Removing original black paint on old camera's?

<p>Hi,<br>

I'm looking for some advice about removing the original black paint from some old SLR's from the 70's and 80's (Canon, Praktica, Olympus etc). Does anyone have any experience of successfully achieving this? (please don't respond telling me not to do it, it's not what I'm asking!)<br>

Here's what I've tried so far:<br>

Heat gun and soft wire brush - extremely slow and potentially damaging to the brass underneath.<br>

Nitro-mors - no effect<br>

Paint Panther (from tool-station) - no effect<br>

Oven cleaner - no effect<br>

Brake Fluid - no effect<br>

Fairy Power Spray - no effect (the modellers recommended this one)<br>

Cellulose thinnners - no effect<br>

I'd rather avoid using sandpaper as this will damage the brass underneath and give an uneven surface, which now leaves me out of ideas. Are there any chemical strippers out there which would manage this. I'm not entirely sure what the original coating are, some kind of baked enamel I'm guessing, but whatever they are they seem extremely resilient.<br>

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.<br>

Dave</p>

<p>On many cameras the black paint appears only on the top and bottom covers. Onw way of going about this is to remove these covers and to put them into a sandblasting box. Your final result would be smooth and even and the paint should come off readily. These boxes are used for, among other things, cleaning and recionditioning car parts. When the Statue of Liberty was being restored I think baking soda was used instead of sand so the copper wouldn't be damaged. I have heard of things like walnut shell pieces also being used in restoration work. There are paint strippers which are made for automotive use and one of them should work. You would still want to remove the top and bottom covers. Plain brass, unless it is very thick, is not really a suitable material for the outside of a camera. A chrome coating serves to protect the brass. In this respect, paint is not as good in protecting the brass. Some people like to remove the old paint because they want the new paint job to look good. Others want to remove the old paint because thwy want to plate some kind of metal to the covers. I suppose you could even use autimotive clear coat if you really like the brass look. </p>

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<p>I'm not entirely sure what the original coating are, some kind of baked enamel I'm guessing, but whatever they are they seem extremely resilient.<br>

</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You are correct. I'm not aware of any solvent which will dissolve this; it would have to be removed by mechanical means. Soda blasting comes to mind.</p>

<p>Thanks for the feedback,<br>

Jeff, my reason for stripping the paint is to subsequently re-paint, so my goal is as good a finish as I can get. I think the best way to do this would be to completely remove the original paint. As you rightly mention, the main focus is the top and bottom plates, which I've completely removed from the camera's and subsequently stripped of all buttons/dials and plastic parts. The ideal scenario would be a dip'n'strip chemical which I could dunk the parts into and pull them back out as nice shiny brass. I do realise that these would probably be some real nasty, toxic, carcinogenic type chemicals but I am geared up to deal with that. What I'm unsure about is which chemical I need and where I can source it? <br>

I'd never heard of soda blasting before but after a bit of reading it does sound like a good solution. Unfortunately it looks like a few hundred pounds investment to get myself kitted out (which wouldn't be worthwhile for me) but I've made enquiries with some pro's to see what the costs would be. I'll also look into hiring it, but I might be struggling up here in the Scottish highlands!</p>

 

<p>Many enamels, especially baked ones, won't respond to a dip-n-dunk chemical solution. Sandblasting (with the proper abraisive) is the way to go. Model railroaders often sandblast old sheet brass cars in preparation for new finishes...so if you have a local model railroad club nearby, you might check it out if they would do the job for you on the cheap.</p>

<p>Baked enamel can be 'somewhat softened' (in my experience) by an 'aircraft stripper' which usually can be gotten at a good auto parts store. It may take many hours to work. You may still need to wire wheel it too.</p>

