Re: Disabled Off Topic Forum

<p>Just a heads up: At least three of us have tried to respond to Cara's post in the OT forum and, guess what? It really is disabled! Duh! So, don't bother trying... ;-)</p>

<p>Permanently disabling the OT forum might be the best thing that's happened to PN since sliced read and canned beer. Some folks there have been out of control for too long.</p>

<p>That thread recently started by Cara reads that there have been 5 responses. However the responses themselves are not visible. The system counts the comments even if they otherwise count for nothing.</p>

<p>For the reasons Cara stated, I think the OT shutdown was justified, which is what I wanted to pass on to her. But, there's a possible unintended consequence that some of the rudeness we've been seeing will start popping up in other forums, kind of like a whackamole game. Having an OT forum for the usual suspects to gravitate to might not be a bad idea, kind of like having a pile of poop downwind to draw flies away from the picnic...</p>

<p>Agree, but I hope (know, really) that the mods are smart enough to ban the moles who bring that kind of nonsense to other forums where it is inappropriate.</p>

<p>Can someone here describe exactly with specifics what is nonsense, out of control and inappropriate responses?</p>

<p>I just need to know if I'm one of those who respond that way.</p>

<p>I free thought a lot of my responses and don't worry much about whether I'm offending anyone, but things can be read the wrong way or written off tone to be interpreted as inappropriate or mistaken from the normal run of the mill anti-social behavior that I see here and everywhere else on the web.</p>

<p>I mean anti-social is defined as people who don't want to be around real people and that's pretty much how the internet functions. I don't even know what you people look like. I must be anti-social.</p>

<p>BTW was the above response out of control, nonsense and inappropriate?</p>

<p>Outside of the few people who perpetually haunted the OT forum I would guess few others will miss it.<br>

Although the forum is now closed all of the "toxic" rants are still visible. Given that the forum is closed and will not be reopened perhaps it would be prudent to remove the content from view. Leave up Cara's notice for a bit and then put the forum out of its misery.</p>

 

<p>There's an old Chinese curse, apparently, that goes like this: "May you live in interesting times."</p>

<p>Like it or not, we do now live in interesting times, and there are a lot of frustrated people who do not have any sort of outlet to discuss politics and the like. For what it's worth, the discussion on pnet has not been dominated by professional trolls (I have met many, in a previous forum life), and discussion has been positively civilized compared to the 'open' internet. I hope the mods take this into account when they decide what to do with the off topic forum.</p>

<p>I would second Jody's post; I find the discussions in OT threads are of a much higher quality than most. There is a back and forth exchange of ideas. Sometimes things get heated, but I believe the exchange of ideas is a good outlet and is quite tame. I don't often see ignorant troll type replies that dominate so many forums. I appreciate the caliber of intellect that frequents these forums.</p>

<p>"I free thought a lot of my responses and don't worry much about whether I'm offending anyone" That could be the problem!</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"I free thought a lot of my responses and don't worry much about whether I'm offending anyone" That could be the problem!</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Please point out some of those free thoughts that offended, T Holte. You're the only one so far alerting me to a problem.</p>

<p>Nice come back though, just not as imaginative as I'ld hoped.</p>

<p>Oh darn, let out one of those free farts...oops! I mean free thoughts. I guess you get what you pay for. It's free. That's got to be good, right?</p>

<p>Tim L, what if Tim H meant it as a generic remark, and not specifically aimed at you? This is, in my view, a pretty perfect example of where the problem starts.<br>

What Tim L indicated, is in my view the big problem about internet forum exchanges in general. If one doesn't consider whether it could be offensive, then it is very likely to be read as offensive. Sarcasm, irony, or just silly fun - so much gets lost because you cannot see a facial expression with it, because the intent and spirit in which words are written are unclear.... it's too easy to misread someone. You simply have to consider whether you offend someone simply because you cannot look somebody in the face, smile and take away that sour taste you just left. The Off Topic forum suffered this problem massively.<br />At some point, it becomes unclear whether the personal arguments weren't just born from these kind of misreading and/or feeling personally attacked when no attack was being made...I mean, disagreeing on some political issue can get heated, but would not need to get personally nasty, no? Well, a lot of water under the bridge, but something to contemplate (for ourselves).</p>

<p>It is sad it works out this way. I never participated much in the Off Topic forums but followed a lot of the threads. The intellect present and the quality of the actual things being said was often really good; it's a shame. On the other hand, Cara's decision makes sense. Photo.net is primarily a photography site, and if the vitriolic atmosphere of the Off Topic forum harms the objectives this site has, shutting it down is the only right thing to do.</p>

<p>The number of invisible responses to Cara's posting over at the now defunct OT forum has risen to 10.<br>

I have to wonder how long people will continue to post invisible additions to a non existent thread.<br>

