Proposed forum reorganization

Discussion in ' Site Help' started by philg, Sep 13, 2006.

  1. I would appreciate comments on

    a proposal to reorganize the forums within (you may have noticed that
    I've already deactivated a few, such as "video", that were not being used).


  2. Philip , would classic cameras be "under everything else"?
  3. Sorry to see video go Philip. I think it would have been used more ....if people looked? Maybe build a tour/intro video to on the home page. Just a thought. Members could send a link out to friends and other photographers.
  4. Michael: Classic Cameras would not be touched (except that it would be augmented with the threads from Brownie).
  5. I think the B&W Digital forum idea is intriguing. Yahoo's DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint forum averages around 1,000 posts a month, and I think's thread archiving is superior to yahoo's, which would make it more valuable to users. (OTOH, given the rapid change in printer technology most of these discussions have a relatively short shelf-life.)
  6. There actually was (or still is) a forum for film point and shoot but I think it went dormant. What about film cameras made AFTER 1970?
  7. What about a Photoshop forum, isnt it the other half of the digital process, I think it needs it own space for folks to see how other people use the program.
  8. Just a silly nitpic: why not change your proposed "Digital Cameras" (1841) -> "Digital Cameras, Including Point and Shoot and Shopping" to read "Including Point & Shoot and Shopping" (changing the first and into an ampersand)?
  9. rowlett

    rowlett Moderator

    Leica and Rangefinders - including medium format rangefinders?
  10. B/RR - see the "digital darkroom" forum for PS discussion.
  11. sorry - B/RP. quick fingers not always good thing ;))
  12. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    Completely agree with Z.

    You're missing the boat without a Digital Art forum too. Look through your galleries. How many straight jpg captures do you see? The current Digital Darkroom is almost all tech questions. There should be a digital resutls and process forum. It could all be under "learn" as well. It's amazing how many people have photoshop yet can't do a simple masking layer.
  13. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    Tony Rowlett > "Leica and Rangefinders - including medium format rangefinders?"

    I hope so Tony, but aren't medium format rangefinders...a rangefinder?
  14. trw


    How about something like this for the film/digital/printing etc:
    • B&W exposure (for discusions of contrast filters etc, whether done at exposure time or in digital post-processing)
    • Film and Processing (An amalgamation of the Film & Processing and B&W film forum)
    • Digital Darkroom->filmscanning (no change)
    • Opto-Chemical Printing (B&W printing and RA-4, etc)
    • Digital Printing
    • Alternative Processes (all that crazy stuff like contact cyanotypes of digital negatives)
    • Print Finishing and Display (Mating and framing, Albums, etc)
  15. and more: as time rushes by, we now have OLD digital cameras as well.
  16. Personally, I just scan down the Unified Forum, and it doesn't make me any difference how (or if) the forums are divided up. I guess it matters to the moderators or to people that only look at one specific forum.
  17. stp


    Another vote for a "photoshop / digital art" forum.
  18. rowlett

    rowlett Moderator

    Eric yah but there's still the medium format forum, so there may be some confusion as to which forum to post to.
  19. Jin and I are done (at least we think we are). Please let us know (here) if you have any problems. We've made a new index page as well: with new explanations of what the forums are supposed to be about. Each forum will get a new policy as it gets a dedicated moderator.
  20. Hello Philip,<BR>
    I am so very glad you have taken over, your genius is at work already, really!<BR>
    Phil, I have had a big problem here with PN which is costing me and have been trying to resolve it patiently for the last 12 months. I have sent dozens of emails to the administrators with no reply. I have even been to Carlile, MA twice and I was promised that it would be taken care of but I guess other commitments have taken priority and my problem have never been resolved.<BR>
    Both of us will agree that this will not be a good place to discus this so I ask you to please let me know how I can get in touch with you personally to explain it to you in an email. This will save me a trip to MIT, Harvard square or Lincoln and I live in Boston area.
    I want you and ONLY you to address this and when you read what I have to say, you'll agree that this will NOT be a waste of time for you as I know you must be extremely busy.<BR>
    If you don't know your way around this site, let me tell you that you can obtain my email address and once you do, I'll have my contact address :)<BR>
    I thank you in advance.
  21. r s