<p>It is a very tough coating, hence its use!</p>

<p>Jim M.</p>

<p>One other thought occurred to me...if there is a gun club nearby, or a gun dealer, or an active shooter who does his own reloading of cartridges....many have a vibrating polisher, which is filled with lightly abrasive material (usually highly ground walnut shells, ground corn cobs, sand, etc) - holds around 1-2 gallons of abrasive and vibrates whatever you want to polish for however long you have it turned on. They are used mostly for polishing used brass or nickel plated rifle or pistol cartridges prior to sizing and reloading for target practice, but could easily hold your camera parts or other small items for polishing. If you're unfamiliar with what I'm talking about, I'll try to attach a picture of a small one I have from my former shooting days. You can probably find them cheaply on the big auction site as well.</p><div></div>

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<p>please don't respond telling me not to do it</p>

</blockquote>

<p>OK, I won't, but remember all those people on Antiques Roadshow who took off the 'ugly old finish' on their 17th c. credenza?</p>

<p><br /> The ex-Soviets are superb at removing chrome in preparation for conversion into "gold" Leicas. Perhaps you should see if you can contact one of them to see if their methods would work for black finishes as well.</p>

<p>I have heard that some camera companies saved the better castings for chrome plating and used the less perfect ones for painting. The tumbler reminds me of something else. Years ago my younger brother used a rock tumbler to polish rocks. The thing ran continuously for weeks in the bedroom closet. It was put in a box and then blankets were piled on and over it to muffle the sound. There are reasonably priced rock tumblers available. If you are planning to repaint these parts then they don't have to be perfect. They will just need to be reasonably even. Even if you wear away part of the brass you will presumably be priming the surfaces before painting and that will even things out. Some kind of air gun paint sprayer should get you an even and thin enought coat if you do it in sections. What you will probably find is that the coat of paint you put down will not look exactly like the original. This doesn't mean it can't look good. It just won't be exactly the same. </p>

<p>Well guys, it's been a successful day since my first post this morning. I started researching soda blasting and came across this link. I must admit I was dubious, but read on....<br>

http://www.aircooledtech.com/tools-on-the-cheap/soda_blaster/<br>

So, I gave it a go....<br>

First of all here's my bodged blast gun which I hooked up to my not so awesome compressor in the garage:<br>

<img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/17489187-md.jpg" alt="" width="680" height="510" /><br>

I don't have a tank on the compressor so I could only get short blasts of high pressure air, then wait for the pump to recharge the lines - not so awesome. But......having "borrowed" a small tub of baking soda from the kitchen, I was impressed with what it managed to do:</p>

<p><img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/17489186-md.jpg" alt="" width="680" height="510" /><br>

This was as far as I got before the soda ran out. Admittedly it's only a start, but a good start nonetheless. Next step is to order a big bag of baking soda (yet to source) and cobble together a wee blast cabinet so that I contain the mess and hopefully re-use the medium a few times. I'll report back in a few days with the results.<br>

The tumbler idea might be good also, if the soda doesn't work it'll be my next avenue. Sadly (or gladly perhaps!) there's no such thing as a gun club here in the uk, our government don't trust us with them, but I'm sure there are some rock polishers out there who might have the necessary vibratory contraptions.</p>

<p>Seems you already got a working method. But if you still want to try the solvent route, I would suggest soaking in acetone. Very few coatings, epoxies come to mind, can resist a day soaking in acetone. The trick is finding a container to soak it in, as it dissolves plastics. So you would need something inorganic and pretty much air tight so it doesn't just evaporate away on you. A large glass jar or an empty paint can would do.</p>

<p>I've used these simple "blasters" and my first thought was: "<strong>use extreme caution!"</strong><br>

Last time I used one (even with eye protection), I received some blow-back into my eyes that was extremely irritating.<br>

It took several days for the debris to leave my eye tissue. </p>

<p>Finally, virtually every camera offered in "Black" or "Chrome", yields <strong>higher value</strong> with the <strong>worn</strong> black choice.<br>

