Radio Popper and Pocket Wizard

<p>I am in the market for a wireless set up for my Canon flashes ( 580EX II, 580 EX I, 430 EX II, with STE2). I'm a bit undecided whether to go for PW or RP and I know there are a few views either way. My main question is whether or not the most suitable PW solution would be the Canon specific Flex TT5 or the Plus II options.</p>

<p>I am put off the Canon one by the interference problem which was widely discussed a while back. I believe a sock was provided to stick over the flash and I wonder if this is still the case. Can anyone tell me?</p>

<p>Also I keep reading about reliability concerns re the PWs outside.</p>

<p>I'm therefore veering towards the RP solution but would welcome anyone putting me right if I've made some incorrect assumptions. Similarly if anyone has experience with these systems I'd be grateful for a bit of advice.e</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p>William</p>

<p>William -</p>

<p>I'm a nikon guy so I can't comment on the interference issues with Canon - but I do know that my PW II's are very reliable (except for 1 instance where there was heavy wireless useage in the venue).</p>

<p>I've never had an issue with them outside - as long as there isn't substantial radio or wireless activity they behave well.</p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

<p>I'm also Nikon but I think PocketWizard is the gold standard of radio triggers. Most people only buy something else if they can't afford PocketWizard. While there are occasional issues from radio frequency interference, any other radio trigger would presumably suffer the same issues -- just like video crews' wireless microphones suffer interference issues and any other radio-based device can suffer interference. If you hear more complaints about PW, it's probably just becqause there are more PW units in use than other brands.</p>

<p>RPs also have their problems. Instead of looking at what others do, or which gear has the 'best' reputation, look at your own needs first. That should tell you all you need to know to make a decision.</p>

<p>For instance, I don't care about ETTL with my off camera flashes, so I picked Cybersyncs, which have (I can vouch for this) an incredible reliability record as well as incredible customer service. If I cared about ETTL, I don't know what I'd do. The radio interference thing is troubling with Pocket Wizards, and the reliability issues with RPs are also troubling.</p>

<p>From what I can tell, reading others' reasons and descriptions for going with one or the other, most want the ability to change power remotely, and not necessarily ETTL. I don't care at all about changing power--it would be nice, but not over the rock solid reliability I get with my Cybersyncs. I am Canon, BTW.</p>

<p>Thanks for the replies folks. All much appreciated. The thing that puts me off PW is the idea of having to put a "sock" thing on the flash to make it work with the product they made it to work with!</p>

<p>I haven't heard people complaining much about RP issues TBH but I will look further. Are there particular problems?</p>

<p>As far as my needs are concerned I do use ETTL and would want that ability and also living in the UK, my choices are somewhat different.</p>

<p>Maybe I need to do some more research and thanks so much to everyone for their help so far </p>

<p>William</p>

<p>William--go to the fredmiranda forum and read about some RP issues. I've also heard other event professionals say they had issues with RP reliability. Since I don't own them, I don't know about specific models.</p>

<p>William,</p>

<p>Do you need/want ETTL or are you happy with just dumb radio triggering? This is the fundamental question, answer that and advice will be forthcomming.</p>

<p>The Pocket Wizard sock workaround is only necessary for 580EX II flashes if you are using the TT5 set up, if you are using the Plus II's it has never been necessary. But the Plus II's require a sync cable and socket or workaround, only the 580 EX II has a sync socket. There are lots of dumb radio options with more versatility than the Plus II's. If you need ETTL control the only choices you have are the Radio Poppers or the Pocket Wizard TT's.</p>

<p>William --go to the fredmiranda forum and read about some PW Flex TT5 issues.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/954198">http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/954198</a></p>

<p>There are major differences how PW and RP operate, and how they deviate from the Nikon CLS system. They are much closer in Canon ETTL II. I think RP uses closer to Nikon CLS protocol, utilizing most of the CLS protocol, while PW drops the CLS protocol on major fetures, and substitute own use of flashes.</p>

<p>None of them if fully reliable yet, or easy to use on Nikon cameras. Canon users enjoy a bit better PW and RP reliability.</p>

<p>Use older PW for triggering only, and will be happy like David Haas says.</p>

<p>Great help folks, and thank you very much for it.</p>

<p>I do want the option of ETTL and I also use 580 EX and 430 EXII flashes which don't have the benefit of the sync sockets. I'm veering more and more to the RP solution. What do you reckon?</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p>William</p>