    r s

    My $0.02:
    # Alternative Cameras: Looking at the last 30-40 posts it seems like almost all posts could be covered under 'Classic Cameras'.
    # B&W Photo - Film & Processing: Combine into "B&W Film" with categories for 'Film', 'Processing', 'Printing & Finishing'
    # B&W Photo - Printing & Finishing: See above.
    # Leica and Rangefinders: I personally don't like the re-naming. It makes no sense to me to keep separate EOS, FD, Pentax, Olympus, Minok and Nikon categories and then go and merge 'Leica and Rangefinders (which is a weird title by the way as Leica IS a rangefinder camera). I would recommend keeping it as the Leica forum and potentially create a new forum for rangefinder cameras.
  22. Are you certain that outright insulting one of the most active forums on PNet is a good indication to your commercial sponsors that you are the correct person to build a community?

    Especially considering they are a demographic with sligthly better than average buying power?
  23. feisty bunch of guys wondering why a $5000 camera won't automatically take a great photo.
    That totally misrepresents the spirit of the Leica forum! It would be much more accurate to describe it as "feisty bunch of guys insisting their photos are great because they were taken with a $3000 camera." Geez, don't you people even read the forum . . .
  24. "Everything Else" should probably be "All other gear", as there are non-gear photo subjects
    which don't have their own forums. And may we please have categories for OM and 4/3 in
    the Olympus forum, in case one day you do split them?
  25. Rich, I expect the reason it's been branded Leica & Rangefinders is due to the Leica R. Feisty seems reasonable, but the other part seems a bit tactless.

    I can't understand why minox, Canon FD, and classic cameras haven't just been folded in to alternative cameras with sub categories

    Or even fold Canon FD into Canon EOS and just call it Canon SLR.

    To be honest there seems a lot of duplication of effort in the forums.
  26. david_henderson


    The biggest challenge in forum configuration is how to secure that all the questions pertinent to technique and generalised equipment (eg filters etc) are in the same place rather than scattered through a series of camera-brand-headed forums. This would improve the quality of answers and therefore the longer term value of the site.

    The changes proposed at this point are "tidying up", but they don't address any large issues. I'd certainly agree that fewer forums is better than more.

    That said I do agree with others that there is sufficient difference between the equipment and processes involved in digital colour and b&w to make "Digital B&W " a valid forum.
  27. I don't care for that official description either. And I would rather leave the name of the Leica Forum alone. We talk about MF rangefinders as it is, both on the Leica Forum and on the MF forum. We talk about Canon and Nikon and Mamiya on the Leica Forum. They talk about Leicas on the MF forum. Well, sometimes. The new name calls too much attention to the rangefinder aspect. We talk about Leica R, too.

    "Guys?" We have gals on the Leica Forum, too.

    How about, "The Leica Forum: intense, passionate exchange of information and opinion among those who love (or in some cases hate) Leica rangefinder and SLR cameras. Not for the faint-hearted"
  28. I think the proposal looks good. Might I add my 2 cents? What about having a forum named "forum category questions/answers/discussions". Then subcategories that match the categories in the TRP.
    Street Photography
    This way, people who have similar interests could share their experiences, ask questions & share answers.

    Just my 2 cents. This could be expanded into other categories that include "photographer locations" like:
    USA (sub-categorized into states)
    England (sub-categorized)
    You get my drift. As it is now, because locations are not always used, the viewer sometimes has no idea where the photographer is located or locating another photographer in your area is strictly by accident.

    I feel this might create camaraderie, something PN could benefit from. Hopefully, not leading to mate rating, but a sense of inclusion and improve helping & a sense of belonging to a larger group.

    Again, just my 2 cents. Thanks for listening :) I love PN!
  29. I second Jayme. It seems sensible to have the photo categories reflected in identical
    forums. Keeps IT simple.
  30. My only current proposals are about the critique forum to be in two
    categories. Manipulated and unmanipulated photos under the guidelines
    of the today's "Manipulated" photos, thus having two categories of "photographers". The photoshopographers, and the photographers.

    The second and last is if there is to be a continual of the current rating system, is to have a name and a reason for every number given.

