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Real state of the new Rating system


bbb1

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Now, that this new CFRating system is going on for a while, I would

like to know what is the shortest way to find my photograph and its

true rating state, cause I still have more rating on my photograph,

when I open it to see comments, but when I succeed in finding it on

the Rating sum, after a great search, I see that the ratings differ

from the one I can see within my Portofolio!

Thank you,

Biliana

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So dear Christopher, this rating now is REAL, I mean real state of the rating, cause now I have e.g. 14 ratins in real new rating system and also 14 when I open my photograph from my Portfolio - at least my yesterday post and request for a critic!

But as you see, we have change the rating system, and maybe it is more fair like that, but still I dont have more constructive comments!?!??! uf.. we can not have it all, probably!

Thank you,

Biliana

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Just give it some time Biliana. I think many on this site, myself included, hesitated to offer constructive feedback because it was difficult to know who wanted honest comments and who wanted only praise. If one misjudged, they set themselves up for retaliation. With the new default TRP, things should become a little less competitive and more constructive. I suspect people will see fewer comments because there's no longer an incentive to post a "Wow 7/7" (a worthless comment anyway). Hopefully, those that do comment will try to compose a real critique. In other words, with comments, you'll see less quantity but more quality. At least I hope that's what will happen. I'll do my share.
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Dear Laurie,

thank you for your reply, but I am so confused, cause I see one rating on the Top sum aver. and then when I open my photographs it shows something quite different, and it is even more confused when I saw not so good photographs on the first page, and I have so much trouble to find the goods ones, cause even with all those applause and flatteries, we had good photographers, now everything is mixe-up and I cannot find nothing. Uf.. and it is so hard to go and give comment and to rate after, this is too long and too slow, at least for me!

I dont think that we are going to achieve the quality, neither the honest way of rating, just some confusion! uf..

I am so tired of this Rating game! I mean even if there were some kind of matte rating, still we have the same thing, still friends are supporting friends, and I see that most of my friends are still rating my photographs with their heart and feeling and not going to the Critique Forum rating system. uf.. this is too complicated for me!

I dont know nothing NOW!

I am confused and I am lost!!!

Thank you dear Laurie, I will try to be patient, but I am to energic and this dynamism is too slow for me, and I have the feeling that I am wasting my time, commenting each photograph, and waiting for some photographers to give me constructive comments.

Uf.. too tired I am ......

Hope.. hope is all I have left with :)

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And what more confusion! First I go to Top Photos, then I find my favorite one, then I go to the Critique Forum and list the critique requests, then I try to find the title or author of the one photograph that I have choose to rate, but I have to do it through this new rating system, cause I want that this rating and comment is valid. uf.. really this is tooooooooooo complicated for me!!! and to much of time I am spending on this rating system!!!!

Biliana

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and MORE, I would really LIKE TO SEE THE REAL RATING STATE of my photographs, and not having to go page by page on Top Photos?????

Is there some other way, cause the way that Christopher gave me is not so easy neither!

How??

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Biliana, no matter where a photo is when you rate it, the rate is "valid" as long as it's an honest rate. The only difference with the default TRP sort is that it uses ONLY the rates posted in the "rate recent" que to decide what order to display the photos.

 

If you want to rate or comment on a particular photographer's images, simply go to their site and comment or rate. It won't boost or lower them in the TRP. But....isn't that the point. The purpose of this site isn't to see who's at the "TOP", it's not to promote any one photographer over another, it's to see a variety of photographs, to learn, and to teach. This isn't and shouldn't be a competition. If where your images or the images of your friends end up in the overall average of all photos posted,is what you want to see, you can still view the same old TRP. When you go to "Top Photos" and the new default TRP shows up, go up to the top. There's a pull down menu. Scroll the the very top of it. Highlight "Average". Then click "Search". This will then display the photos they way you are accustomed to seeing them. The re-shuffle only takes a few seconds.

