Report of Cosina Factory Tour

Stephen Gandy's report of his recent tour of the Cosina factory

outside Tokyo is posted <a

href=http://www.rangefinderforum.com>here</a>. Of particular

interest is his report that Leica prices on the M7 & MP are expected

to increase to about $3200 July 1.

No pictures, little actually said. I would have liked to have seen the facility in which my R3A was made.

Easyer to find <a href="http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5068">click</a>

"Leica prices on the M7 & MP are expected to increase to about $3200"

 

Hmm, let's see, our stock has tanked, and our sales figures have gone south .... hey, let's

raise the prices !!! Leica management just brings a smile to my face :-)

This is an ideal time for Kodak to come back into the market.

 

Kodak's 828 Bantam Special was Leica's more elegant and more compact rival, Contax and Nikon never came close. It'd be easy to tweak the Bantam Special design for 35mm.

 

Voila: an art deco 35mm Mamiya 7...or with the addition of a full-frame Canon chip, a mini transmitter and belt pack, the ultimate digicam.

 

Leica's only chance for survival as a film camera is sell the brand to more credible people (Kodak/Canon/Nikon/Mamiya/Olympus) and produce a sub-$1500 M2. They can't survive with German market intellect, design, labor, engineering, banking etc.

As elegant as Walter Dorwin Teague's design was, the Bantam Special was hardly a rival or superior to Leitz's Leica or Zeiss Ikon's Contax in the late 1930s. Being a folder w/a leaf shutter & lacking interchangeable lenses, it was more like Kodak's own Retina 35mm folders or Zeiss Ikon's Super Nettel.

 

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"Kodak's 828 Bantam Special was Leica's more elegant and more compact rival, Contax and Nikon never came close. It'd be easy to tweak the Bantam Special design for 35mm."

Gandy observes in his story that the Bessa 2/3a and Zeiss Ikon share no

components bar the shutter. Of course, we've heard the opposite here

dozens, or even hundreds, of times - so I wondered who spread that rumour?

Was it the same people who had it in for the Hexar RF?

"Most [used] items [in Tokyo camera stores] are on consignment. What happens is that the husband buys the treasure and wants to hide it from his wife, so puts it up for sale at his favorite store."

 

Now that's an interesting idea ! :o)

Paul T. wrote:

 

"...the Bessa 2/3a and Zeiss Ikon share no components bar the shutter."

 

Dissapointing to hear the Ikon will have that same fairly noisy shutter. Are there no removeable-lens rangefinders with a quiet shutter to rival Leica's?

 

Peter Wilson

>Dissapointing to hear the Ikon will have that same fairly noisy shutter.

 

But not noisier than your SLR or motorized film P&S.

 

>Are there no removeable-lens rangefinders with a quiet shutter to rival Leica's?

 

Mamiya 6 and 7, Bronica RF645.

 

Furthermore, a digital P&S can be silent, not merely "quiet", if you want it to be.

You could enter the lottery for the Nikon SP, also mentioned in Gandy's article.

Christopher, I'd venture that Bantam Special had far better optics in that one f2 Ektar than Leica or Contax offered in the thirties at that speed :-)

 

Kodak could have made fine multiple lens version if they'd targeted that market...an later did with the Retinas you mentioned.

 

Unfortunately, though 828 was photographically a much better format, the paper backing made it uneconomical by comparison to Leica's motion picture stock.

 

Cosina is stumbling after the wrong Leica concept...they should be creative, design a smaller, quieter camera with better-constructed lenses, as did Barnack, the REAL Zeiss, and Teague et al. And interchangable leaf-shuttered lenses (per Hassleblad and Mamiya) would be a lot smarter than CV's noisy garage door.

 

I'm not suggesting simple replication of the old Bantam Special, though that would make more sense than anything Leica's done in decades for its non-professional customers...especially considering the sensuality of that Kodak in comparison to der M series.

 

I'm just imagining a return to the concept of a small, quiet, elegant, optically superior camera that would where the Bantam Special and screw mount Leica left off. Leica almost did it with the CL, with Minolta's help.

>And interchangable leaf-shuttered lenses (per Hassleblad and Mamiya) would be a lot smarter than CV's noisy garage door.

