Recommend small(ish) 120 film camera?

In the spirit of the earlier thread about small 35mm cameras. I have several

old cameras that use 120 film, mostly simple box-types but also a Yashica 635.

What I'd like is something more compact than a TLR but with goodish features,

not a folder, perhaps a rangefinder, something sharp and portable but which

won't break the bank. I really like the look of the Kodak Medalist, for

instance, but (a) I can't find one I can afford and (b) would rather not have

to rewind the film onto 620 spools. Any recommendations?

 

(I just know I'm going to regret this, because - as with the 35mm thread - I'll

end up wanting every single camera that gets mentioned.)

Welta Weltax with the Tessar. Zone focusing, but as small as a 6x6 folder can get. Alternatively a 645 Ikonat or Nettar. Folder cameras with a coupled rangefinder are pretty big in comparison. A vintage SLR like the Pilot Super might also interest you.

I was going to say a Fuji 645 rangefinder, but if the current batch of Medalists on eBay are too expensive, the Fujis are probably too.

How about the baby Rolleiflex? Technically 127 is considred medium format, and it's quite small. I believe Yashica made a 127 TLR too.

The Kodak Medalist is a really nice camera, but you're right, they command what I'd consider premium prices. On the bright side, they are easily modified to accept 120 film. I've seen the conversion, and a competent camera tech should be able to do it without too much bother. A baby Rollie is a very nice camera, but let's face it; 127 film is hard to source outside of a few specialty suppliers. Not a real good choice if you want the camera for a user instead of a shelf queen. Maybe a Yashicamat TLR will do? They're not too big as TLR cameras go, use 120 film, not terribly expensive, and make 6x6 cm. images. I'm not an expert on vintage medium format cameras, and I'm sure that there are a bunch of other folks here who can make better suggestions.

The folding Moscva's volume is less than a TLR when its in folded up

A Flexaret V, VI or VII that had a CLA would be a great choice too.

Yeah, the Yashica 124 is a great camera if you don't find something else that suits you.

You may have considered and have reasons for discounting folders, but there are good reasons for reconsidering them. I have several, two in particular of which I love using: a Zeiss Ikonta A, 645 format, and an Agfa Isolette, 6x6 format. The lenses, Novar and Solinar, are surprisingly adept performers, and the camera fold up into pocket size. I use them with an accessory rangefinder, and get very good results indeed, and they cost me very little. I'm much more likely to grab one of them when going out than my Yashica 12, which is itself a gem.

The argoflex?

You will find that 99% of medium format cameras which are not folders are very bulky. This is because wide-angle fixed-lens medium format cameras are excessively rare, if they exsist at all. Compact 35mm cameras often rely on wide-angle optics to compress the overall size of the camera... or run half-frame format which require smaller lenses as well. Instead most medium format cameras are sized around the "normal" focal length lens for the format. For 6x6 a normal lens is 80mm, for 6x4.5 its 75mm, for 6x9 its 105mm. This being said, you can see that the smallest thickness for a medium format camera should be in the neighborhood of 80+mm. The entire reason folding cameras are so popular is that they fold down to be around 30-40mm. and slide easily into your pocket at that size.

 

There seem to have been two catagories of medium-format rangefinders over the years... el-cheapo cameras like the Holga and the Certo, and expensive Press cameras like the Mamiya Press. In recent times the press camera format has given way to the Leica-style rangefinder format as seen on the Mamiya, Fugi and Bronica rangefinders. That being said, the Medalist appears to have been a camera in a category all of its own, a decent quality medium format rangefinder that was not a Press camera.

 

The most bang for your buck is going to be in a folder. For less than you spend on a Holga you could get yourself a Zeiss Nettar with great optics that folds up and slips in your pocket. For a rangefinder, you'll have to go with the Ikonta models. A few models had light-meters too I beleive. Be aware that features = money.

Iskra 1 or 2 folding camera.

Agfa Isolette/Ansco Speedex

I know it's a folder, but...

 

I had a Moskva 5 which was really an amazing performer. The 6x9 transparencies it produced were awesome. I used it all over Rome during my thanksgiving vacation, it easily fit into my coat pocket or camera bag. The only problem I've found with the Russian folders is although they cost $40-70 dollars, they usually need over $100 worth of work to make them dependable shooters. Still, to have a pocketable, high quality medium format camera for >200 is pretty good in my opinion.

Thanks very much for all the recommendations, everyone. Lots of cameras to mull over.

