cimino55 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Hello, I am ready to upgrade from a Canon 5D, to either the 1Ds Mark II or 1DsMark III. I've having a bit of dilemma, due to the fact that I don't want tospend $6000 for a new 1Ds MKII, and really the only other place to get a goodused body will be "that auction site." That scares me a little to spend$3500-$4000 on a used camera body. The we have the new flagship 1Ds Mark III... Can't find it anywhere, and I'll pretty much have to beg, borrow and steal todrop $8000 on a camera body, but I can do it. I have another $5000 for lenses,at the moment. I want to use the camera to continue doing weddings, then after weddingseason, I am going to Africa for a few months to do documentary work for mywebsite. I've traveled with a Contax 645 to Africa 6 times, and it never failedme once. I need a hard-core camera body that can live up to well, torturebasically. When I go on photography trips, I don't pussyfoot around in touristbuses, I get right in there with the locals. I like to assimilate into theculture, and really feel like I'm there. Dust, rain, snow...they are all partof the equation! What would you do? I'm trying to break through, by not beingordinary, but extraordinary... If I choose the 1Ds Mark III, when will I be able to buy it. B+H is fresh out... Thanks for your time, Adam Cimino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eos 10 fan Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Umm... Neither? My first thought was to a 1D III, especially for the wedding & dusty bits. Then I read this post - http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00O496 Please keep in mind i'm 'bench racing' here and have not shot with any of the above gear. -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disneyry Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I'd wait to see if Canon announces a new 5d this month and see what it does to prices for used 1ds Mark IIs. If they don't announce it until the fall, and I've got to have it now, and I've got the cash, I'd buy a good used one from KEH or some other reputable reseller. It will cost you more than the auction site, but you're paying for reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asher Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 <p><i>"I want to use the camera to continue doing weddings, then after wedding season, I am going to Africa for a few months to do documentary work for my website."</i> <p> Why not get a second 5D (or whatever the new incarnation will be that's supposedly being announced next week) for your wedding work, and get a used 1D/1D MkII for your abusive travel "documentary work for my website"? Do you really need 21 MP full frame for photos that will go on your website? Do you really need 21 MP or even 16 MP for anything? I know of several successful wedding photographers who do very well with 8-10 MP cameras.<p> You might also be interested to read <a href="http://jeffascough.typepad.com/wpj_resource/equipment/index.html">this article by Jeff Ascough (see "Cameras and the Desire to Upgrade", second story down)</a>. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendel_leisk Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Almost everything in your post is at odds with your opening sentence. Do you *need* another camera? I'd be inclined to just sit tight with the 5D till your needs gell and/or the money is easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakim_peled1 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 1. Why do you write off the 1D Mk II/N and 1D Mk III? 2. A very good second-hand forum is in at FM. From personal experience, sellers and buyers are very honest people. http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/board/10 Happy shooting, Yakim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djphoto Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Save your money. Either of the 1Ds series is overkill for the work you do. Steve Frischling has been doing high-level PJ and weddings very successfully for several years with an original 4-megapixel 1D. The 1DII, 1DIIn or the 1DIII are all plenty of camera for your needs. http://flyingwithfish.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinsouthern Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 "Please keep in mind i'm 'bench racing' here and have not shot with any of the above gear." Dan - trust me (and many others) the 1D3 is absolutely fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher hartt dallas Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I agree that the 1DIIN or 1DIII would be better bets for wedding/photojournalism. I shoot a LOT of weddings and because I have them, use 1DsII's but really prefer my 1DIIN and 1DIII (blue dot version) even more. Unless you're shooting a bridal portrait, file sizes above 8 megapixels aren't necessary. If the odd shot that needs more pixels should arise later, there is always Genuine Fractals. I definitely encourage the 1 series cameras over the 5D because of the dual-card capability - you never know when a CF might decide to malfunction during an important shoot. That second SD card can be a life-saver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_canazzi Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Workflow ...Workflow...WorkSLOW with bigger files that you may never need. I use a 5D and no one ever needed anything bigger than a 20x24 which it can easily do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinsouthern Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 "I use a 5D and no one ever needed anything bigger than a 20x24 which it can easily do." The 5D is completely incompatable with "I need a hard-core camera body that can live up to well, torture basically." and "Dust, rain, snow...they are all part of the equation!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_beckmann Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 I have never exposed cameras to torture during any wedding photography. The average wedding is not Rallye Paris-Dakar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimino55 Posted January 20, 2008 Author Share Posted January 20, 2008 Rallye Paris-Dakar...that kills me. I saw that in Erfoud, Morocco, or somewhere around there. It's looking like a good used 1Ds MkII. I don't want to sell an organ for a 1Ds MKIII. I'm not interested in carrying a 5D in a plastic bag should I want to shoot near water. Thanks for your help... Anyone have a 1Ds MKII they want to sell? :) Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakim_peled1 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 >> Dan - trust me (and many others) the 1D3 is absolutely fine. http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/596128 I think that these 27 pages (and counting...) suggest that not all are indeed fine. Happy shooting, Yakim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johns racing photos Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 I used a 5D last year for 50+ nights of Dirt Motorsports Racing. If you have never been to a Dirt Track race let me tell you that a White car will turn Brown with the settling dust. Not to mention most events are at night with high humidity(dew) and in the spring/fall COLD. then there is also the occasional rain and baking sun. I had zero problems with the 