Powershot G5: How good for street shooting? Anything better?

Need some feedback here from G3/G5 users (but also from those of you

who use or know about similar cameras). I'm looking to buy a digicam

for street use. After doing some research (various digital camera

photo sites, plus the reviews here on Photo.net), I'm starting to

zero in on these Canon cameras.<p>

 

What I particularly like about them - or think I would like, from

what I've read - is the swiveling viewfinder and the ability to shoot

in jpeg, then convert to RAW on review.<p>

 

My concern though is with speed. Specifically, shutter lag and write

time. <p>

 

Is the shutter lag significant? Do you actually have to adjust your

approach to compensate for it? (And are there any other digicams of

about the same size that have essentially no shutter lag?)<p>

 

How much lag is there between shots? Is it possible to fire off two

or three shots in sequence, when shooting in jpeg mode, or must you

wait for each to be written to the card before you can take the next?

<p>

 

Also, can you convert jpegs shot at <i>any</i> resolution, to RAW; or

only jpegs shot at the highest setting?<p>

 

I've read about the purple fringing that occurs under some conditions

with the G5. This seems not to be an issue with the lower megapixel

G3. And the G3 seems to be rated higher than the G5 in the reviews

I've read. But I can't help thinking that the latter's higher

megapixel count will provide greater resolution - and there isn't

that much difference in price. If you were buying all over again,

which would you get and why?<p>

 

Or would you recommend another digicam altogether? Any helpful

comments, useful info, or suggestions are appreciated.

The lag time was a royal pain in the G2-days, capturing the critical moment was much about luck. Lately I've been playing with an Olympus C-5060 and things have definitely improved in the lag department, although it still doesn't rival pro SLRs. I suggest you try the cameras, the lag is something to account.

 

Lag between shots depends; with jpeg it can be ok, with RAW forget it: RAW is for the moments when you have time to wait for the camera to finish writing. See www.dpreview.com for some approximate write and lag timings.

 

Suggestions: a Minolta A2 has a built-in image stabilization, an Olympus C-5060 has a zoom that goes to the 35 mm equivalent focal length of 27 mm, the Sony DSC-V1 is smaller than the G5. These are all things to consider: what are your priorities?

<a href="http://www.photo.net/equipment/canon/g5/">Check this out, from a real

street photographer...</a><P>

 

My take on using digicams for SP is yes, you can definitely use them. But there are

limitations for which you need to compensate. Not so much shutter lag, but auto-focus

speed - for me anyway - but you can compensate for that. I've been using a sony for two

years and have returned with lots of decent pix. I can't imagine not having a swivel screen

now cuz many times I shoot low to the ground - makes it tough to consider superior

dSLRs.<BR>

<P>

<center>

<img src= "http://pages.sbcglobal.net/b-evans/IMAGES/BublemanLowRez.jpg"><BR>

<I>Bubbleman ©2003 Brad Evans</I>

</center>

I had the G2 and now have the G5 and the latter is much more

versitle.

 

This past week I was part of a two-person still photography team

on a 6-day shoot working with a film crew shooting up to 35mm

Panavision. The art director asked me to do behind-the-scenes

candids of the crew and agency people, so I kept my G5 in my

pocket all week and grabbed shots in between.

 

Some observations about using the G5 for candids...

 

-ISO speed/lens speed/DOF made getting sharp images easy

-AF speed was hardly ever an issue.

-The tilt-and-swivel finder makes it possible to candidly frame

people/scenes at a 45 degree angle so they are completely

unaware they're being photographed... a great asset

-The ability to save in RAW if you get a great shot is very useful

-With the camera generated sounds turned off, the camera is

VERY quiet. I was shooting often while the film crew was rolling

cameras with sound and no one ever knew it.

 

Your questions...

 

JPG/RAW formats - I'm not sure whether it's possible to save

RAW from lower rez JPGs because I always shoot highest

rez/lowest compression JPG. I think there's an online G5 manual

available for download in PDF format.

 

Shutter Lag - Once the camera locks focus, no shutter lag. My

way of working is to lock focus then recompose and shoot at

peak moment.

 

Delay between shots - I've hardly used it, but I think you can take

about 3 shots at 2.5 fps.

 

Purple fringing - Yes, there is some, especially at wider

apertures near the edge of the frame when high contrast (tree

limbs against the sky) is encountered. I use theimagingfactory's

Debarrelizer PS plugin to correct this when needed. It has

sliders for red and blue channels and a very fast preview

window.

