Ratings on photos

What is going on with the critique forum? I almost hate to post my pictures

anymore. I am getting more and more disappointed with the way the photos are

rated. I have noticed alot of patterns. For instance. If 1 photo gets rated

say 4/4 - no matter what the subject matter is..they ALL tend to get the 4/4

rating, and very quickly. I wish this feature was removed. That way everyone

should step up to the plate and expalin their ratings. So for all those 3/3

people out there that was having a bad day that day and took it out on your

photo, would have some explaining to do. I know I can not be the only one that

feels this way. I have come to a point where I need some answers and feed back

form other members on this matter. It is very irritating.

I respect other peoples works. They obviously want some constructive critism,

even if it is to build them up or help them improve. They pay for this site,

and I feel that it is entitled to each and every paying member of this site.

It is funny how I get a rating in 1 second after posting. I'd rather someone

take their time and rate only 4 or 5 photos, then to rate 100 photos at the

speed of lightning depending on their mood for that day..Just wanted to say,

stop and smell the roses. Remember what this site is for. Does anyone else

agree on this? I am new at this site as well as photography and I need help. I

have come here with good intentions. Thank you for reading.

Julie, I do agree. While I've made some mistakes rating myself and now am trying only to do so when I've got something constructive to offer, I've heard from a few different PN'ers that ultimately you should discount the ratings and pay more attention to the critiques and comments themselves.

I've found most to be polite, helpfull and encouraging. I dont know if anything can be done about the 'system' but I personally feel much better to have someone comment than rate because at least then you know they took the time to look at your work and arent just flashing through the rating section like I made the mistake of doing before I understood a little better what was going on.

 

To all those people I misrated, my appologies. I dont feel that I am far enough along in the field to give sound critiques with the weight of experience behind them but hope that any observations I've given helpful.

Thank you Nicole. I appreciate your honesty for I think we have all been apart of the unfair rating system. I've also decided to take time and enjoy the pictures. There is so many and it seems over whelming sometimes.

... please remember that the entire internet can get a free account and start rating.

Just one example: my wife. She will never rate a snake picture more than 1/1 because she hate snakes :)... and I have not been able to convince her that some of them are GREAT photos.

I guess there are many more like my wife out there :)

 

As Nicole said, I appreciate more the comments and number of votes (not the value) because that means the picture moved something in their brains like it did in mine...

Best Regards.

Julie, all I can tell you is that you have to try to get past the whole rating system. I had a portfolio for about 10 months but removed it simply because the ratings were bothering me. After seeing so much discussion, I finally decided to put a new portfolio up, and just submit photos for critique only. That way I'm getting help and guidance where I need it. I've also stopped rating other people's work as well. I prefer to express myself in an honest, open manner rather than in an anonymous numerical way.

This has been the most help I have gotten since I have signed up. You all seem so kind. I thank you for all of your honesty. I feel somewhat better. I was thinking my start was terrible or something. Took it to heart a little too much. I guess because I became so passionate about others work. Now I have gotten some very nice comments from people who actually critique and review it. I was just kindof taken back by the annonymous ratings. Would be nice to see it removed all together. 1st time photographers could be let down pretty easily by it. Thanks again.

We all our sensitive about our work. To think people are going to be able to absorb the grand meaning behind a photo that is aesthetically average is asking a lot and maybe should be posted in the critique only (no rating) forum as reviewers tend to take more time there. As someone who rarely gets above a 4 as well I can say I'm fine with it as I may give it a personal rating much higher. Also you need to remember that when you get a 3/3 rating there may be a person on the other end that has some art experience and not a hard-ass. We tend to think we never produce crap but in truth I'm surprised some of my early postings weren't rated lower as my own standards have increased. Many times people are overly nice:)

Why are critiques so important to so many people? There's so many posts about this subject in this forum. I can't be the only person who doesn't care what other people think of his work can I? It's nice when someone emails me to praise my work or leaves a nice comment on my gallery of course. When someone says that I have sloppy composition or poor darkroom skills they are certainly entitled to that opinion. However, nothing anyone says is going to change how I do things. It seems like some people here place way too much importance on critiques which is to say they seem to be looking for some sort of acceptance. In turn this has an effect on their work that ultimatly means it's no longer true to them. Every photographer has to find their own path and follow it. You will know in your heart if your work is true to you. If it's not then you must explore other avenues. If you are being held back by technical issues then take a class. When you know your work is as it should be regardless of what others may say then you achieve a freedom that cannot be described only experienced.

While it may be true that every photographer has to find his own path and follow it, you will only get positive response from others if they like it. So don't plan on being a pro if you only care about your own opinion - clients like their opinion instead.

 

It's always good to see what other people think of a photo, and comments are the way to discover that. Sometimes we post photos that we think are great, and others see distractions that we didn't notice. They may offer cropping or compositional options, or just say they don't like it. All of that is OK, and we need to be able to deal with it.