<p>If you like Canons wireless system and having the flexibility of using ETTL or Manual flash modes but with more redundency and without the IR limitations of "line-of-site", "distance" and "bright sunlight" then the Radio Popper PX system is the way to go. When used in conjunction with the Radio Popper JRX system, whether using the RP Cubes with TTL/ETTL Speedlites/Speedlights or using the RP JRX "Studio" receivers with PCB strobes, the Radio Popper system offers the most fexibilty and creative options all the while having complete control of flash outputs from the camera. When using the Radio Popper systems in conjuction with each other you can mix ETTL wireless operations using the PX system with manual flash operations using the JRX system. If you have PCB strobes such as White Lightnings, Alien Bees or Zeus you can control flash output from the PX or JRX transmitters of those strobes in three seperate groups and you can "Hyper Sync" those strobes up to 1/8000 shutter speeds. Using the RP Cubes you can mix Canon Speedlites with Nikon Speedlights and control their respective flash outputs from the PX or JRX transmitters. </p>

<p>The first few batches of the PXs had issues with draining batteries but Radio Popper has replaced those units and the newer units do not have these issues. The original first batches of the RP cubes also had some issues but they also replaced those faulty units and the newer ones work really well. </p>

<p>I bought into PocketWizards for Nikon, thinking I would benefit from their i-TTL support. Yes, they're very reliable. However, I'm not sure that was the right decision, since I've found that I never fire my strobes in i-TTL mode. I guess having remote manual power control is cool, but I always just end up dialing power up/down on the strobe itself, or moving the light backward or forward a few feet. So, an ultra-reliable, dumb RF trigger would service me just as well. Can anyone suggest the most-reliable dumb RF triggers on the market?</p>

<p>By the way, Nikon's IR-based, SU-800 commander, while excellent indoors, is virtually useless outdoors due to high-ambient light, and especially, humidity.</p>

<p>That would be Cybersyncs.</p>

<p>As Nadine says, Cybersyncs, and the Pocket Wizard Plus II's which have been the industry standard for too long. I'd choose Cybersyncs but there are a few other choices as well.</p>

<p>Hello again. I've done some more pondering here and I'm unsure as to my next move. I've found the following considerations:</p>

<p>1. Initially I veered towards the RP but then the idea of having to put on a 580 on the camera as commander and with a RP controller on the top to boot isn't an attractive one. I could just use my STE2 but then would be stuck with ETTL. (I know I wanted the option of ETTL but if I had to choose just one mode it would have to be manual)</p>

<p>2. I read a lot of worrying stuff about PW Flex "frying" Canon flashes. Even though it isn't an everyday occurrence this doesn't seem to be only a couple of isolated cases either. It would seem the PW boosts the power of the flash and it can't handle it! Not reassuring at all.</p>

<p>3. PW Plus 2 gear might be the answer. I am assuming this doesn't attempt to boost the flaw power in any way? I'd be stuck with 1/125 to sync my 5Dmk2 which isn't great outdoors. I'm guessing it might not be a huge problem mind you.</p>

<p>So am I right in my assumptions re the PW Plus 2 and would experienced outdoor flash people say the low sync speed limit might be an issue/</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p>William</p>

 

<p>William,</p>

<p>You are correct, the PW Plus II's are just dumb triggers, they do not change the way the flash operates in any way, unlike the TTL units.</p>

<p>But PW Plus II's are not the only option for dumb radio triggers, the design is old and frequency they use is not the best nowadays. Also many wireless triggers now come with hotshoes, this means if your flashes don't have sync ports, only one of yours does, then you don't need additional cables, cubes, modifications etc to get them to work.</p>

<p>Whilst the industry standard for dumb wireless triggers has been PW Plus II's for years, there is no doubt that more modern trigger sets offer significant advantages.</p>

<p>Thanks Scott.<br>

I take your point re the pocket wizards, especially since one of my flashes is the 580EX and another a 580EX II The Cybersincs seem like a very popular set but their not widely available here in the UK. I will look into them but I know they will be way more expensive over here and might not represent such value as in the US.<br>

The thing that is still bugging me a little about the dumb trigger is that I can't use high speed synch with them. I've never been a big flash user outside and the only time I've really used it is for fill flash in very bright conditions. In these cases I've just about always used HSS. I wouldn't be able to do that with such triggers. </p>

<p>William</p>

<p>William,</p>

<p>Why not test the water to see how you get on with cheap dumb triggers? I got a set of Yongnuo RF-602's off eBay from Hong Kong, they ship worldwide, they are great value and will show you if that is the direction you want to go, or if you really do need HSS, they have hotshoes too so all your flashes will work without cables or modifications. They did have silly annoying things but most of those were sorted out when the RF-603's came out. They are a great introduction to wireless, you might never grow out of them.</p>