    Thank you for your time :)
  31. mg


    1)"People Photography" (1550) -> "Portraits and Fashion"
    As I see it, "people photography" includes A LOT more than just portraits and fashion... For example, it includes some street photography, some wedding photography, etc. So IF you already have each of these "other things" in another forum, it's all ok. Otherwise, some things are going to go missing somehow.

    As a side-note, has a pretty long and good list of photo categories that you can use both as an example of categories which we could use here in the gallery, and as a list that should probably - well, ideally, at least - be somehow covered by all the fora combined. Regards.

    2) I somehow agree that there should be a Photoshop forum, although it should probably not be named that way, since PS isn't the only software available. So why not, for once, use the proper name for what we mean to be in such a forum ? Which I think would be "Digital imaging".
  32. I've been promoting category forums for some time now, with a different "moderator" for each one. I suspect that setting them up as an integral part of the relevant gallery sorts will be a bigger job than what's currently under discussion because it would require a different sort of interface, But I hope the idea will be considered at some point.
  33. feisty bunch of guys wondering why a $5000 camera won't automatically take a great photo ... >>
    You mean that's ... not ... true ?
    Now they tell me !
    Actually, Mike D's comment is more nearly accurate.
    Over at the Leica Forum, everyone's anxiously awaiting the release of the $5000 slated for this Fall. There have even been rumored sightings. :)
  34. On Classic Cameras, I'd skip the 1970 date and define it based on the characteristics of the cameras involved. I'd have a "Mechanical Film Cameras" forum (and, at some point, everyone with no longer supported electronic film cameras should have their own Classic Camera forum, though that one won't last since the cameras are made for a 10 year life, not the kind of tanks we got in mechanical cameras).
  35. I can see you are "done" - but for future - if things don't work out - I think it would be great to have moderators for each "main" catagory that includes "sub" catagories (in italics below). However there may be a few sub catagories - like FD or Wedding which have their own moderators but the moderator for all the subs can step in when needed.
    The "Main" headings would be on the Main PN page and there are 12 only. As you pick your main interest - you then see the sub catagories. Things can be added or merged later as needed.
    Just a suggestion.
    All Things Film
    ..... Black and White and Color
    ..... Print and Processing
    ..... Film Cameras and equipment

    All Things Digital
    ..... Cameras and equipment
    ..... Digital Darkroom (or Imaging)

    Cameras ..... Alternative Cameras
    ..... Classic Cameras (pre-1970)
    ..... Sony/Minolta SLR System
    ..... Pentax
    ..... Olympus
    ..... Nikon
    ..... Canon FD
    ..... Canon EOS
    ..... Large Format
    ..... Minox
    ..... Leica and Rangefinders
    ..... Medium Format Digest ..... Point and Shoot
    Commercial ..... Fashion
    ..... Still
    ..... Stock
    ..... Architecture
    ..... Sports, Concerts, Corprate etc.
    ..... Wedding and Social

    ..... News
    ..... Philosophy
    ..... Site Help and Feedback
    ..... Photo Net Announcements
    ..... Casual Discussion
    ..... Philosophy

    Marketing and Business
    ..... General Business
    ..... Sales and marketing
    ..... Web Design and the Internet

    ..... Wildlife
    ..... Landscapes
    ..... flower

    No Words
    ..... Portrait
    ..... Photojournalism
    ..... Nudes

    Image Basics and Education
    ..... Lighting Equipment and Techniques
    ..... Composition
    ..... General

    ..... Shopping
    ..... Accessories
  36. The everything else catagory would be better as camera accessories. But lets be honest most people will often ask questions in the forum where they spend the most time and are familar with other posters. A Nikon user may well ask about tripods or filters on the Nikon forum. A wedding photographer will ask about post processing often in the wedding forum because they want the experience of other wedding photographers. Remember that many don't read this forum so they will not know of the changes until they have happened and my be suprised and may start to complain after you have put in much work.
  37. Sorry, blunt feedback: It looks like a fresh coat of paint and little else.

    Why not have threads that are actually ///active/// stay at the top of the page, with the date, last poster, and number of posts included in the thread information title?

    As it is, any thread that is active and interesting gets buried under questions such as "which tripod?", "which digital camera under 50 bucks?".