 

The ratings system is irritating because it just seems like nothing that has been done to help it (and there have been many changes to it since I've been around here) has worked. It is better than it used to be in the "revenge-rating" days. It's irritating because the answer that always seems to come from the site is that ratings shouldn't matter, and that you shouldn't pay any attention to them. At the same time, visibility on the site is determined solely by the one thing that we are told over and over again is not important - ratings.

 

But, for your own peace of mind, look for good comments and let the 3/3 folks have their fun. I think the ratings on the last photo I posted went all the way from 3/3 to 7/7. I didn't think it was a 3/3, but I sure wouldn't have given it a 7/7 either. Life goes on.

Just keep taking photos and look at those you like better than you like your own. Use them for education. Keep at it.

 

Cheers.

You know Marc, in a lot of ways you are right and unltimately it is US who has to be happy with our work, but at the same time it's important for some of us beginners to have an outside opinion for a few different reasons.

 

1) We havent got enough experience to know all the tricks of the trade and can benefit from others when they make helpful comments that throw light on something we hadnt seen before, ie. I had posted a photo of my brother playing the guitar taken at an angle from the head of the guitar. Some thoughtful PN'er suggested that I might want to flip it because the western eye tends to travel from left to right and that would draw the eye more into the photo. I followed his suggestion and reposted the photo and I much prefer the second version. I would not have even thought to do that myself.

 

2)Both praise and critique help to push us to do better work. When someone praises my photo, it gives me extra confidence and helps motivate me to take more photo's and try to develop my style, and when someone gives me a critique it forces me to look at my photo in a different way and take those factors into consideration when shooting/composing/editing another work.

 

I think others opinions are invaluable as well as getting to see their bodies of work and be inspired by those.

Also, I have decided not to rate a photo unless I intend to provide a comment as well and that way the reciever wont be left with any of the questions we've all had since starting here...at least not from me :)

The 3/3 schmucks have gotten so much criticism lately, they are transmuting into the new and improved 4/4 schmucks. That will allow them to sleep better at night. All you need is a "troll immunity pill", and some useful criticism from people who know what the hell they're talking about, and the discrimination to know the difference.

Josh Bell, one of the world's top violinists recently did an experiment where he played in a train station with an open case at his feet with a few coins dropped in. In like an hour or two of playing, three people stopped for a significant amount of time, only one recognized him. The rest didn't have a clue. What does that tell you as far as society and art?

The Josh Bell experiment:

 

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_04/011101.php

I don't know who Josh Bell is and not knowing him doesn't tell me anything about my level of art appreciation. I could easily pick out the world's top shakuhachi players and the guy next to me probably couldn't. We stop for only art we like, whether it is music or photography. People aren't going to stop for something that doesn't move them and art doesn't pay the bills of someone rushing to work to pay the rent that's overdue. Not stopping doesn't mean anything, violin music may not be for one guy as the same with a photograph that gets a 3/3. I've only been here for less than a year so I am not so cynical of ratings and I've gotten good advice so far.

I partially agree John. Knowledgeable advice is one thing, someone sweeping through rating everything 3/3 or 4/4 is completely different. If they really do know what the hell they're talking about, one would hope they would validate their opinion with a useful critique. Any idiot can press 3/3, and often does.

Just read the artice, good article. As stated in the article it is not so much about our level of art appreciation but rather our ability to appreciate life. Next time I hear a good musician I will stop a little longer to appreciate it.

 

Bruce, sounds like you are advocating the total removal of the rating system and crique only. My only small argument would be that we don't know how much time people are taking to review photos and we don't know how long it takes to make an accurate appraisal. Therefore post at your own risk and take it with a grain of salt. As of right now most posted images only get 5-10 ratings before it gets diluted by newer photos. I guess there is no easy fix.

I don't advocate removal of the rating system. The main purpose of ratings as I see it is increased visibility to induce constructive advice. Would requiring a critique or non-anonymous ratings change anything? I don't know. If 4/4 was the lowest you could give without requiring a critique, I'd guess the 3/3 schmucks would just move up to 4/4. It's a vicious circle.

It stinks that no system will ever be perfect but I think you've got a good idea Bruce. Even if they moved up to 4/4, at least we would know who they were are be able to inquire of them.

I think for me it all boils down to this. I do not care about the ratings. I care about WHY they rated the picture. Some people are just to sensitive. People have to toughin up - maybe make a system where the picture indicates if it can be critiqued or not. Who knows. I am here to get poked and picked. I rather enjoy it, and find it rewarding so that I have the means to improve.

I think the rating system is the thing that keeps photo.net going.

Lately, it has been more and more difficult to figure out how

it works, however. I have been member of the community some 3 years

now, and work as a semipro photographer. On average, I get about 1/1

rating point lower ratings now than 3 years ago. Do not worry - I

do not think that 3 years of photograpic experience has made

me about 20% worse photographer. Instead, I have been getting

the "3/3 curse" a lot lately - in virtually every photo there

is one anonymous 3/3 at the bottom of the heap.