5D or the attached 70-200 f/2.8L IS. I sent them both to Canon for cleaning and adjustment at the end of the race season and there were no noted problems. Can't imagine any more rugged than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinsouthern Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 "I think that these 27 pages (and counting...) suggest that not all are indeed fine." I wonder how many pages it would come to if all those who were happy were to post their experiences - probably several hundred thousand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 "Can't imagine any more rugged than that." I can ... something a bit more "rugged" than this: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00M7SE http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00MiN6 http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00LmCF http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00NuEo (There are "27" pages of this also" : -) As they age, putting a Prosumer camera to a real world professional test is a crap shoot IMO. To each his or her own. RE: 1DMK3. Lots of controversy. I'm sure there is a problem, and all those professional sports shooters aren't dreaming up problems for themselves. They have the camera, so are just as vulnerable to a "devaluated" image as those of us who have the camera and use it for work less demanding than sports, auto racing or birding photography ... the very thing this camera is supposedly designed to do. That said, it appears the 1DMK3 is perfectly suited for Wedding and Event work ... which was the subject of this thread. My early serial number 1DMK3 has not suffered from the AF issue at all ... however, I have yet had a bride do the aisle in under 4 seconds while leaping hurdles in hot conditions as I hose off 10 FPS in AI Servo ... and so far (finger crossed) the mirror hasn't fallen out during the kiss shot like a 5D : -) The 1DMK3 returns to Canon today for the updated mirror box fix. All-in-all, the various upgraded functions like Live-view, lighter weight, 14 bit, 3" LCD, ease of controls, dust control, and its improved pro-level build quality are incremental advancements that make it a nice option for wedding and event shooters. Now if Canon would only back off the AA filter a bit, and fix their wide angle optics it'd be a dream system for any wedding & event shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimino55 Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Thank you Mark...I will avoid the 5D like I do broccoli... I've decided to sell one of my organs to get a 1Ds MKIII... Which one gets the highest price? Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 The one with the least disease Adam : -) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_chappell Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 <I>I wonder how many pages it would come to if all those who were happy were to post their experiences - probably several hundred thousand.</I><P> More lipstick on a pig, IMHO. Many early 1D3 cameras had abysmal autofocus in AI Servo mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 "Many early 1D3 cameras had abysmal autofocus in AI Servo mode." "Abysmal" sounds like an exaggeration just for the sake of argument Mark. The samples I've seen do show an intermittent problem under certain conditions, but "abysmal"? The question is ... does the Canon "recall" replacement of the mirror box assembly bring those earlier cameras up to the same standard as the so called "Blue Dot" later cameras? (Not debating IF the fix to the new cameras is adequate to correct it, just wether the fix to the older ones is equal to the newer cameras). If so, then no problem since Canon has made this fix painless to owners of the earlier models. If NOT, then Canon simply should have replaced the first cameras altogether. If NOT, it would be interesting to investigate wether Michigan's "Lemon Law" can be applied here ... under this Law, attorney fees have to be paid by the manufacturer. If my camera isn't fixed when it returns, I may ask my attorney. If not, perhaps a class action suit is the next step? The economy is what's "abysmal" and few photographers can afford such a major depreciation hit to their income. It may also mean that some hungry Law firm would be willing to take on yet another indifferent "Global Corporation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_chappell Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 As I said in an earlier thread, when I first considered getting a 1D3, I talked to 6 or 8 early buyers of the 1D3 who tried it for wildlife action shots (birds in flight, etc.). Every single one reported unreliable AI Servo AF and returned the cameras. One guy tried two of them and both were bad. Didn't Galbraith report finding the problem in all the early cameras he tried? In my use of the word "abysmal" I mean "can't be trusted to perform reliably", which I think sums up the servo AF situation with early production 1D3's. That said, I now have a 'blue dot' 1D3 and it seems to perform about as well as my older 1D2 in AI Servo. Maybe a little better in dim light, and -- very subjectively; haven't tested this in any statistically meaningful way -- maybe not quite as many in-focus 'keepers' in bright sunlight. I like the camera but because of the unfortunate issues with earlier models, I can't help being a little suspicious of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtrace Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 "If so, then no problem since Canon has made this fix painless to owners of the earlier models." Painless would be an understatement. If not for the "Galbraith Report", I wonder when Canon would have done something. I remember people ripping Rob at that time, but Canon screwed the customers over big time. 5D or 1DMK3 - consumer or pro - both have issues. BUT, early adopters pay the price. I just think quality control is getting too lax at Canon. Maybe now that Nikon has upped the game, they will get more on the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakim_peled1 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 >> I wonder how many pages it would come to if all those who were happy were to post their experiences - probably several hundred thousand. Before Canon announced the fix FM had two big surveys on this. Several hundreds of users took part in each. The results were approximately 50/50. It is likely to assume that now, when blue dot units are in the market and fix is available, the percentage will be markedly different. Nevertheless, I am not yet ready to dive into the cold water. I am an amateur and such amount of money is very considerable to me. I prefer to wait until I am satisfied that all new units are 100% fine. As always, YMMV. Happy shooting, Yakim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Yeah Bogdan ... I wonder where the beta testers were on all this? Even worse than this was the Leica M8 experience where no one seemed to notice that the camera turned any synthetic black material into magenta ... which I blew the whistle on the day I got mine. I think it's the frenzied rush to market to preempt the competition that is turning the general buying public into beta testers. A greedy and stupid policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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