Plus, I did read somewhere that today's lenses are so good, that the 'old' DOF tables may not provide complete and acceptable (by today's standards) sharpness throughout the stated range (I think it was in a Hasselblad book). So I still err on the side of caution. Plus, subject distance is one of the factors that increase DOF, among several others. So one cannot actually say, just by f stop, that one is or isn't covering necessary DOF anyway. I have to say, though, that f4 would make me nervous with groups of 3 rows or more on focal lengths longer than 50mm... :^)

It would make a perfect backdrop in my opinion if you had creative control. I can see some scenrios where you could make it work, but not with the farmhouse beiing so over powering. Maybe taken from a far distance like a landscape.

 

Without some of the background thrown OOF, you could get some ugly and unexpected details. I see paint chipping, rotting boards, ugly foundation. Nothing that will flatter the bridal party.

 

I would do some test shots and show a variety of examples, just to make sure that the two of you are on the same page.

Amy:

 

I think you can do this with what you have. But if you had say $300 to spend, a 35 F2 or a Tamron 17-35 2.8-4 might help.

 

Aside from that, it looks like theres room to move the party a bit away form the house and you form the party using the 50 1.8. It's a better lens, and you can stop it down remember.

 

I woudl braket the shots using several apertures. Try shooting at F2, F4, F5.6, F8 and see which backgrounds you and the bride like best.

 

Laslty, be aware of the shadows that house may through and the direclty/angle of the sun. In the sample shot you'd have pretty hard sidelighting from the left to contend with and possibly unflattering shadows on the right side of their faces.

 

Be prepared to directl them to turn a bit, even if they dont' get it. Also make sure you have an idea of what time of day you'll be shooting there and do a test shoot a day or two before to get familiar with the lighting.