 

...not to mention a lot slower, bigger and more expensive.

 

Those "garage doors" aren't Cosina's either - they are made by Copal and are found in a lot of SLRs. Funny how people never complain about their motorized SLRs.

 

>I'm just imagining a return to the concept of a small, quiet, elegant, optically superior camera

 

No need to imagine - just get a CM. It has the right brand, the right place of manufacture, and therefore the right price AND great construction - unlike the stuff that Zeiss and its co-sinner churns out. I guess Paul agrees with me too. ;)

 

That hot shoe on the Zeiss Ikon also looks suspiciously familiar. The camera must be an overpriced, badly-made Bessa!

Leaf shutters wouldn't necessarily be bigger. Any extra cost would be insignificant because we're dreaming about something better than Cosina. Priced at $1500 for the body, a few hundred extra dollars per shutter (wouldn't be that much) wouldn't be a negative. Cosina should copy the CM's shutter, not my garage door.

 

The CM looks bland...not as clean and distinctive as my old Canon digicam and not sexy like Bantam Specials or Barnacks.

 

Too bad it's not made in Japan (will be, right?) and too bad it's not digital (Nikon or Canon could do full frame chip if they wanted) and too bad it doesn't have a bright frame finder..the CM's is no better than a thirties Bantam Special.

More about shutter noise (I'm interested in maximizing discretion.):

 

With a lot of SLRs, it's mirror clunk that's the loudest, isn't it?

My old Pentax MX makes the KALUNK! to end all clunks. But my 90's era ZX5-n is really quiet in comparison; just a modest motor whirr to put up with. I'd love to A/B it to some rangefinders.

 

I've seen the Bessa's Copal shutter's noise compared to an SLR's; but which SLR? There's much variety.

 

Peter Wilson

I suspect that my old Yashica FR has the loudest SLR shutter I have ever heard...although the sound of an Argus C3 has frightened the cat.

>Leaf shutters wouldn't necessarily be bigger. Any extra cost would be insignificant because we're dreaming about something better than Cosina.

 

Have you wondered why no one ever realized this dream of yours?

I also had a Yashica FR. Nice camera. The salt air finally fried the electronics. So, is the Cosina factory as clean as the Leica factory? ;*)

I know your tongue is probably @ least partially in cheek, but I can't agree @ least w/regard to 1930's Zeiss glass for the Contax RFs, as I've had experience shooting my Bantam Special (w/coated 45/2 Ektar), 1930's Sonnars & Tessars w/my Contax RFs, as well as the 47/2 Ektar in LTM (for the Kardon, but same optically as the version for the Bantam Special), & the Sonnars are generally superior to the Ektar.

 

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"Christopher, I'd venture that Bantam Special had far better optics in that one f2 Ektar than Leica or Contax offered in the thirties at that speed :-)"

"would be a lot smarter than CV's noisy garage door."

 

In all my years in photography I have never heard anyone complain about noisy shutters as much as here in this forum. If noise is so much of an issue for you to make as dramatic claims as you do here then you should be using digitals or leaf shutter cameras. Bessas are not noisy by any stretch of the imagination and for all we know the insulation of he Ikon may be greater so you wont know till you have it in your hands. How about a faster shutter and synch speed from those old cloth shutters? Nope sorry. Leicas arent even that quite in the scheme of things really, I think its exacgerated like a number of other features of Leicas to substanciate ownership. I like my Leicas but if sound was my primary issue I wouldnt be owning them either.

Solution to shutter noise problem =

 

Buy a Pentacon 6/Praktisix then all you other shutters will suddenly sound a lot quieter by comparison.

Andy, my old Pentax 6X7 knocked birds from the air when it went off! Great camera though, gave me fabulous negs and lots of exercise.

I love the loudest-ever-shutter-sound reports! "Why, the sound of my ol' [xxx] camera echoed the length of the Alps and alerted the enemy to our position; so we got bombed to smithereens. That camera was the only thing still working after the battle."

 

 

pw

The shutter on my old Contax was so loud I experienced time travel when it went off.

Time travel? Next Tuesday on CBC the new Dr. Who debuts. I'll be watching!