Rebel STi Kit or not

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by jason_rickey, Jan 11, 2008.

  1. I'm really new to photography. I took a class in high school and am very interested in it but with little experience. I am going to purchase a rebel XTi and have been looking at the "kits" from Coscto, Amazon and others. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the kit offered by Andromina due to the recommendations from this site. Then I started thinking about buying the components seperately compared to together. The kit is this; KIT INCLUDES 3 PRODUCTS: Canon Digital Rebel XTi 10.1MP Digital SLR Camera (Black) + Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 Lens [Outfit] PLUS + Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III Lens ALL BRAND NEW Items with all Manufacturer-supplied Accessories + Full Canon USA Warranties. I plan on taking pictures of family stuff. Kids at play, sports and some senery stuff. My question is should I buy the kit with the kit lens or buy the body and EF 18- 55 lens now and save up for the zoom lens with the IS? I'm not completely sure of what the offered zoom lens is being offered above but it looks to me that neither of them are IS (what does EF-S mean?). Thanks for your input. By the way I'm trying to stay under $850 for my first purchase.
     
  2. In general, I recommend that latter approach - get the XTi with the kit lens now and hold off on additional lenses until you've shot a bit with the kit lens. After doing that you'll have a much better idea of what your eventual lens preferences might be. You'll still be able to get the same or other lenses at great prices if you look around a bit. One alternative to think about might be to get the XTi body only and separately purchase the newer version of the 18-55mm kit lens which has image stabilization (IS) and is reportedly quite a good performer optically, especially considering the list price of less than $200. While you could invest in other more expensive options, until you are pretty sure what those might be - and that takes a bit of shooting to figure out - it may well be better to stick with the one lens. The EFS lenses are designed for use exclusively on Canon's crop sensor DSLR bodies, including the XT, XTi, 20D, 30D, and 40D. The lenses are designed a bit differently - they extend further into the body of the camera and generally throw a smaller image circle onto the smaller 1.6x cropped sensor. These lenses will work only on the crop sensor bodies; they will not work on full frame bodies like the 1 series or the 5D. There are some excellent lenses among the EFS series, in particular the 10-22 ultra wide and the 17-55 f/2.8 IS. At some point, it is even possible that you'll decide to add one or more of these to your kit. Another note: questions like yours almost inevitably get one or more replies that say "go and by the Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens," either as the only lens or as an adjunct. Unless you are a bit unusual, I'm going to recommend - strongly - that you also resist that advice. I will concede that the 50mm f/1.8 is a fine piece of glass and that it sells at an amazingly low price. However, it is generally the wrong lens for someone starting out with a new crop sensor DSLR kit. I won't go into the reason for saying this right now, but I'd be happy to explain if you want me to. (It could be a good choice later on if, for example, you need a short telephoto portrait lens.) Enjoy! Dan
     
  3. [[By the way I'm trying to stay under $850 for my first purchase]] The XTi with the 18-55 and 75-300 lenses will allow you to experience a TON of what photography can offer you. You will have plenty of time to wish for more hardware later. Image Stabilization will not freeze the motion of your kids playing.
     
  4. Bob wrote:
    "The XTi with the 18-55 and 75-300 lenses will allow you to experience a TON of what photography can offer you. You will have plenty of time to wish for more hardware later."
    Thanks for saying what I was trying to say - a whole lot more efficiently! :) Regarding IS, you are correct. It will help with subjects less active than playing kids though, and the main advantage that the IS version of this lens may be more that its image quality is improved. Dan
     
  5. Get the body and the new EF-S 18-55 IS. This one seems to have better reviews compared to the earlier EF-S 18-55 (without IS and mostly sold as kit lens).

    EF-S are Canon digital only lens which will work only on the cropped sensor bodies (XT, XTi, 20/30/40D, 1D Mk III etc) and not on old film SLRs.

    BTW, EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III is a ok type lens, fine to start with but most of the time you will need to stop in down to f/8 to get decent pictures. I hope you know that on XTi it would have a FOV of about 120-480. Since The budget is a concern you might give it a second though if you really need this one or not ... as you start shooting you will have a feel for what you need.

    Good Luck
     
  6. awsome input. thanks for the quick responses. I'm thinking of the IS for the wife aspect. She is a point and shoot person and I was thinking the IS would help with her a little when taking shot of the kids running around. I'm a little concerned with the slow speed of the zoom but you get what you pay for. thanks and keep it coming if theres more, which I'm sure there is.
     