 

Other recommendations - I've really only used the Canon P&S

digicams (also have Canon dslr's so it was a no-brainer to buy

the G2/G5, since all my flash stuff works with them too).

However, I'm taking a very hard look next week at the Leica

Digilux 2. While it lacks the tilt/swivel LCD and has no RAW

buffer, images I've downloaded from the web from this camera

far surpass any I've seen from a P&S, that is if you can call an

$1,850 camera a P&S.

 

Hope this helps.<div></div>

Nice photo, Brad. Without the swivel screen I imagine you'd have to be <i>very short</i> to have gotten that. :)<p>

 

I did read Jeff's G5 review. And also Josh Root's review of the G3. And I found both to be helpful.<p>

 

Up to now, more or less, I've been planning to buy the Panasonic DMC-LC1. That would certainly solve the autofocus lag issue - and be more in keeping with the way I'm used to working. <p>

 

What first put me off the LC1 is the lack of a RAW buffer. Surely some images I'd want to save in RAW - but the only way to do that with the LC1 is to <i>shoot</i> in RAW, and then you have to deal with those ungodly write times. Forget it.<p>

 

Then I started thinking about the LC1's electronic viewfinder, which, from what I've read about it, I doubt I'd use - rather, I'd use the LCD. And I thought about the camera's size and weight. If I'm going to shoot using an LCD, I reasoned, I might as well get something smaller, lighter, and with an LCD that swivels.<p>

 

<i>a Minolta A2 has a built-in image stabilization, an Olympus C-5060 has a zoom that goes to the 35 mm equivalent focal length of 27 mm, the Sony DSC-V1 is smaller than the G5. These are all things to consider: what are your priorities?</i><p>

 

Thanks for the ideas, Oskar. The image stabilization would be nice. But I tend to shoot wide and close, and in any case never beyond 105mm, so it isn't really a key feature. I've looked at the c-5060, and seriously considered the DSC-V1. Can't remember now how or why I nixed them in favor of the Canons. I'll take another look.<p>

 

I guess what it boils down to is whether any of these cameras is fast enough for unencumbered street work - or whether i'm barking up the wrong tree and would be better off waiting for the Epson digital rangefinder - and who knows what kind of real specs that will have! - it may not be the answer either. I might be better off sticking with film for now (and my mobile phone camera :). But I'd really like to get a digicam if I can find one that doesn't have too much lag and write time for a few quick shots. I'll definitely be heading to the camera/electronics/big box store for some tryouts. And in the meantime welcome further info.

Ask and receive! I guess our posts crossed in the cyber ether, David. Very useful info. If the G5 is as you say, then it sounds like it might be the one for me.<p>

 

As far as the Digilux 2 goes, the LC1 is the same camera - but you can pick it up (or order it from) Hong Kong for around $1200. I've got some names and numbers of good shops there if you want them.

And btw I can certainly understand the appeal of the D2-LC1. If it weren't for my special requirements I'd get one in a heartbeat. Who knows, I may still.

If you are thinking about a G5 look for a G3 instead. I have one and am very impressed. Recently had a 16x20 print made from a top res JPEG shot and it looks OK to me. Some people say that the G5 is noisier than the G3 because of the extra pixels crammed on to the sensor. Shutter lag is a problem when using flash but not otherwise in my experience.

CD

I had a G5 from the time it came out until a couple of weeks ago when I sold it to a friend. Why? Because the Leica Digilux2 simply blows it away, especially for the kind of picture taking which you are contemplating. I have put a few shots from my very first outing with the D2 in my portfolio. It is expensive and it has no RAW buffer, but I am knocked out by the results from it. I have Leica M and R cameras, and the D2 seems to produce a similar "look" which I really like. It is surprisingly light yet seems to be very well put together. The hatches giving access to the output ports and the SD card slot are very substantial compared with the G5. Although the LCD doesn't tilt and swivel (which I really liked on the G5) it is very large and exceptionally sharp.

If you do go with the G5 though you will be mostly very pleased - Canon are not building too many poor products! (Except for the flash exposure on the 10D!)

What I really liked about the C-5060 was the wide zoom - I'm not a big user of wide-angles, but for taking pics of people and moments 27 mm makes all the difference over 35 mm (at least for me) and it's also very useful for landscape/cityscape/architecture -type shots. The C-5060 is not a perfect camera, but no camera is.

I have a G3 and have been very careful with the swivelling screen because a friend's Nikon coolshot bit the dust from a loose connection in the swivel. I almost never pull the screen out, but the last time I did, the it went blank, so I quickly put it back and haven't touched it since.