 

Biliana, I've followed your work and your comments for some time. You don't strike me as someone who's particularly interested in where your photos are on the TRP. Your work doesn't seem to follow the same "formula" that many of the images on the old default TRP adhered to. You're more of an individual and a free thinker. Your work is more sophisticated than that. Don't worry about the rates and the standings. You have fans on this site that appreciate you for your work not your reciprocal 7/7s.

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Biljana, you ARE looking at the "real" rating state. This one has no "rated with the heart" marks - no marks from friends. These are real, actualy, honest-to-goodness evaluations by people that rated objectively.

 

You'll be okay!

 

Methadone might help:)

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The Rate Recent Sum (and also Rate Recent Average) views in the Top Rated Photos show only the photos that have ratings through the Rate Recent Queue, and the "stats" are based only on the ratings received in the Rate Recent Queue. Since a photo that is not submitted for critique in the Critique Forum is not in the RR Queue, those photos won't be in either of these "Rate Recent" TRP views.

 

Rate Recent Average is just the averate of the RR ratings, and Rate Recent Sum is the total of the RR ratings. Since Rate Recent Sum is the default now, it means that only Critique Forum photos will be in the default view, and the ones near the beginning of the TRP view will be those that have been in the TRP long enough to get a few ratings.

 

Since photos drop down the queue after they have 10 ratings, the position in the TRP will almost always be based on about 10 ratings received in the RR queue (unless more people start rating deeper into the RR Queue). A really excellent photo that has just been submitted and has only, say, three 6 ratings, won't be as high in the RR Sum view as a photo that has been there long enough to get, say 6 4 ratings. This problem doesn't exist in the RR Average view, but that view will tend to dominated by photos lucky enough to get a few high ratings at the beginning. This is why I show "Sum" as the default.

 

By the way, there is no "rule" that says a photo can't get more than 10 ratings in the RR queue, it just doesn't tend to happen at present.

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Using Robert Brown's image as an example, http://www.photo.net/photo/3270877

, the upload date was 4/11 with a 6.0/6.3 average, but only three rates from the RFC queue. Is it possible that the RFC queue took other non-RFC rates into account in determining it's placement in the list? It looks like early nonRFC rates end up penalizing images. After all, they could come from the recent upload page and more likely from the TRP itself, not just mates making home page visits. If the queue could be programmed to ignore non-queue rates and base its' order on number of rates and date, but not average, then all images would have an equal chance of getting a statistically significant number of relatively unbiased rates from the queue.

 

Have you seen an increase in the volume of RFC queue rates yet?

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Brian,

 

Does this mean that for the time being we should not use our "interesting persons list" or just not rate interesting persons? Should we mention on our bio page for those interested in us not to rate us for a while? I'd hate to see the people deemed interesting to be penalized for the fact that they're interesting... Please let me know.

 

Regards,

Lisa

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Lisa, you could use your Interesting Person's list and recent contributions to write a comment on a person's new uploads. But for the time being a rating directly on a photo before it has ten ratings is going to hurt it in the TRP, if that is important to the photographer.
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Thank you dear Laurie, and you are right, I actually dont mind the rating and I am much more interest in good critic and constructive comment on my work, and yes I am a thinker, but as Lisa G. mention it, I have some photographers that I like thier photographs and style of photography and I would like to rate them, but it would hurt their rating in the TCF rating system, so what can I do?

I think I am not going to rate anyone any more, just living word of my admiration for some photographs and trying to give a constructive comment on other photographs!

Uf, Maybe we have to disable that rating feature, and only put comments, otherwise this is still a competition among photographers, and again without any constructive comments left on the photographs. so what is the point here? Ok. maybe the new rating system needs time!

Thank you for your comment dear Laurie.

All my best, Biliana

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So Lisa G. has the point dear Brian. I am also interested in rating and giving comments to those photographers that I like the best, and the fact is that on Photo Net we have good photographers, isn`t it?

So from now on, I will not rate anymore just giving comment because otherwise I will hurt my favorite photographers within the new rating system. So what is the point?

If I have to see all the photographs, it will take me so long, and I cannot find quicly the other better photographs, so I am still lost.

Uf.. I dont know!?!? Let see what is going to happen!