  7. Go for it! If you're concerned about lack of IS and camera shake, set the camera to 400 iso. This will not only help alleviate camera shake, it'll also help freeze moving kiddies. Unlike most point-and-shoots which get very grainy and flat at 400 iso, the XTi will put out low noise and good colors even at 400 iso. You can do this manually or flip the camera to the sports setting. The 75-300 has a reputation of poor image quality at 300 mm. Maybe try to stick to the 75-200 mm range. This is not a great lens, and I doubt you'll use it much. Might be an ok purchase if it doesn't add much to the overall cost of the kit. The 18-55 is an ok lens. For many folks, that's all they'll ever use. If you do end up outgrowing it, you'll have gotten your money's worth. It's a good purchase. However if you can get the new 18-55 IS within your budget you'll be better off. Personally I'd choose the 18-55 IS over the 18-55 non-IS plus 70-300 combo.
     
  8. [[The 75-300 has a reputation of poor image quality at 300 mm. Maybe try to stick to the 75-200 mm range. This is not a great lens, and I doubt you'll use it much. Might be an ok purchase if it doesn't add much to the overall cost of the kit.]] In comparison to, say the 70-200 f/4 L, this lens has lower optical quality. But in comparison to having no lens at all for that focal length, it is invaluable. Jason, and his wife, will be able to use this lens quite a bit. [[I was thinking the IS would help with her a little when taking shot of the kids running around]] IS only helps stabilize the photographer, not the subjects. If you're going to be shooting your kids indoors in low light you will indeed need to look at lenses with much larger apertures, but at a very significant increase in cost. However, if the light is reasonable, I would recommend (as Arie has done) to simply increase your ISO 400, 800, or 1600 and see if the shutter speeds you get allow you to freeze the motion of your subjects.
     
  9. I would make a recommendation to consider an external flash. In my personal experience this has made a world of difference in the quality of my pictures. Especially if you want to take a lot of pictures of indoor family events, i.e holidays, birthdays, an external flash will set your pictures apart from the standard point and shooter's stereotypical harsh flash pictures. I have the 430EX and it is really worth it. If money is a huge concern, you could consider the 420ex.
     
  10. The IS will not overcome the slow lens. With that being said, I love it. I just got a 40D with 28-135 IS kit lens and I am already looking for faster glass. Indoors with less than ideal lighting, you could have trouble. Unless you use the flash that is. I dont like artificial light myself. Be sure to consider all the drawbacks of the kit lens before you take the plunge. You may very well be happier with a faster lens. Perhaps in a few months add a 70-300 IS for the sports and stuff. It is about $500 and is a lot of bang for the buck. Again, it would be best on brighter days. Give some serious thought to the above mentioned responses you have gotten. Particularly about many lenses being sharper at f/8 or so and that means slower shutter speeds to let enough light in, and/or increasing the ISO, which increases noise, ahhhh! It is all related and I wish I would have gave it more thought before I got my 40D kit. That lens will be in the closet soon. Not that you can not get some excellent pictures with it. Just not so easy to do under low light situations. That is my main gripe. But the IS is great. I would not buy a 70-300 lens without it. The difference could be you sitting on a bleacher holding a camera with IS, or standing beside a tripod with a non IS lens. Bright daylight and a 70-300 IS would make for some great kids playing outdoors/sports photos. I am new to the DSLRs myself so take what I say lightly. Just passing on the bumps in the road I have came across in the last few weeks. It really comes down to what you want to get out of your photography and your willingness to deal with less than perfect images. That applies to us all of course. I can say with certainty to get a book and/or dvd. They make model specific books/dvds for your camera that offer great insights into getting the best results with it. If you are need it that is. I did. Actually, I bought four. The best by far was by David Busch. Starts with the most basic stuff and goes into great detail on all aspects of using the camera. He makes one for the model you are interested in. Here is a link in case you want to take a look. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/528597-REG/Thomson_Delmar_Learning_978_1_59863_456_3_Book_Canon_EOS_Digital.html
     
  11. i HATE the 75-300 - it's not just the fact that it is non is. it is also lacking great glass and build quality. The 70-300 IS is better glass even without the IS. The 18-55 IS IS sharper than the old version and also has IS thrown in for good measure... 520 @ B/H for the body plus 175 for the lens plus 75 (before 20 mail in rebate) for 4gb sandisk extreme 3 and a hoya multi coated uv for 20 ish puts him below his mark and gives him good options while he saves for some better glass...
     