 

What could help? My suggestion: unanonymous rating - that is,

the ratings that have effect of the rating average should

linkable to a person. You could have an unofficial anonymous

ratings, too, but the fact is that nowadays one 3/3 can spoil

the show for a good photo of getting it into the "top photos"

list.

 

So, as a counter argument on "why do people care about ratings":

why do people care about posting photos to photo.net? To

get them rated. Preferably, with comments. But always with

a true named person behind the rating. This is not a democratic

election, this is a about developing one another in the fine

art of photography. The anonymous jerk 3/3s are shaking the very

foundation of the system this entire site was built upon!

 

Regards,

 

Olli Pekonen (www.petrilux.com; www.iki.fi/ope)

Let me play the devil's advocate. If someone honestly believes a picture deserves a 3/3 then who is to say that it should not receive a 3/3? You may be a professional and regard your work as gold but that doesn't mean it is. If people are afraid of giving a 3/3 then the new 3/3 will be the 4/4. If people are afraid to give a 3/3 when you make it no longer anonymous then is the system broke once again? By knowing who gave you a 3/3 do you want to chase down that person and get a response? In my mind that's a waste of time nor should a person be required to give a response.

 

Would this be effective? Only members who actually pay dues to the website can actually rate photos since that is a anonymous? Soley critique forum can still include non-paying members since your post is linked to your profile. My guess is that those of us that pay do play a positive role on the site. Someone who doesn't pay may not care as much and may just be a person that changes usernames all of the time and passes from site to site. This is not to say that the non-paying members aren't vital to the site but that there may be a higher percentage of malicious raters that exist in the non-paying member pool.

It's common sense that the people who sweep through and rate virtually all the shots 3/3 are going to diminish significantly if their name is connected. No one wants to show themselves to be mindless schmucks that anonymous ratings allow. One doesn't even need the critique. I think knowing who they are would be significant, for no other reason then we can judge if it's coming from a place of knowledge and understanding, or if it's just coming from a schmuck.

I fully agree with you, Bruce. That is exactly my point. I have

absolutely nothing against someone giving me a 3/3, or 1/1, for that matter, if the person can honestly, even with 3 words, tell me why the photo sucks so much. I could take that input, and improve, and probably be thankful for the input.

 

But is is not nice to see, among 10 ratings, 5s, 6s, and 7s, and then the silent, anonymous 3/3 that sits there at the bottom of the

rating heap just like a turd that some drunk SOB dropped at your

front lawn before sunrise. That stinker helps absolutely

no-one in getting anything done - on the contrary, it just

creates confusion.

I totally agree Olli. I do not mind getting 3/3 as long as I deserve it. But When I have all annonymous 6\6 7/6 ect. then a 3/3 thats what gets me. This isn't photo.net.high school. I graduated along time ago (some can tell by my spelling haha) I think a resolution maybe ratings for members only. That way if they pay and decide 3/3 then thats their right being a paying member. I think it may help eliminate some or most of them. I know there is times when my work is a 3/3. I am just learning photography. I wasnt born with a camera in my hand. I have to learn just like everyone else. I also know how to take critiques. Maybe make rules that are very clear that if you post you will be critiqued and to what others think. Have some type of conduct code. People just need to GROW UP! That's probably way to much to ask. The bottom line is my passion is photography. No one or 3/3 is going to take that passion away. For all those who read this. If you review my work and feel it is less than average SPEAK UP! I am not one of those whiners that sit back and cry about it. I go out and FIX IT!

I totally agree Olli. I do not mind getting 3/3 as long as I deserve it. But When I have all annonymous 6\6 7/6 ect. then a 3/3 thats what gets me. This isn't photo.net.high school. I graduated along time ago (some can tell by my spelling haha) I think a resolution maybe ratings for members only. That way if they pay and decide 3/3 then thats their right being a paying member. I think it may help eliminate some or most of them. I know there is times when my work is a 3/3. I am just learning photography. I wasnt born with a camera in my hand. I have to learn just like everyone else. I also know how to take critiques. Maybe make rules that are very clear that if you post you will be critiqued and to what others think. Have some type of conduct code. People just need to grow up! That's probably way to much to ask. The bottom line is my passion is photography. No one or 3/3 is going to take that passion away. For all those who read this. If you review my work and feel it is less than average SPEAK UP!I am not one of those whiners that sit back and cry about it. I go out and FIX IT!

No problem Julie, no 3/3 stinkers in your portfolio. One way to fix the scoring would be to remove the lowest score but also the highest score then average the remaining scores. Problem is that nowadays the majority of photos (at least mine) typically get say 6 ratings total so all of this debating about 6 measily scores is kind of pointless.

 

Olli, we should institute a computer breathalizer to keep the drunkards off of the website and rating photos. I usually rate photos higher when I am drunk but I am not an angry drunk.