In fact, some collectors love the "worn" patina look so much, they'll pay sky high prices for an original painted Leica M3 and M2; the more wear the better.<br>

After-all, i<em>t's <strong>only original once</strong>.</em></p>

<p>I have to say I'm dubious about acetone, given the range of chemicals I've already attacked it with. But....I'm happy to be proven wrong. I'll pick some up in the morning and give it a try...watch this space.</p>

<p>Gus, thanks for the word of caution. I've already started work on a blast cabinet to contain the mess. After years working in the offshore industry I have a healthy respect for safety and tend to err on the side of overcautiousness.<br /> I totally understand your point on the value of original paintwork, and I agree. The thing is, the camera's I'm abusing are not high value collectables and as such their value is not my focus. I'm really just mucking around with a few ideas for now. So don't worry, no Leica's are under threat from my antics.</p>

<p>Just another thing to keep in mind with the acetone, use hardware store stuff. It's pretty close to pure. Don't use the kind that they sell for removing nail polish, they add glycerin so that it's easier on skin. Problem is, it isn't nearly as aggressive with the additives.</p>

<p>Just a thought. You might be able to pick up some baking soda at a bulk food place. It would be somewhat cheaper than buying it retail by the box. Good luck.</p>

<p>Another thought on soda blasting. Maybe you can see if you can get a cheap five or ten gallon portable tank. At least then when you fill it up it will give you a minute or two before needing another charge. Otherwise, you might want to consider a higher output compressor with attached tank. Just how many cameras do you want to refinish? I once converted an old five gallon bucket into a sand blasting cabinet. I cut a hole into the side of the bucket, riveted a coffee can to the side, and taped a sandblasting glove over the coffee can (with the bottom cut out of course). Next was a small hole next to the coffee can with a big rubber grommet to push the sandblasting nozzle against. I also cut a hole in the lid and attached a small sheet of plexiglas so I could get an idea of what I was doing. Not really professional, but in a pinch, well...</p>

<p>I'd second on the acetone, it removes lacquers and enamels.</p>

<p>I have always used laquer thinner and denatured alcohol, equal parts, and 0000 steel wool. It works on antique furniture, dissolves the finish slightly and the 0000 steel wool does the rest. Works for me. Hope it works for you.</p>

<p>Any blasting with a grit material will damage the metal surface. Alkalie stripping with an electrical charge will remove anything not original to the metal part and leave you with every bit of the good metal. Corrosion and rust will fall off the good metal. Which is why it is used in antique car restorations and other items that need non-destructive material removal. If you are trying to do a quality restoration on a vintage camera this is the process you should be using.</p>

<p>Also, do not use amonia cleaners on brass. It will attack to the copper in the metal and can lead to metal cracking.</p>

<p>CHEERS...Mathew</p>

<p>As far as I understand the whole idea of using soda for the blasting is that it won't damage the substrate. That's the theory anyway, I'll put it to the test in a couple of days. </p>

<p>Mathew, can you tell me more about the method for alkali stripping. Is it the same setup as for chrome de-plating? I've got some caustic soda here, would that be suitable? And for an electrical charge I'm thinking a car battery would work? The chrome removal setup has the camera part as the anode, and something steel as the cathode, would this work?</p>

<p>Ordered some bulk soda off the internet last night, should be here in a couple of days. The blast cabinet is taking shape, it's based around a plastic crate, with the addition of arm holes, access hatch, and internal lighting. Sounds much like the one Rob was describing above. And yes, I was thinking about picking up an air reservoir for the compressor. </p>

<p>Great tip about the acetone, I'll make sure it's the pure type and not the nice and gentle finger paint type.</p>

<p>I've done this a few times and if the brass piece has no plastic inclusions moulded onto it, acetone will do a pretty good job of softening coatings, and will remove most paints eventually. Of course if it has an "engineering plastic" moulded onto it, then that won't work...</p>

