price too high for client

<p>i recently shot a wedding reception at a restaurant. the owners of the restaurant liked some of the photos i took and expressed an interest in purchasing some of them. after mulling it over, looking at forums, and talking to other photographers i settled on a price of $140 per image. this would include unlimited usage rights for 1 year, including but not limited to web and print use, and would include hi resolution images on disc. i also offered him a discounted rate if he wanted to purchase more then 2 photos.<br>

most of the photographers i talked to said to do it for no less then $200 per image. i agreed but had a feeling this would be way over budget for what the restaurant would want to pay. <br>

he wrote back to politely decline my offer saying that they have never paid more then 35$ per image for photos in the past and my price was out of their budget.<br>

i'm over getting paid so little for what i do. i try to make a living off of photography and i offer a quality product. i need the cash, but i really don't want to lower my price.<br>

so, do i send a reply email back? should i mention why my prices are more then he's paid in the past? i feel like people should be made aware of what these things really do cost. just not sure how to go about explaining myself while still sounding professional.</p>

<p>thanks.</p>

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<p>should i mention why my prices are more then he's paid in the past?</p>

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<p>Can you explain why he should want to pay you more? That's very different than what you are saying. If you can't come up with a good explanation from the customer's point of view, you won't get anywhere.</p>

<p>I wouldn't spend too long on it. Move on to customers who are willing to pay a fair sum. Just do a short email saying something to the effect that you're sorry that you can't do business this time - that good photography takes time, effort, skill and investment, and it's how you make your living so unfortunately you can't offer your pictures at a low price. But wish him all the best. And forget it, don't worry about it, and move on to something else.</p>

<p>Oh man, I feel ya. Take my opinion for what it is. On one hand if you cut your prices to what they're willing to pay, you'll make a few bucks. On the other hand if you give in, you're not only hurting yourself, but hurting other professional photographers out there by devaluing a product. These people who think they can pay $35 per photo, they obviously have NO idea how much the equipment costs to be able to produce quality product. If they're not willing to pay, I wouldn't sell the pictures to them. They would obviously be using the photos to promote their restaurant, and the photos may actually generate more business for them. Paying $35.00 for what is essentially an ad, is ridiculous. If your pictures bring in even one or two additional customers, those pictures have paid for themselves! The restaurant owners are being cheap and short-sighted. <br>

You want to keep making a living with photography? Don't budge. When you do, they'll all expect to keep paying $35.00. Good luck using that money to replace or upgrade your equipment. It will only take you a few years.<br>

By the way, I'm an illustrator and I do covers for people who are self-publishing. I'm in the same jam when it comes to charging. Most of these people are looking for a high quality product that will bring attention to their books, but most of them are not willing to pay the price. Some artists will do the work for cheap....even free! How is one to compete with that and still survive? We creative people are hurting ourselves all the time by practically giving our work away for free. I don't see my mechanic fixing my car for free, and I don't see doctors working for the pleasure of healing. We all have to pay the bills, and it's time these people knew that it's hard work, talent and dedication that produces quality work even in the creative fields. </p>

<p>I normally eat hamburgers but the other night I went to this great restaurant and had a fantastic meal. When the bill arrived I was surprised at the price, and I told them I was only willing to pay $3.99, which is what I normally pay for a 'burger, but they wouldn't hear of it and actually wanted me to pay the full $98.99. I had to pay it. I wont go back there again.<br>

<br />Aye you know what I mean!</p>

<p>As Simon and Jeff wisely point out, say no, move on. You say you "need the cash" and to be honest at $35 an image your time spent preparing the images and delivering and/or agonising over and discussing this is going to cost you more than $35 in time. Thats time you could spend working at something that earns you a proper wage.</p>

<p>Be polite, professional and friendly. Reputations are made in all sorts of ways, not just on the quality of images.</p>

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<p> but hurting other professional photographers out there by devaluing a product.</p>

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<p><br />I don't buy this at all. I am not responsible for what other photographers make. Nobody else is either. I am responsible for me. I sell for what I can get that makes sense to me, I don't care what other photographers are selling for. If I was only able to get low prices, why would I starve to keep other photographers in business?</p>

<p>You can't convince someone, they either know or they don't, let it go. If they only pay $35 I don't think you will convince them to pay much more, they don't get it and probably don't know sh@t from shinola anyway. </p>

<p>But I will suggest that unless a client is more of a national type client(or bigger local/regional ones), offering the use of an image for 1 year is something they don't get and will likely decline. I am very tight on usage/fee for my big time clients, they get big returns off their advertising and such. Small clients, I rarely put a time limit on the use of the image--and don't charge as much either. There is a difference between local small businesses and big national ones. Restaurants struggle to stay open, working with them (get some free meals/bar tab) never hurts instead of a few bucks. Your significant other and you can have a great time without the cost and it is more palatable to the owners even if the $$ are more than they are used to paying.</p>