<p>I use the max sync of 1/200th with my 5Ds and Cybersyncs. Outside in bright light, HSS isn't going to help a great deal unless you can put the flash really close to your subjects. I wonder if you have noticed this before? When I shoot weddings, I'd love to have a faster shutter speed to help stop motion (faster than 1/200th anyway, which isn't all that fast) and a flash powerful enough to fill at distances of 8 or 10 feet and more. However, HSS isn't going to work at those distances. So--back to square one. If you're shooting portraits, though, you can put the flash closer to your subjects.</p>

<p>What is this 1/125th sync limitation with your 5DmII that you speak of? Neither the Pocket Wizard Plus IIs or Radio Poppers have this limitation. There is only one sync limitation with the Radio Poppers and that is when using a JRX transmitter to trigger a PX receiver (not something that a lot of people are doing) and there you are limited to 1/160th with any camera you are using no matter what the max sync speed for the camera is unless the cameras max sync speed is less than 1/160th in which case the cameras max sync speed is the limit. There seems to be a lot of misinformation as well as misunderstandings of the different systems as to how they operate and what they have to offer. Usually a sync issue is not in the system itself but shows up by process of user error or in the use of additional accessories such as using cheap hotshoes for flashes not equiped with sync ports.</p>

<p>I have been using the Pocket Wizard Plus or Plus IIs for around 8 years because back then they were the only radio triggers that would not make Canon Speedlites go nuts. All the other triggers back then drove the Canon flashes crazy. Today alot of the Radio triggers offered have solved these issues and will work with the Canon Speedlites. Probably the best and cheapest of the dumb triggers on market right now are the Cactus V5's which sell for $60 for 2 transceivers at Gadget Infinity. <a href="http://www.gadgetinfinity.com/product.php?productid=17567&cat=0&page=1">http://www.gadgetinfinity.com/product.php?productid=17567&cat=0&page=1</a></p>

<p>I do not know why people find it is such a big deal to attach a small transmitter to the top of a Master flash or ST-E2 especially when you consider how redundant your wireless system becomes as well as all the creative options you now have available to you. You need a Master flash or ST-E2 to use the wireless system anyway so attaching a small device with velcro, elastic straps or by some other means is really not an issue.</p>

<p>I still feel the best Radio triggers, when using Speedlites or when mixing Speedlites with Strobes, is the Radio Poppers. What they have to offer in redundancy and creativity goes way and beyond any other Radio triggering systems offered today and that includes the Pocket Wizards either the Plus II's or the ETTL Flex and Minis. Yes the PX system is expensive but the JRX system is moderately priced. Yes you do have to attach the PX transmitter to the Master flash or ST-E2 (not that big of a deal really, get over it) BUT: With the PX system you do retain full functionality of the Canon wireless system and all the features offered such as "High Speed" sync. You also have so so so many creative lighting options when combinig the PX system with the JRX system creating a Super Creative Lighting System. </p>

<p>I also do not know why people think the ST-E2 is limited to only ETTL operations. You can trigger Slave flashes in the manual mode by holding their mode button for a few seconds which places the flash in Manual or Multi modes and is then triggered by a Master flash or ST-E2. If you are using the Radio Popper system with a PX transmitter and RP Cubes with JRX Studio receivers you can then control 3 groups of Speedlites/Speedlights and their flash outputs in 32 levels of adjustment from the PX transmitter. I have the Yongnuo ST-E2 and with the 7D, using its flash menu, you can also control the C group of Slave flashes.</p>

<p>Good luck and I hope you get it all sorted out!</p>

I get a 100% clear frame at 1/200, a very slight shadow at 1/250 even with cheap radio triggers. The very

bottom of this frame shows the extent of shadow at 1/250, obviously very usable and easy to crop out if

necessary.

 

 

 

That is with a 1Ds MkIII, the 5D MkII is a touch slower, so 1/200 is very usable, Nadine says so too. I

have used 1/320 and shot to crop before, its not like the 21mp don't give you wiggle room.