Most likely more interesting than if I could read the comments.</p>

<p>"Most likely more interesting than if I could read the comments"</p>

<p>But, then, it wouldn't be disabled, right? ;-)</p>

<p>Tim,<br>

Within a thread on the subject of a forum being closed due to the number of offensive comments being made, you make a statement to the effect that you do not worry about whether you offend people. When Tim suggests that contributors not worrying about offending people might be the problem , you become offended ?</p>

<p>It's just a glitch in the admin tools for the forums. Replies are held in a bin awaiting approval or deletion. I don't see any unacceptable comments on that OT forum thread. It's just a digression from the existing threads on the same topic here on the site help forum.</p>

<p>I've added a note reminding folks to comment on this issue by using the existing threads on the site help forum.</p>

<p>"Nice come back though, just not as imaginative as I'ld hoped." I don't consider myself very imaginative. You did, however, re-inforce my belief that the really interesting people here on PN have something to do with photography. </p>

<blockquote>

<p>You're the only one so far alerting me to a problem.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>He's not the only one thinking it, though.</p>

<p>And it's <em>precisely </em>stuff like:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>BTW was the above response out of control, nonsense and inappropriate?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>And</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Oh darn, let out one of those free farts...oops! I mean free thoughts. I guess you get what you pay for. It's free. That's got to be good, right?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>which exemplifies the problem: do you <em>always </em>have to have the last word? And does it <em>always</em> have to be smartarsed?</p>

<p>Let your inner censor see the light of day now and again, eh?</p>

<p>(And yes, I'm well aware that by allowing myself to be dragged in by a troll, I'm contributing to the risk that the Whack-a-Mole game will indeed pop up on other forums. So I'm done with this subject).</p>

<p>I found a lot of interesting stuff in the Off Topic forum-worth a visit occasionally. It is a personal choice whether to be offended. Especially on an internet forum you cannot hurt me unless I agree to be hurt. I have said my share of dumb things. I contribute here and there. I think the Off Topic forum is generally a good idea.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I think the Off Topic forum is generally a good idea.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

There are plenty of places on the web to find things like the Off Topic Forum.<br>

<br>

On the other hand, a new user shows up and sees the Off Topic Forum and, well, there they go, off in search of a more pleasant place. Or an advertiser looks to see what they're paying for and find out it's something where one can be offended if one doesn't make the right "personal choice." <br>

Seems like a lot of people here have trouble thinking about what it takes to have a successful photography site. Kind of resembles the OT Forum in general.</p>

<p>Jeff: I'm not sure that PN subscribers necessarily have difficulty in coming up with criteria for the site to be successful. I would hope that Admin plans to publish the results of the opinion poll that recently was circulated; this should tell you what you need to know.</p>

<p>I have nothing left to say about OT . . . except that I would hope that site administrators and moderators don't confuse enforcement of site standards with mere differences of opinion and how those opinions are expressed.</p>

<p>Well, I'm sad to see the OT forum shut down. We have such a diversity of talents and experiences here, that when someone has a question or wants to discuss an issue, there are going to be at least a few people with something intelligent or informative to say.</p>

<p>Case in point: Dock construction. I got some great advice from my friends here about what screws I should use and how I should run my electric. I could have gotten the same advice elsewhere, no doubt, but I would rather hear from people I actually know, rather than complete strangers. If I wanted the advice of strangers, I'd just trust blindly in everything contractors tell me. I feel I know something about the advice I'm getting if I know something of the people giving it.</p>

<p>Another case in point: What's this weird "thing" that's invaded my house?! Matt Laur's wife had the answer -- oxalis seeds that blew through the window screen. What a relief!</p>

<p>I like to think I've also offered a few useful non-photographic things to my friends. Perhaps someone is enjoying my pizza crust recipe tonight?</p>

<p>And yes, I've participated in heated political discussions, but I think I've learned a few things from them, and hopefully others have too.</p>

<p>If political rants are the problem, then perhaps we should have an OTSP thread -- Off Topic, Sans Politics. I swear, I love the things that Michael Chang tosses up from time to time! Great stuff!</p>

<p>The silver lining might be that I'll waste a bit less time here. I notice I've lost a canister, and my goal, truly, is to wean myself down to a single canister or less.</p>

<i>If political rants are the problem, then perhaps we should have an OTSP thread -- Off Topic, Sans Politics.</i><P>

Sarah, that is currently in the works. The administration and moderators recognize that photo.net users have additional interests outside of photography, and we hope to provide a place for positive discussions about those.

<p>^^^ That would be wonderful! It would be like conversation around the table on Thanksgiving, with an implicit truce whereby no politics or religion are allowed. That works well in <em>my</em> family, despite our considerable political and spiritual diversity! ;-)</p>

<p>Matt and Sarah: Thanks for a breath of fresh air. I wholeheartedly support the creation of the sort of forum both of you have mentioned.</p>