<p>If it's worth it to you to work on a deal with him;<br>

It maybe that he will settle for less than "unlimited usage rights for 1 year"... Perhaps he only wants to use them on his website?<br>

In which case maybe you are willing to offer the photos for less?</p>

<p>Either way I don't try to compete with 'criagslist' photogs (not puttin' anyone down).<br>

It's not worth it to me.<br>

I'll work on building relationships instead of wasting a bunch of time trying to make $200.</p>

<p>That's my 2...</p>

<p>It used to worry me when potential clients told us we were too expensive. Gradually I realised that no matter what level you set your prices at, unless you are actually doing it for free, some people will be shocked at how expensive you are. And if you're doing it for free, they will just treat you with contempt. I also have the impression that the more we increased prices, the less people found us expensive. I think it's partly because at the lower end of pricing, everyone is judging on price, trying to get the cheapest deal, and you are competing against people who will do it for free. As you move up the market, potential clients on the whole are more interested in quality, and provided the prices aren't totally crazy, they take the pricing more or less for granted. The thing is to recognise it, don't let it shake you, just move on to clients who are willing to pay a fair price for what you are offering.</p>

<p>Also, if you try to justify yourself to the penny pinchers, they will just take it as evidence of insecurity. If you say, "I don't think so" and not waste more time on them, it helps to educate them that they were way out with their first guess. Next time they ask, either you or someone else, chances are they might begin a little higher.</p>

<p>Move on ... find someone that's willing to pay what you think you're worth.</p>

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<p>they obviously have NO idea how much the equipment costs to be able to produce quality product.</p>

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<p>So what? Its irrelevant. Day after day you pay for products and services and have no idea how much the associated equipment costs or what all sorts of other costs or losses are involved. Virtually never do you base a purchase decision on it.</p>

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<p>I don't see my mechanic fixing my car for free, and I don't see doctors working for the pleasure of healing.</p>

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<p>Its not a very good analogy. There's not much fun or vanity in performing the work of most jobs. You chose an activity that people derive pleasure from as your profession. Therefore, you see people doing it merely for pleasure unlike your examples.</p>

<p>Lectures moralizing about what people ought to do will accomplish nothing. Adapting to the market and providing something of real or perceived value worthy of payment will.</p>

<p>If it doesn't feel right to sell something for a certain price, don't do it.</p>

<p>Go with your original instinct. It's usually correct. Just work up a polite refusal.</p>

<p>If your work is as good as your prices, then just relax about it, and let it go, Regards, Robert</p>

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<p>Just work up a polite refusal.</p>

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<p>There's no point in expending time and energy crafting some refusal. The ownership rejected the offer. There isn't anything to refuse.</p>

<p>"Let me do this: I'll double my price, but only accept $75.00 per image in cash (no quantity discounts) for the one year use, and you give me the difference in credit towards a few meals here."</p>

You were already paid for the images by the wedding party. You had the opportunity to make even more and sell some

low value images twice, you have cut off your nose to spite your face, the images owed you nothing and have little

residual value.

 

Thai is not the same as being commissioned by the restaurant, and having to factor genuine costs into the quote, it was

free money.

<p>I have to agree with Scott, if the guy had approached you with the proposition: 'I'd love to use some of your fantastic images for promotion, we can't pay but there is a 3 course meal in it for you and your family...' you may very well have taken him up on it!<br>

These images were already bought and paid for, this would have been a little extra cream and I'm willing to bet this guy knows this and now thinks you are a greedy bugger.<br>

Customers don't care what it costs you, they care what it costs them.</p>

<p>I agree with Scott and Ryan. Surely you were paid by the party that hired you so this is an unexpected windfall. Plus, what were his plans for the pictures? Was he going to display them in the restaurant? If so you'd be getting great publicity for future work.</p>

<p>How were you going to supply these? To me photographs in the $125 and up range are matted and framed and ready to hang on the wall. If this was what he requested then I can understand $140, but for a disk, with images you were already paid to photograph, $35 per image sounds great. I can't imagine you charged the original wedding party $140 for every image you provided. If you did, I congratulate you.</p>

<p>I'd go back and ask if the $35 offer was still acceptable and be thankful for the bonus.</p>

" Was he going to display them in the restaurant? If so you'd be getting great publicity for future work"

 

That kind of publicity is worth nothiing whatsoever, you can guarantee that no properly paying work would come from it. In fact - less than nothing, if anything, you'll just get a reputation as the mug who's willing to give away stuff for free.

