Proper fixing times

I've found a number of questions on various photo forums lately regarding a pink or cyan stain on negs remaining after developing/processing. Most answers relate the problem due to inadequate fixing or exhausted fixer.

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Most published advice regarding adequate fixing times in some way or another say to fix 'twice as long as it takes for the film to clear'. My question is, what exactly am I looking for? The most concise explanation I could find is Kodak's recommendation to fix twice as long as it takes until the film loses it's 'milky' appearance. I also remember reading somewhere that the proper way to determine fixing time is to put a sheet of undeveloped, unexposed film in the fixer and note the time it takes for the film to lose it's 'milky' appearance and fix for twice that time. I guess 'milky' is, at least for me, a somewhat vague description. After about 35 seconds in Ilford's rapid fixer (1:4) with the test mentioned above my film (Tri-X ) does become 'clear' though with a definite pinkish cast. Does this mean that 70 seconds is the proper fixing time with this film/fixer combination? My usual practice has been to fix in Ilford's rapid fixer for 5 minutes then rinse in running water 2 minutes before moving to a HCA wash.

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Regarding the pinkish cast, my understanding is that this is related to the anti-halation dye and not necessarily an indication of proper fixing times. I always find a pink color remaining within my pre-soak water and it usually is not eliminated from the film entirely during fixing. It is almost always completely gone after the two minute water rinse.

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Could somebody please elaborate on proper fixing times for me?

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While I've got my two minutes with the microphone, I'd like to give a hearty thanks to all of those who regularly contribute their expertise to the large format forum. Without question, this is the best photo resource on the internet. Not only is the advice always on the mark, it always seems to be offered in a genuine spirit to help fellow photographers - a far cry from the often petty personal attacks found on other forums, even photo.net.

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Thanks again!

That milky effect is more easily seen when looking at the emulsion side

of of a sheet that is in the fix. The pink cast is indeed left over

anti-halation dye, most of which does seem to dissolve out when the

film is pre-soaked in water. T-max 400 will actually leave a purple

Kool-aid looking solution when pre-soaked. When the fixer becomes

weakened, it's less effective in eliminating the last of the dye. I

can usually detect this tendency soon enough so that the few minutes

that my sheets remain in a holding tray of water are enough to rid them

of the last of the dye. I then make up new fixer for the next batch of

films. In cases where I have discovered the pink tinge after

processing, I have prepared a solution of Sodium Sulfite and soaked the

negatives first in water and then in the SS solution for a few minutes,

re-washed and dried.

Oops, I meant to say the milky effect is better seen from the backing

side rather than the emulsion side.

For some years I have used film strength rapid fix for two minutes

with continuous agitation for all films. When T-Max came out, Kodak

recommended increasing the fixing time to help eliminate the red dye

in the emulsion. I use 3 minutes for T-Max. I never use fix much

beyond half the recommended capacity. Kodak states that one quart or

liter of their rapid fix at 1:3 will fix 32 8x10 inch negatives--I

generally mix 2 liters at a time and use it for 40 8x10's. Since I

occasionally stray into roll film, I count one roll of 120 or one

roll of 135 as one 8x10 inch sheet. Kodak states that T-Max depletes

fixer faster than other films--I count two 8x10 sheets of T-Max as

three. I put a piece of black photographer's tape on the bottle of

fix and make a mark in white grease pencil for every sheet or roll I

fix.

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I have found that three minutes, with agitation, in PermaWash

eliminates the red dye in T-Max completely. I use 10ml of PermaWash

in 500ml of water. It also reduces the wash time.

Just a brief comment. I can only speak for the T-Max films because

that is what I have experience using. Recently I demonstrated for

some students that this talk of fixing to get rid of the pink or

purple is not easily possible particularly with T-Max 100. I left a

sheet of T-Max 100 in a tray of new rapid fix for over an hour and

the pink cast was still there. Then we placed a sheet of processed

film in a large tray of water for 10 minutes and the water turned

bright pink. I think this basically shows that adequate wash times

are imortant to correcting this problem. I am not discounting the

need for proper fixing but I know photographers that only give a few

minutes of wash and call it good, this is just not enough.

Andy: In my experience, this is one of the less time-critical steps

in B & W processing. For Tri-X, using Kodak rapid fixer, I find the

film clears quite quickly, often within a minute. Another minute or

two and the pink/purple tint goes almost entirely away, then I wash

it. 10 minutes of washing will remove the pink color. I normally

don't bother with Permawash, etc. on Tri-X. You don't have the "hypo

binding to the paper fiber problem" with film. Is this archival? I

have strips of tri-x 35 mm which I exposed and processed in high

school (Class of 1973) which are stuffed in a grocery bag in my

Southern California attic. Temperatures are often in the 100+ degree

range (F, of course) and other than being really dusty, they are

fine. Many got less than 10 minutes of water wash and they still

look fine. TMAX is different. Even in fresh Rapid Fix it takes

longer to fix, an extra 5 minutes or so will almost get the pink

out. You're going to have a hard time overfixing film. TMAX does

seem to wear out fixer more quickly. A lack of agitation combined

with somewhat depleted fix will leave more pink. If a 10 minute wash

still leaves some pink (usually this is not the case) I put them in

Permawash and at least in my experience the pink then goes away like

magic. A few minutes more wash and you're ready to dry them.

Hi,

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I've been using FP4+ sheet film with Ilford Hypam (1:4) and the

Ilford instruction says to fix film for 4 min if a hardener is used.

I did an unexposed film test in the fixer and it clears within 45

sec. To fix twice the clearing time at 1 1/2 min is in my opinion too

short. Steve Anchell's recommendation is to fix thrice the clearing

time. That seems also a little short too, I think.

It seems like there is no one proper fixing time that people can

agree on. So, I've been following the manufacturer's 4 min. fixing.

Would that have been over-fixing? If so, do I expect to have damaged

negs in the long term?

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Many Thanks,

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Aaron