processing 1944 fuji nitrate film

i recently got 5 rolls of fuji film from 1944~ from a family member, i discovered that this film was nitrate based as it burned when i cut and burned a small piece. accepting that i wondered how would i go about processing this? i couldnt really find any information on fuji 35mm film from this age.

so i figured i might try my luck and ask here. how should i go about processing this?, i dont really know what figures id use as even a starting point with this film given the lack of information i can find on it and all

oh and please before it is mentioned i am aware of the issues with nitrate film and how it deteriorates. i pulled one of the unshoot rolls out of the container and as best i could tell it was not brittle, nor was it discolored and deforming so i think this is OK to process. also i do know that there is a good chance i will get nothing off undeveloped film this old, but i still want to try

im sorry if this is the wrong section, im new to this form

There was someone who use to post a lot of "found films" here, and as I recall he used HC110 exclusively.

My inclination would be HC110 B for around 6 minutes(20ºC), although you may want to go more dilute with an equivalent time to that. I consider that a "get an image on anything even if not optimum" time/dilution. You can then adjust based on your first roll. You might even clip your first roll into a couple of shorter ones and vary the development time to see where things are optimum.

Just be forewarned that film this old is going to be difficult to handle as the amount of curl will be viscious. Also, you're going to have a lot of base fog, and it may be worthwhile to research adding an anti-fogging agent. I've never used one, so can't offer specific advice.

Also, in addition to keeping your temperatures low, it's especially important to keep your temperatures consistent throughout the entire process. Modern films give us a lot of allowance in this-I've TRIED to get Tri-X to reticulate before, and could do it with water from my tap. Back when Efke was still available, it was a reminder of just how sensitive films use to be and it would reticulate with a 10-15ºC sudden temperature change. I'd want to avoid any abrupt temperature changes at all with a film this old.

There was someone who use to post a lot of "found films" here, and as I recall he used HC110 exclusively.

 

My inclination would be HC110 B for around 6 minutes(20ºC), although you may want to go more dilute with an equivalent time to that. I consider that a "get an image on anything even if not optimum" time/dilution. You can then adjust based on your first roll. You might even clip your first roll into a couple of shorter ones and vary the development time to see where things are optimum.

 

Just be forewarned that film this old is going to be difficult to handle as the amount of curl will be viscious. Also, you're going to have a lot of base fog, and it may be worthwhile to research adding an anti-fogging agent. I've never used one, so can't offer specific advice.

 

Also, in addition to keeping your temperatures low, it's especially important to keep your temperatures consistent throughout the entire process. Modern films give us a lot of allowance in this-I've TRIED to get Tri-X to reticulate before, and could do it with water from my tap. Back when Efke was still available, it was a reminder of just how sensitive films use to be and it would reticulate with a 10-15ºC sudden temperature change. I'd want to avoid any abrupt temperature changes at all with a film this old.

hm, ok yea ive read a lot on how HC110 is good for expired stuff. ive never used it yet myself so it will be a adventure.

and yea i dont expect to get much out of it mostly owing the age of it all, the anti fogging agent you mentioned is interesting ive never heard of that ill have to try to look into that

truth be told im not even sure the film isnt already ruined. the reel i pulled out was pinkish in color so im not even sure it isnt already ruined by something. suppose ill have to develop it and see what i get

Acetate based film also burns, just not as explosively as cellulose nitrate.

In any case, the base is irrelevant WRT processing. No film is going to catch fire when submerged in aqueous processing solutions.

"the reel i pulled out was pinkish in color.."

- That's normal. What you're seeing is the anti-halation backing that'll wash off and bleach during development.

Wow...this is a question we do not see everyday.? :)

If this is too far off topic or polluting, just let me know and i will start a separate post.......that Cine-Still Film, how do those guys remove the "Rem-Jet" without ruining the film.?

Thank You

that Cine-Still Film, how do those guys remove the "Rem-Jet" without ruining the film.?

Anyone processing Kodachrome has to deal with it also(folks do it at home, and my local lab does it by hand as a B&W film). In any case, it is readily removed by an alkaline solution.

I've never tried but suspect most developers would probably do it-I just wouldn't want to take the chance of having chunks of it floating around in mt developing solution.

A lot of folks recommend sodium bicarb(baking soda). That should work, but I think automated processors for cine film and Kodachrome use a sodium carbonate solution(washing soda). That should work a lot more efficiently. Sodium carbonate is used to raise the pH in many developers also.

In any case, to be absolutely sure I'd probably use a sodium carbonate solution with vigorous shaking for a minute or two, and go through 2-3 changes.