 

"so this is an unexpected windfall"

 

In effect, it's a stock sale. Stock sales are always unexpected windfalls. If you're running a business, then you will have a

pricing policy for dealing with such sales, and it doesn't make sense to cave in to whatever any buyer happens to offer

just because "it's more than nothing". It's no way to run a business. You have to set e price for your product, some buyers

will buy it, some won't. From a normal stock agency like Alamy, the uses the restaurant is asking are several thousand

dollars per image. In fact, there isn't an option for such unrestricted use, but I just typed in to their calculator use on

posters outside for three years, and it came back with a figure of in the region of $5000. He's asking presumably for

unrestricted use forever, so in theory the price per image should be considerably more than that.

 

I'm not suggesting that you ask for figures in that region, but as a business decision it doesn't often make sense to give

your work away for $25. The value of the loss in your reputation is worth much more than the $25 you gain.

<p>-"In effect, it's a stock sale. Stock sales are always unexpected windfalls."-<br>

I disagree, there could only be one customer for these images so they are not useful as stock. Even if they were and could be sold to another customer for $150 on a stock site then $150 + the $35 he was willing to pay is still more than $150 alone.<br>

-"That kind of publicity is worth nothiing whatsoever, you can guarantee that no properly paying work would come from it. In fact - less than nothing, if anything, you'll just get a reputation as the mug who's willing to give away stuff for free."-<br>

Is the goodwill of another local business worth nothing? Assuming that this guy will think of you as a mug rather than a nice person for helping him out is taking a rather negative view on the world isn't it? When someone helps me or gives me a good deal I don't think of that person as a mug, I like to think that I would help them if the opportunity arose.</p>

"rather than a nice person for helping him out"

 

Helping him out of what? Is he going bankrupt? Why do you help another business out by giving away your product for

near-free? If you buy something very cheaply in a shop, do you feel forever grateful to that shop for helping you out?

 

He is not going to feel grateful to you, he will just take the pictures and use them, congratulating himself that he saved

spending thousands of quid commissioning a photographer to take pictures. It will just stick in his head that photography is something that people give away for free. He willl tell all his friends about it, and they will expect photography for free too. And even if he does feel gratitude, the chance of him referring a 'proper' client to you is remote. He IS the proper paying client. If you let every paying client have things for free in the hope that he will send you another proper paying client, you will go bust very quickly.

 

I'm not saying that you should never work for free, or never give pictures away for free. There are times to do both, but

this isn't one of them.

p.s. if the guy has something concrete to offer, like a flow of wedding clients, then it would of course be a different matter.

But it sounds like it's just a restaurant that happens to have a wedding there, rather than a venue. If it is a venue that

coordinates weddings and might refer clients, it would be different.

This would be an interesting experiment: go into his restaurant as a well-dressed stranger off the street, and ask what the price is for a meal. When he says $40, tell him that you had really expected to pay only $1 for it. Tell him that that is your final offer, and that

you will be really grateful to him for helping you out, and that you will tell all your friends to come along to his restaurant

too.

 

Then pick yourself up off the pavement outside, and ask him if he will consider negotiating at $2 instead. If you're really lucky, he might throw in a lesson in business management for free.

<p>-"This would be an interesting experiment: go into his restaurant as a well-dressed stranger off the street, and ask what the price is for a meal. When he says $40, tell him that you had really expected to pay only $1 for it. Tell him that that is your final offer, and that you will be really grateful to him for helping you out, and that you will tell all your friends to come along to his restaurant too.</p>

 

<p>Then pick yourself up off the pavement outside, and ask him if he will consider negotiating at $2 instead. If you're really lucky, he might throw in a lesson in business management for free."-<br>

This guy didn't commission the work, so your example doesn't work, a more fitting experiment would be to go into a bakery first thing in the morning and price some buns, then just before closing. In many cases the same buns are reduced in price because the wouldn't be sold otherwise. Another example would be to go to a building site and try to buy some building supplies when they are just finishing a development, in many cases they have things that they will sell of cheap otherwise they have to haul it away and store it or simply throw it out. They have made their money and selling leftovers is a bit of extra cash.<br>

For all you know this guy gives the unused food to the salvation army at the end of the night (as many do) as it would otherwise be binned.<br>

I didn't say give it away for free, but the images have already been paid for once so anything extra is cream.<br>

-"If you buy something very cheaply in a shop, do you feel forever grateful to that shop for helping you out?-"<br>

No, but it may well be that it's the first place I think of when anyone asks about that product. Again, shops reduce prices on items that would otherwise not be sold.</p>

 

<p>Stick to your guns. There will always be people who want to slash their wrists, but they will either need to raise their prices or won't be around for long. The way I have always looked at it is that if I am going to break even or lose money there are a lot more fun things to do. In my business, although I have never been brave enough to try it, price point is something that some people will brag about, as in bragging to their friends how much they paid. On one hand my product is exquisite and would certainly be worthy of bragging about, but I don't have the cajones to adopt that pricing model.</p>