    Finding intersting, humorous, informative threads can be a challenge when you have to wade through the last 175 posts organized chronologicly regarding which bag, which tripod, which whatever.

    Organize the posts according to the last post date/time. Not the orginal post.

    Thanks for asking and good luck.
  38. </i>Use the "New Answers" feature to sort contributions chronologically.
  39. </em>

    I think Philip already intimated elsewhere that the forum interface/workings will be getting a complete overhaul - the work that's been carried out here seems to just be a reorganisation of the database - or more specifically how posts and threads are related within the database.
  40. Philip:

    Have you considered a "35mm Photography Forum"? There is a medium format forum and a large format forum but nothing devoted to those of us who shoot primarily 35mm film. Thanks...
  41. zml


    Perhaps for clarity the new organization should follow a convention, for instance: Film & processing (color); Film & processing (black&white); Equipment - cameras - classic (pre 1970);Equipment - cameras - Nikon; Equipment - cameras - Canon EOS; Equipment - cameras - all other;Equipment - lights and flashes; Photography - fashion; Photography - landscape; Photography - 35 mm; Other - business of photography; etc.

    Following a naming convention and grouping the forums alphabetically is a good thing considering the number of forums available on
  42. I don't think there's any perfect way to segment photography into distinctly separate areas, any more than there's a perfect way to segment a university. That's why universities are filled with departments, standing committees, ad hoc committees, interdisciplinary programs, etc. Some are organized around a topic, some around a technique and some just grew organically. Periodically, the whole scheme is overhauled. It isn't perfectly neat but it gets the job done.

    In a virtual community like, why limit an original post to being listed in one forum? Of course, there should only be one thread resulting from the original post, but why not give an original poster the ability to have his post listed in all relevant forums, just as a faculty member might be affiliated with more than one academic unit?

    For example, sometimes I am not sure whether my post belongs in the Leica forum or the B&W Film forum. Why not let me, as the original poster, designate that my post should be listed in both? Unlike the unified view of all forums, in which forum posts are lost in a sea of image posts, my approach would enhance the chance that participants with something relevant to say would chime in.

    This approach would, I believe, help photo.netters find the posts of greatest interest to them with the minimum number of clicks, while minimizing the amount of clutter they would have to wade through.

    Of course, if you were trying to increase the number of clicks, in the hope of increasing the number of ads viewed (which seems to be the policy of AOL, for example), then this would be a horrible suggestion. ;-)
  43. Philip, your reorganization chart seems logical to me. I like the addition of the "Accessories." Not sure what it was in the past, but it was rather difficult to search successfully on a consistent basis of tripods, heads, bags, etc. currently.
  44. og


    - Rename 'Canon EOS' to 'Canon SLR' (same for others) and move 'Canon FD' as a subcategory of 'Canon SLR'
    - Rename 'Digital Cameras...' to 'Point & Shoot and other cameras'
    - Move 'Alternative cameras' into 'Point & Shoot...'
    - Move 'Minox' into 'Point & Shoot...' (and just trash Minox subcategories)
  45. =================================================================

    Olivier GALLEN Patron, sep 24, 2006; 07:42 p.m.

    - Rename 'Canon EOS' to 'Canon SLR' (same for others) and move 'Canon
    FD' as a subcategory of 'Canon SLR'

    - Rename 'Digital Cameras...' to 'Point & Shoot and other cameras'

    - Move 'Alternative cameras' into 'Point & Shoot...'


    A CANON EOS 350D (digital) is an alternative point & shoot camera ? :)
  46. og


    "A CANON EOS 350D (digital) is an alternative point & shoot camera ? :)"
    Errr... why not. Up to you... :)
    Currently, Canon Digital SLR threads are spread between 'Digital' and 'Canon EOS' depending on... chance! And I don't think 'Digital vs Film' is a good basis for separating cameras.
    My suggestion is:
    - Lighting Equipment and Techniques
    - Canon SLR
    - Nikon SLR
    - Sony/Minolta SLR
    - Pentax SLR
    - Olympus SLR
    - Point & Shoot
    - Leica and Rangefinder
    - Medium Format
    - Large Format
    - Classic Cameras (pre-1970)
    - Everything Else

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