Acetate based film also burns, just not as explosively as cellulose nitrate.

 

In any case, the base is irrelevant WRT processing. No film is going to catch fire when submerged in aqueous processing solutions.

 

"the reel i pulled out was pinkish in color.."

 

- That's normal. What you're seeing is the anti-halation backing that'll wash off and bleach during development.

ahhh ok thank you it was weird to me as ive never seen that color but that makes sense thanks

yea i didnt think the base mattered a lot but ive never handled nitrate film so i wasnt really positive if there was anything id need to be careful with on it

Wow...this is a question we do not see everyday.? :)

 

Thank You

yea i wasnt really expecting to get a bunch of undeveloped and unused old fujifilm. been quiet a fun challenge thus far lol

Anyone processing Kodachrome has to deal with it also(folks do it at home, and my local lab does it by hand as a B&W film). In any case, it is readily removed by an alkaline solution.

 

I've never tried but suspect most developers would probably do it-I just wouldn't want to take the chance of having chunks of it floating around in mt developing solution.

 

A lot of folks recommend sodium bicarb(baking soda). That should work, but I think automated processors for cine film and Kodachrome use a sodium carbonate solution(washing soda). That should work a lot more efficiently. Sodium carbonate is used to raise the pH in many developers also.

 

In any case, to be absolutely sure I'd probably use a sodium carbonate solution with vigorous shaking for a minute or two, and go through 2-3 changes.

Yeah, but these guys say they remove it BEFORE they ship the film to You.......

Yeah, but these guys say they remove it BEFORE they ship the film to You.......

Hmm... using sanding disks,

I see...

http://bayouline.com/o2.gif

Wow...this is a question we do not see everyday.? :)

If this is too far off topic or polluting, just let me know and i will start a separate post.......that Cine-Still Film, how do those guys remove the "Rem-Jet" without ruining the film.?

Thank You

The rem-jet (removable jet black annihilation coat is a carbon black suspended in an acid plastic. This is an adhesive that softens in an alkaline solution.

Prepare the alkaline solution:

Heat 500ml water to 140°F

Mix in four teaspoons washing soda (sodium carbonate) on the shelf supermarket Arm & Hammer

Mix in two teaspoons baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) on the shelf supermarket Arm & Hammer

Washing soda added to water first followed by baking soda or mixture will clump.

Stir till completely dissolved, filter using coffee filter.

Soak the film in this solution for 8 minutes. This can be a pre-soak or after the fact soak. Most of the Rem-jet will come off, some will be stubborn. Using a well washed “tee-shirt”, gently buff the base side of the film.

How I do miss Gene M

There was someone who use to post a lot of "found films" here

LINK.

The rem-jet (removable jet black annihilation coat is a carbon black suspended in an acid plastic. This is an adhesive that softens in an alkaline solution.

 

Prepare the alkaline solution:

 

Heat 500ml water to 140°F

 

Mix in four teaspoons washing soda (sodium carbonate) on the shelf supermarket Arm & Hammer

 

Mix in two teaspoons baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) on the shelf supermarket Arm & Hammer

 

Washing soda added to water first followed by baking soda or mixture will clump.

 

Stir till completely dissolved, filter using coffee filter.

 

Soak the film in this solution for 8 minutes. This can be a pre-soak or after the fact soak. Most of the Rem-jet will come off, some will be stubborn. Using a well washed “tee-shirt”, gently buff the base side of the film.

At the risk of repeating myself for the third time.......After they do that... they wind the film into spools, ship the film to the public, and then they stick the cassette into their cameras , and shoot the film.?

How I do miss Gene M

 

 

LINK.

I always looked forward to seeing new posts from him.

At the risk of repeating myself for the third time.......After they do that... they wind the film into spools, ship the film to the public, and then they stick the cassette into their cameras , and shoot the film.?

I don't know of any firms selling cine film with the annihilation removed and then re-spooled. Several firms sold cine film repackaged. They sold with the price of processing included. The rem-jet, being on the base side of the film does not prohibit this film from being loaded into cassette and used in a still camera. If any firm is removing the rem-jet and then spooling, that's news to me. I think it would add too much to the cost thus the sustained marketability is in question. However -- most all things are possible.

ive read nitrate film shouldnt be put in humid air and id have to guess the freezer is going to be decently humid.

As ambient temperature drops, its capacity to hold air also decreases. This is why air conditions have to have a drain on them, for example(water condenses on the coils as the temperature drops). Dehumidifiers are effectively self-contained air conditions that just recirculate the air instead of venting hot air outside. The freezer is probably the dryest place in most folks' houses.