  12. I found this lens on Amazon. EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS SLR Lens. Its a IS but does not have USM. I take it its still AF but no the best motor (usm) to do the job?
     
  13. Jason: that's correct.
     
  14. Donald A says "I would make a recommendation to consider an external flash. In my personal experience this has made a world of difference in the quality of my pictures. Especially if you want to take a lot of pictures of indoor family events, i.e holidays, birthdays, an external flash will set your pictures apart from the standard point and shooter's stereotypical harsh flash pictures. I have the 430EX and it is really worth it. If money is a huge concern, you could consider the 420ex."

    I agree with donald. I bought the XTI with the kit lens just before christmas. After my first indoor event I purchased the 430EX.
     
  15. Read: http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/canon_1855_3556is/index.htm Specially the Verdict. DO NOT BUY THE NON IS 18-55
     
  16. I'd _wait_ to get the external flash. If it turns out you need one, you may have purchased the wrong one if you do it now. You'll figure it out after you shoot with the builtin flash a bit. Dan
     
  17. 18-55 IS + 50/1.8 is a good and cheap start. Later consider adding the 70-300 IS (not 75-300 IS) and 430EX. Happy shooting, Yakim.
     
  18. I decided on the basic kit model. Body and 18-55 usm with out IS. $600.60 delivered. I decided to hold of on the 18-55 IS lens and will save up for a zoom lens with it. It seems a little more applicable to the zoom lenses. Thanks for all of your help. This site allowed me to feel a little more confortable with the purchase.
     
  19. From one beginner to another, let me just say that I asked a similar question about a year ago and I got just as many responses, which to a begginer really made no sense other than what people recommended. Now I might have been more naive then you at the time and if all of this has clear definitions to you then you definately are more advanced then I was. What I recommend, if you are truly a beginner like I was, is that you learn as much as you possibly can about DSLRs before giving up your point and shoot camera. I thought I knew plenty about photography (having taken a class in high school) But digital SLR cameras are different and have many functions that can be overwhleming to a beginner. If you are really interested in photography, you will want to learn how to use all of those functions. Learn about the functions of the XTi, then learn about the purpose of all the available lenses within your budget, then if you are ready for it, which I am sure you will be, buy the body with the kit lens (18-55mm IS) and practice, practice, practice. I know several people that have bought the XTi and only use it in the auto mode, never using it to it's full potential and think to myself - wow what a waste of money. If you are worried about catching kids in motion with the kit lens, don't be. I have attached a picture taken with the 18-55mm non IS kit lens of some kiddos I caught jumping rope, although not perfect it's still okay.
    00Nz0d-40925584.JPG
     
  20. the funniest thing about this whole thread is that the only universal truth in all the answers was "DO NOT BUY THE ORIGINAL 18-55" and yet the op ignored us all and did just that... I don't get the point of asking advice and then ignoring it - if the answers had been all over the place I'd understand but at least five responses said to say away from the kit lens and either go with the new IS version or save for a better lens... Good luck and happy shooting but don't take the results you get with that lens to be the results that the xti is capable of - you have done the camera a disservice...
     
  21. Good point Mr. Carey. It came down to cost and functionality. I was not ready to spend the money to get what "You and I" really want but needed to compromise. I wanted to get a camera and be able to use it or as Mr Huerta stated, start practicing with. The way I see it the body cost around $540. For the extra $60 I got a lens that I can start using the camera with until I get the lens that are on everyones wish lists. Your and everyones input has not fallen on deaf ears although not followed as of today. Don't be so insulted.
     
  22. Good point... but I can also see the OP's choice as a reasonable one if the intention is to shoot a bit with this nearly free lens and then invest in better glass. But still... ;-) Dan
     
  23. whats a op?
     
  24. "OP" = "Original Poster" ie "you" in this case :)
     
  25. i wasn't offended...my main point was that you are putting a restriction on the camera but using the kit lens. If the pics you get don't seem to be "great" it could very well be that the lens takes a very nice little camera and turns it into a glorified point and shoot
     
  26. Personally I'd rather compromise on the body (e.g. buy a used XT instead of a new XTi) and not on the lens. Happy shooting, Yakim.
     
  27. Unfortunetly we have to start somewhere. Key word is start. I plan on expanding my tools. Money up front is tough when you don't get to use the toy until you get everything you want.
     

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