I think the swiveling viewfinder is the most useful feature of the G series (and the equivalent Nikons and Sonys.) If you don't need the swiveling finder and you aren't looking for a "pocketable" camera, you might as well get the DRebel.<p>

 

<i>Is the shutter lag significant? Do you actually have to adjust your approach to compensate for it? </i><p>

 

As is pointed out above (and, I think, in my review on photo.net), the shutter doesn't lag much, but the autofocus does. I find myself using "zone focus" for street shooting, putting it in manual mode.<p>

 

<i>How much lag is there between shots?</i><p>

 

Without autofocus, it's not bad. It depends on the size of file you are writing. WIth autofocus, it's hopeless to get a couple quick shots in.<p>

 

<i>Also, can you convert jpegs shot at any resolution, to RAW; or only jpegs shot at the highest setting?</i><p>

 

There's nothing that says you can't, but I haven't tried it. However, I find this feature over-rated - when you're out shooting, it's hard to make the decision. I shoot in RAW most of the time, despite the extra write time with this camera, and jpg when it's family snaps or pictures for Craigs' List.<p>

 

<i>I've read about the purple fringing that occurs under some conditions with the G5. This seems not to be an issue with the lower megapixel G3. And the G3 seems to be rated higher than the G5 in the reviews I've read. But I can't help thinking that the latter's higher megapixel count will provide greater resolution - and there isn't that much difference in price. If you were buying all over again, which would you get and why?</i><p>

 

Purple fringing can be easily fixed in software. However, if I were starting over, given that I now use a 10D, I would probably get the G3. The amount of "serious" shooting I am doing with the G5 has dropped significantly since I got the 10D, and the G3 would be fine. The point isn't what I do, but how the choice is more complex than just G3 vs G5.

Peter,

 

I got my G2 over two years ago and the G5 last summer and both

cameras (and the T&S viewfinder) have been used and abused

continuously, with never a problem.

 

I also know 5 or 6 other folk with these cameras and I've never

heard of that kind of problem. Every mechanical thing could have

a mechanical problem, but if we worry too much about wheels

falling off we'd never get anywhere in a car. The viewfinder's

features are one of the most desirable features of the G-series

cameras and should be taken advantage of.

 

To not do so would be like driving a Ferrari only 10mph to church

and back on Sunday. What fun is that?

<i> Why? Because the Leica Digilux2 simply blows it away, especially for the kind of picture

taking which you are contemplating. I have put a few shots from my very first outing with

the D2 in my portfolio. </i><p>

 

Those uploaded photos are very grainy, the huge DOF is a detriment and I don't see

anything in them that couldn't have been taken with a G5, or a G3. <p>

 

Also your uploads are way too big -- photo.net does not allow uploads that are

1920x2560 and 800k in size. They can be a maximum of 100k in size and less than 800

pixels in the long dimension. Read the rules: http://www.photo.net/photo-posting-

guidelines. <p>

 

As for Doug's question, digital camera technology is moving so quickly, and prices are

dropping fast too, so I'd look for a bargain and prepare to keep it until certain problems

(fringing, shutter/focus lag) are fixed at lower price-points. <p>

 

At this point, I'd probably recommend looking at B&H's $490 Canon S50 bundled with a

512MB CompactFlash Card. (Available with the standard card for $100 less.)

Thanks to everyone for your answers. Thanks especially to Jeff for addressing my questions in detail. <p>

 

I had a hands-on look at the G5 a couple of days ago. I could see what Jeff is saying about the autofocus lag (though I realize that's probably the case with most digital point-and-shoots). The T&S LCD was great - something I could use to real advantage. But the camera is just too big and blocky feeling for me. (I was expecting - and wanting - something smaller.)<p>

 

Which brings me to �[� Z's thoughtful suggestion, the S50. This camera has the form factor - especially its size - I was looking for. Its specs look respectable :) - it'll fit nicely in a pocket, and appears very unassuming. And, like the G5/G3, I can save the jpegs in RAW if I choose (which may, or may not, be something I'll end up using, but nice to know it's there if I choose to). It's unfortunate that it doesn't have the tilt/swivel LCD (if only it did!) - but I think the camera's size outweighs that drawback for me.<p>

 

This camera should be pretty ideal for personal use. Thanks again, everyone.

By the way, I notice that B&H has removed that specific S50/CompactFlash bundle from

their website, and they're selling the 512MB card separately for $145. No matter, today you

can still find those cards for $100:

 

http://dealram.com/