As ambient temperature drops, its capacity to hold air also decreases. This is why air conditions have to have a drain on them, for example(water condenses on the coils as the temperature drops). Dehumidifiers are effectively self-contained air conditions that just recirculate the air instead of venting hot air outside. The freezer is probably the dryest place in most folks' houses.

alright, i must have forgotten that, i guess freezer it is for now

I don't know of any firms selling cine film with the annihilation removed and then re-spooled. Several firms sold cine film repackaged. They sold with the price of processing included. The rem-jet, being on the base side of the film does not prohibit this film from being loaded into cassette and used in a still camera. If any firm is removing the rem-jet and then spooling, that's news to me. I think it would add too much to the cost thus the sustained marketability is in question. However -- most all things are possible.

From Their Website.......

..."Remjet backing free, resulting in a unique halation effect."

"Our proprietary "Premoval" process makes motion picture film safe to process in standard C-41 photo lab chemicals or at home.".....

From B&H....... "Premoval" of Rem-Jet Layer

Am i reading this wrong.?

From Their Website.......

..."Remjet backing free, resulting in a unique halation effect."

"Our proprietary "Premoval" process makes motion picture film safe to process in standard C-41 photo lab chemicals or at home.".....

 

From B&H....... "Premoval" of Rem-Jet Layer

 

Am i reading this wrong.?

Seems nuts to me -- who what's halation's -- Art for art's sake -- no rules in art -- removal means handling with wet fluids and buffing to remove!

Seems nuts to me -- who what's halation's -- Art for art's sake -- no rules in art -- removal means handling with wet fluids and buffing to remove!

Alan :)

1. I agree with you. This stuff is expensive, and i am having a hard time understanding Who/Why to buy this film.

2. My posts were a but Short/Terse. Wanted to make sure it did not seem like i was arguing with You or putting you on the spot. YOU (obviously) know more about this situation than i do.....just wanted to get some confirmation that i was reading all this correctly. :)

I have talked to a few people that swear by this, for shooting color (film) inside.

I don't know.....i am still not sure what to think.

Thanks for your help...I Appreciate It

I've heard REALLY good things about Kodak's current B&W cine film, but I haven't been in a hurry to try it.

If I wanted to play with cine film, 35mm short ends are RELATIVELY cheap-of course a lot of ECN-2 labs don't want to deal with still camera lengths. Years ago, I had a 250 back for a Canon F-1 and a semi-local lab was willing to talk to me about that length. Just doing some quick math in my head, I seem to recall 24 exposure rolls being about 3 1/2 ft long(it's been a while since I've shot a 24, but 36s are about 5 ft). That would make 250 be somewhere in the 30-35ft range. The cheap short ends are usually 50-75 ft, so that wouldn't be an unreasonable length for them. Ultimately, I didn't do it, though.

I've been guilty of "burning" frames on 35mm just to finish the roll-I'd hate to think what I'd do with a 250 back.

Seems nuts to me --

Man, when we are around long enough, there is a WHOLE lot nutty stuff. As long as it doesn't crop up in your kids, just roll your eyes and move along. :rolleyes:

I much appreciate your expert posts!

Alan :)

1. I agree with you. This stuff is expensive, and i am having a hard time understanding Who/Why to buy this film.

2. My posts were a but Short/Terse. Wanted to make sure it did not seem like i was arguing with You or putting you on the spot. YOU (obviously) know more about this situation than i do.....just wanted to get some confirmation that i was reading all this correctly. :)

I have talked to a few people that swear by this, for shooting color (film) inside.

I don't know.....i am still not sure what to think.

Thanks for your help...I Appreciate It

@ deny_rane --- Re-spooling cine film for the still camera is not new. In actual fact, this was the motive behind the Leica; the first 35mm. Movie shoots are expensive. Run out of film during the shoot and you are dead. Lots of partial rolls find their way to the re-spool market. The rem-jet does more than annihilation, mitigates light piping when loading and unloading in subdued light, cine camera with thru-the-lens viewfinder would otherwise fog film when photographer removes his head from the viewfinder. Several firms sold negative print film with processing. They developed up a negative plus they printed a slide, you got both back from the processor.

Does/Did black & white Cine-Film also use or need the "Rem-Jet treatment.?

Thank You

Several firms sold negative print film with processing.

Seattle Film Works is the one I remember from the 90s.

Any time you sent film to them for processing, they'd return it with the same number or more blank rolls.

With that said, I have some from probably the late 90s that's standard C-41 process.