But still I wish I could rate my favorite photographers without any dammage to them cause simply I LIKE their Photography!!!

Thank you dear Brian for your reply!

All my best, and we will see what is going to happen!

Biliana

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Oh, Christopher dont be so mean! That wont help and still what do you have against people that they LIKE your work??? And what about photographers that I like with all my heart and soul????

I mean as Laurie said it above, this is not a competition site, so why can I rate my favorite photographers???

And methadone wont help! YOu are to cruel Christopher with your ironic comments???!!!! why???

Here I am not concern about the rating on my photographs any more, but about the other good photographers on Photo Net, that, NOW, I have problem to find on the site and I cannot rate them if they did not request a critic, so if I rate them as usual, CAUSE I LIKE THEIR PHOTOGRAPHY AND STYLE, it is going to hurt their rating. so what is the point here???

If you dont have anything constructive and helpfull to say, please Christopher dont be sarcastic!

Thank you,

Biliana

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So, as we had that great discussion against the MATTE RATING, it seems that we are not allowed any more to have our favorite photographers!?!?! How is it possible, that the Team on PN, wanted to banish FRIENDSHIP on the site??? this is not real!?!?! Why would anyone have anything against FRiendship!!!??? I am so disappointed!

As Laurie said it above, this is not a Competition site or is it??? If we are not All friends on the site, what are we???

Thank you, I am so upset now and stressed ;-(

Biliana

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To my mind, the whole concept of rating is suspect. On a site the size of PN, there is no

way that anybody who has a life away from their keyboard can ever view every picture

submitted to the site each day. That being the case, images cannot be fairly rated against

each other. So, instead, an arbitrary and subjective standard will prevail in which raters

look at individual images and assign them a score on the two scales. This is then given a

spurious validity by having a ratings table, which gives the ratings a level of credence they

don't deserve. The concept of "mate-rating" is just another aberration that sits on top of

the system.

 

No doubt there is a demand from some users of PN who derive confirmation (affirmation?)

from the rating they receive, especially those users of a competitive nature. What a pity

they don't have confidence in their own ability.

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Biliana, Friendship is alive an well on p.net. It just won't get you into the TRP. You can rate your friends all day long if you want. There is no rule against it. It just won't manifest itself in the same 30 people getting maximum visibility here on P.net all the time... That's all...
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Biliana, I don't think anyone wants to banish friendship at all. The goal, I believe, is simply to "even the playing field" for ratings.

 

Not putting numbers on "friends" is a smart practice no matter what the circumstances, don't you think? There's less objectivity.

 

And I'm sorry about the sarcasm - it's just that you're pretty worked up about not being able to participate in the rating of your friends the way you used to, and you always told us that you didn't find that important. You're even saying that above, now. Fact is, as you see above, you CAN rate them all you want. It just hurts their usual visibility and domination of the TRP. If that's important to you...Well, my bad. No more sarcasm.

 

You wrote above - that you'd like to see "better" photography. Personally, I'm finding plenty, right in the Gallery's TRP. I just don't see your usual friends there anymore. If they are the ones you consider "better," finding them should be easy through your list of interesting photographers. So, I guess I don't understand your dilema? Help us understand!

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Friends are still important, and the Interesting People list is still a useful feature. You can always use this feature to, like, LOOK at the new photos that your friends are uploading, or even, you know, like, COMMENT on them. Why is slapping a couple of 7's on them so important?
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I look at this all somewhat differently. I think ANY shake-up is a good thing periodically, and that this system, too, should have a limited life and someday be overhauled. But, for now, let's enjoy it.

 

We've all made our friends under the old system, and we all become accustomed to seeing a certain set of photographers and type of photos migrate to the front of the TRP. Now, the system is going to shake it up and push some other folks and other photos there for a while, and we can make some new friends. And, the preferred mode for making new friends for a while will be leaving substantive comments instead of trying to help them win a competition to be on the TRP (which, let's face it, is what all those 7s are about).

 

There are a LOT of other ways besides the TRP to find new and interesting photographers. I like to look at the photos other people are commenting on, for example. And it's always good to do different sorts on the TRP.

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