<p>Hi</p>

<p>Thanks to all for the replies.</p>

<p>Nadine. Good point. I have only really used flash outdoors so far for taking pictures of people in the very bright sunshine. Always on camera. These have always been close up and using HSS. I realise this isn't going to be helpful if I put the flash a bit further and maybe using the flash off camera the lack of HSS wouldn't be an issue. Not having done it before I'm not sure.<br>

RSmith. The JRX isn't available here in europe I'm afraid. I wish it was but there you go. I wasn't aware I could use the STE2 to trigger Radio Poppers to work manual flash. I'm certainly interested in that option.Thanks for the information which is new to me.<br>

Scott. I was roughly working out the possible sync speed as 1/200s is the fastest advertised by Canon for my camera. This is for a speedlite on the camera and I assumed, given my experience with studio lights which is a bit slower and allowing for any delay caused by the wireless system that 1/125s might be reasonable. Maybe I'm wrong and if so I'm glad. It was just a figure plucked out of the ether so to speak but certainly doubtful if I could get more than 1/200s via wireless. Was wondering if something in that ball park would be reasonable really.</p>

<p>Well thanks folks this is very helpful and I'm very grateful to you all for your help</p>

<p>William</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Hey Scott--I wasn't saying that 1/200th wasn't possible, just that I wish I could use the full power of the flash with faster shutter speeds. When photographing processionals in bright sun, for instance, sometimes, when the subject is moving fast, I still get a bit of blur.</p>

<p>No, no Nadine, I didn't think I had implied you had, I meant you were using it at 1/200. I only mentioned you because you are using a 5D MkII, whereas I am not. My max native sync is listed at 1/250, but I get a very slight shadow, I know the 5D MkII is rated at 1/200 and it seems to be a bit inconsistent, some users get that cleanly, but some have to go down to 1/160 to get a 100% clean image, though as I said, any shadow at those sync speeds (1/250 for 1Ds MkIII and 1/200 for 5D MkII) is very easily cropped out.</p>

<p>You are right about power too, 1/320, or one third of a stop difference over 1/250, needs HSS but I lose at least two stops of light. One of the main reasons I buy secondhand 550EX's is they work out quite cheap to gang. I often put three 550EX's into a softbox and fire them in HSS via a 50ft ETTL cord I made.</p>

<p>William</p>

<p><em><strong>"RSmith. The JRX isn't available here in europe I'm afraid. I wish it was but there you go. I wasn't aware I could use the STE2 to trigger Radio Poppers to work manual flash. I'm certainly interested in that option.Thanks for the information which is new to me."</strong></em></p>

<p>I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I will try to explain better.</p>

<p>You do not need the Radio Poppers to use the ST-E2 to trigger the Slaves in manual mode. This is an option already available to you. The ST-E2 will trigger "Slave" flashes that have overridden the ETTL mode by holding the "Mode" button for a few seconds which places the Slave in Manual mode. You cannot control the manual flash output of those "Slave" flashes from the ST-E2 but the ST-E2 will trigger them. All changes to their flash output has to been done at each individual "Slave" flash. They actually become rogue flashes and are not part of a flash group.</p>

<p>The Radio Popper PX's do not change the way the Canon Wireless system works they just make it work better by providing communication between the Master and Slaves via radio transmission rather than IR. Using just the PX system alone only allows you to do what you can do with Canons wireless system as it is which is only fire the Manual Slaves not change their flash output. You need to use the PX system with the JRX system to accomplish this. </p>

<p>If you want to use the ST-E2 to not only fire slave flashes but to also control their manual flash outputs then you will need a combination of the a PX transmitter (attached to the ST-E2) and RP Cubes attached to the "Off Camera" flashes and JRX "Studio" receivers attached to the RP Cubes. NOTE: (Although these flashes may be considered "slaves" they are not set to the "Slave" configuration but rather to the normal configuration and ETTL mode when used in this way....see Radio Popper instructions for this type of operation). This setup using the PX transmitter in conjunction with the JRX receivers and cubes allows you to not only trigger but also set the flash value of those flashes in 32 levels of output.</p>

<p>If you do not have the JRX system available in Europe then you are pretty much out of luck of really tapping the full power of the Radio Popper system and taking full advantage of all the creative possibilities it provides.</p>

<p>In addition to my previous post.</p>

<p>Not having the availability of the JRX system may limit you to all the creative possibilities offered through a complete Radio Popper system but if you are currently only using EX Speedlites then the PX system alone will make your experience with Canons Wireless system a true blessing. Like I said earlier the PX system does not alter the way the Canon Wireless system works it just makes the system more redundant through radio transmission and removes the IR limitations of "Line of sight", "distance" and "operation in bright sunlight". The Canon wireless system is a very well thought out and workable system it just suffers from reliability under certain conditions. The PX system changes that.</p>

<p>If you currently are using the Canon Wireless system and just wish to make it more redundant then the RP PX's will do this for you. If you want or need all the functionality of what the Canon Wireless system provides then the RP PX system is the way to go IMO. If all you need or are willing to live with is basic radio triggering then something like the Cactus V5s will do the trick and the expensive Pocket Wizard Plus IIs are really not needed.</p>

<p> </p>