 

I'd like to withdraw the "no folders" bit. I thought about it, and realised I should have qualified that. I was thinking of small, easily managed cameras and the sort of folder I had in mind to avoid was the larger, old-style type with focus achieved by shifting the whole bellows back and forth. Compact folder styles, like the Super Ikonta B, would be just fine (except I'm looking for something a little bit cheaper than the Ikonta B).

Incidentally, what does anyone think of Dacora cameras? They look right, but the relative cost tells me they may not be up to much (plus they rely on guesstimate focusing which I tend to be bad at).

The Isolette III has an uncoupled RF. Some people have reported bad experiences with old Agfa bellows, but mine are good. It's my smallest 120 camera. It has a f/4.5 Apotar (a coated triplet; not bad at all), but you might find one with the Solinar (it will cost more). It's the business, if you like square.

 

Of course, you could always get a separate RF; it's not much to carry.

The Zeiss Nettar s a good choice. The folding mechanism is very sturdy and it snaps into place very convincingly with good parralelism.

The Novar lens looks poverty class but is an amazingly good performer when stopped down a little. Agfa's Isolettes are also a good choice, just check their bellows carefully.

Tony

What about a single-lens reflex 120 camera? If it were easy to find in a usable condition, I'd suggest a Pilot Super, but there are Kowa models (Six and Super 66), A Fujita 66, or even a Kiev 80. They are all pretty much an adventure to use. ;)

There is no such thing as a 'small' 120 camera. About the smallest I have seen and used is the Weltax which can shoot 6x6 and 6x4.5. However, it's a folder which you said you don't want. Why not go for a Pentax 6x7. It's hardly compact, however. Most 120 cameras are better suited for use on a tripod rather than hand-held. You should really do your own research rather than expecting others to do it for you. It's how you learn things.

Thanks again everyone. Very helpful advice, in the main.

 

"You should really do your own research rather than expecting others to do it for you."

 

I don't expect anyone to do any research of any kind, I expect them to do what they're doing, which is drop a couple of lines here with their existing camera experience, but only if they feel like posting.

Part of the process of doing research is asking for the opinions and experiences of others in a forum of experienced photographers, like this. It's what it's for. I know I've learned heaps here, and I've been taking photographs for over forty years.

 

I second, too, the suggestion of a Zeiss Nettar. That's another I have, and it's indeed sturdy and reassuringly well made. The Novar, especially stopped down a little, is a most admirable and capable performer, and I know of some who prefer it to the Tessar at smaller apertures. Mine has the f/4.5 Novar in the inexpensive Vario shutter, with speeds 25, 75 & 200, a slightly odd progression perhaps, but I use it with my Weston V and just read off directly from that. In terms of size, the Nettar and Isolette are pretty much the same, the Isolette only a few millimetres longer. My Isolette (one of them) is a Jurgen Kreckel refurbished model in red bellows with Solinar lens (an excellent Tessar-type design), and it really is the business. Photography with either of these is just a joy. Another folder mentioned is the Ikonta A (521). My Ikonta also has the Novar lens in a Prontor-SV shutter, speeded 1-300. Opened out, it's solid, rigid, perfectly parallel, and allows landscape or portrait orientations without wastage. It's highly pocketable, yet is capable of big-camera results.

Based on the 120mm folder cameras I personall own and use:

 

1) The Super Ikonta B/BX is of an incredible building quality and an excellent performer, but still relatively bulky. You will need very large pockets to regard it as "pocketable";

 

2) The later Super Ikonta III maintains very much the same quality and performance, but it is significantly more compact and truly pocketable;

 

3) But if you really want maximum compactness and good quality with a 120 camera, and are not fixed on the square format, by far the best choice is a Super Ikonta 531 series (4.5x6mm). This is truly a jewel, yet the OPEN camera will easily rest on the palm of your hand. Closed, you will have to dig deep in your pockets to find it.

I have to 2nd & 3rd vote for the Ansco "Speedex" cameras. These fold into a pocketable package, but have amazingly sharp German glass! Of course they are scale focusing (no rangefinder), and have other limitations(no paralax correction etc).But they are capable of producing gorgeous negatives or chromes. And the best news is these sell for real small money. I paid $8 for my "Speedex R".

Nobody presented the smallest 6x6 camera, the nice and tiny Voigtl䮤er Perkeo.

 

All the models from the 50s are with a "checkwindow" showing if the camera is ready to expose or if the film has to be winded. The Perkeo II is really interesting with automatic winder with double-exposure prevention (but possible if needed) and . The red windows is just used as frame counter. That version is fitted with a decent Color Skopar 3,5/80 lens (far better than the standart Vaskar). And no problem to find 32mm clip-on lenshood (with gorgeous leather case), filters and/or Focar close-up lenses on the second hand market.<div></div>