<p>A better cleaning method - which I always apply after any solvent treatment, is to use a commercial glass-bead blaster. I have a friend locally who reconditions Weber and other carburettors and also manufactures his own design of bead-blast cabinet. His cabinet has a high-pressure hot water feed to carry the beads away from the work and keep the glass-bead nozzle clean, as well as a compressed air feed to drive the beads. It has a hardened glass cover that is hermetically sealed to keep the dust down and you handle the job inside the cabinet with thick industrial gloves to avoid taking your skin off. You will also need to wear hearing protecters.</p>

<p>He comes from a military aviation background and glass-bead blasting is commonplace in that industry as it is completely non-injurious to the dimensionality of the part being cleaned. If the part has corrosion the glass beads will remove the corrosion, but leave the casting/plate/piston/shaft/etc. completely clean.</p>

<p>After-treatment is just a wash in warm water to remove split bead residue and an air-blast.</p>

<p>Try a local commercial aviation repair facility. They are normally quite good about doing small 'homers', perhaps for a few beers!</p>

<p>* One important point is that my friend gets upset if there is ANY rust or too much paint left on the part to be bead blasted as he used it to put a 'tooth' on for electroplating and rust and paint screw up his chemistry. *<br /> <br /> I have cleaned the paint off things like the silver rewind and advance knobs from 1980's Nikon's to expose the black plastic the part is made from. Curiously Nikon also flashed a copper layer over the black plastic before the silver paint. It's difficult to remove as it adheres to the base plastic really well!</p>

<p>p.s. I for one, sure wouldn't be mucking around with some home-made blasting contraption without an effective enclosure! Do a google search on "silicosis" to get an idea of the sorts of permanent lung damage that can, and does occur. There is an old 19th century poem about "..Woe be the grinders of Sheffield..." about the foreshortened lives and devastation such cheap methods can cause. Many builders die a miserable death in thier 40's and 50's from cutting rock and cement with inadequate lung protection, not to mention the eye damage issue Gus has already highlighted...</p>

You can use Permatex spray-on gasket remover. Start by wiping the parts with lacquer thineer to remove grease, excess

dirt, and fingerprint oil. Spray the gasket remover until the part is covered, and wait for about 10 minutes, the paint should

lift away fully from the metal. Scrape off the paint with a plastic scraper, and clean the parts with wet steel wool while

rinsng in clean water. Wear gloves and glases, this stuff is nasty.

<p>Both aircraft stripper and Permatex gasket remover are principally mixtures of 60-85% methylene chloride and 10-15% methyl alcohol. Both are great paint strippers.</p>

<p>Also for that matter, the brand "Zep" paint remover is essentially the same mixture.</p>

<p>Many product lines have the same chemical basis. Read the labels.</p>

<p>Many jurisdictions are limiting the sale of methylene chloride (aka., dichloromethane).</p>

<p>You can use your caustic soda to soften the black paint before you soda blast. Black paint is softer than chrome. Caustic soda and muriatic acid have the same effect to chrome on cams, it will soften, remove, but not all.. Chrome cams would have a nickel plate layer and a copper layer. If ever it is to work, it's dramatic effect could be seen in 10-20 minutes. This are nasty stuff so protect yourself, with gloves, goggles, use outdoors, avoid touching, inhaling and use plastic container.</p>

<p><br /> Reverse electroplating is the easiest way to go as it does not damage the brass from what I have read but I have not tried it, maybe visit an electroplating shop. I saw a webpage on how it was done on a Zorki, with the correct tools, it looks so very easy?</p>

<p><br /> still a long way to go...............gudluck on yours<br /> <img src="http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a574/king3sparrow/Picture-238_zps4aca01cb.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>Alkali stripping is done at the commercial level and you should be able to find a facility in most areas that can handle the parts. Check the yellow pages for metal stripping shops that do this process. Once I knew oif this process I never looked to blasting metal with any form of grit.</p>

<p>CHEERS...Mathew</p>