POLE... Should I stay or should I go now?

This is going to be another fullframe vs. crop pole, with the emphasis that many have started out where I have and

question the same things, also many of you have already made your move and can advice from both sides of the

fence.

 

Basically 1.5 years I entered the DSLR world with an XTi bundled with the 18-55kit and a 75-300 lens. Since then I

spent a great deal of time reading about and practising photography and have added a 50 f1.4 for portraits and a

Sigma 10-20 for fun and drama! I am a hobby photographer and match the craft to my lifestyle which includes hiking,

backpacking and basically all forms of out door travel. Landscapes are my pasion and I do love shooting in lowlight.

I also do a great deal of family and party shots.

 

Now the catch is... The 5D sounds about right for me but at a tremendous cost, 2600 for 5D & 24-105L. This would

give the good wide to tele zoom I crave and my portrait lens would now be a fast normal, and I would have to save yet

again to get back into my beloved ultrawides.

 

On the other hand be a strictly hobby photographer I could continue with crop sensors and forget about FF. In this

case I would go out and buy the 17-55 asap (I am desperate to replace the kit with a quality lens of similar focal

range), having a fairly good system that would keep me shooting for now and eventually move up to 40 or 50D

adding maybe the sigma 30 f1.4, a 70-200 and perhaps a macro lens.

 

So what do you all believe the future holds? Is it wise to invest in more crop body lenses? will crop sensors

compete with FF in low light and image quality in the future? What paths have you taken and why?

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan

If you got the cash, buy the best toys you can afford. And, if low light is your thang, FF is king. Why furt around? Enjoy life

now. A 5D II is much cheaper than a gambling spree, drug habit, GF or new motorcycle. Hell, it almost free compared to those sorts of

things.

Ryan, only you can answer some of the questions you pose.

 

One thing to keep in mind, though, is that full-frame DSLRs like the 5D expose any softness or other flaws a lens might exhibit, particularly out near the corners of the frame, the part which is cropped out on 1.6X cameras.

 

Therefore, depending on your expectations, getting satisfactory results from a 5D might be more costly than you think if it requires lens upgrades.

There is a flip side to everything. 5D is slower ( 3-4 fps, no pop up flash or sensor cleaner ).

 

A few things to consider. Have you tried a 5D? Its nice and all but really the little extra width will not make you become a

better photographer but yes the 5D 24-105 combo is a nice one. I have that lens on a 40D and its just not quite the same

but still its very good.

 

I was considering the same move but decided to just ad a 10-22 to the mix which by the way is my first EF-S lens. The

best part of the crop body format is price. I don't mind taking my 40D on say a boat or where ever since replacement is

not nearly as expensive as a 5D. I think for that reason and the speed I would never part with my 40D. I would just ad a

5D to my setup.

 

Few options.

 

1. wait a bit longer, the 5D price is sure to drop when the 5D2 is out.

 

2. ( what I did ) Use only EF lenses and get a used or less expensive ultra wide so your not putting a lot of money into

the crop format.

There is nothing wrong with the 5D Mark I. It still takes pictures which beat the hell out of most cameras in IQ.

I would say go for Mark II but if you can't, go for original 5D.

Ryan, my tastes have generally been along the lines of wide angle photography, so my 5D has been a godsend. If you like wide photography, you'll have a lot more attractive lens options with FF. The opposite is true if you are into extreme telephoto work. When I consider the extraordinary costs of good glass in long focal lengths, I can only conclude that I'm not interested enough in extreme tele work to justify the cost -- not even close. However, with a crop body, all lenses get a lot "longer" for not an extra penny spent.

 

There are also differences in sensitivity in noise (better for FF cameras), but I think lens options have been the big driving force for me.

 

Another vote for the original 5D. I love mine. :-)

As far as what does the future hold? I've got two1.6 bodies and two 1DMIIN's 1.3 bodies and they will be the last crop bodies that i purchase. I will simply use these until they absolutly die then i will move on to the FF overings at that time. With the exception of one lens, all my lens purchasas have been full frame lenses. I belive that the crop bodies will eventually fade out over the next 5 years or so. Regardless of your decision, you should have a decent body that offers controls without having to flip through menues. The origional 5D has become a classic that continues to produce some of the nicest images to date. I would bet that it will be the longest withstanding body yet produced by canon. I would think the best decision for you at this point in your investments would be the 5DMII for it is sure to be a long life and liked camera.

Very nice, the opinions are rolling now!

 

Very nice analogy Puppy Face.

Brent- you bring up a good argument againts FF which I never would have thought of.

Tommy- thanks for sharing your ideas although speed would not hold me back, I have a 430ex (forgot to mention) and dont like popups. As far as lenses though, if I were to stick with a crop I would have to have a good EF-S lens such as the 17-55 f2.8 since 24mm a long way from 17mm on a crop body, creating to many lens changes for my liking.

Zafar- My thoughts exactly, on the original 5D plus it comes with the 24-105L for the price of the 5D MKII!

Sarah- I love your rub it my face style! Such a tease!

 

Still I wonder how much quality is there in the FF sensors and how long of a future will they have? There seem to be a lot more small ones out there.

 

Cheers, RY

Michael, you slipped one in before my last post! Interest lifespan on crop sensors, I would have thought they would surpass the FF based on the fact that everything is eventually built better in a smaller package. Thankyou!

 

4:1 for FF, not sure what to classify Brents comment as?

For the sake of the pole...

 

I currently shoot with an XTi but have borrowed a friend's 5D + 24-105 L IS kit on multiple occasions (a few events, small weddings, parties, etc) and am convinced I will be upgrading! In fact, if there were no news about the 5D2 coming out soon then I would likely have already purchased the 5D.

 

If you love landscape and low light then FF is the way to go, no question. Plus you'll enjoy the lower noise levels as compared to your XTi. The kit you referred to plus your 50mm 1.4 will be a great combo for a long time.

 

It's true you will be lugging a heavier kit around (maybe not great for backpacking) and you will lose the option of a pop up flash (which seldom produces great results anyway) but overall I think you'd really prefer the 5D.

 

Do you know anyone that would let you borrow theirs for awhile? (It would have to be a good friend, of course) That made all the difference for me as far as really getting hands on experience to help me make my decision. So much better than sitting in the store! If you know someone but they're reluctant to let you borrow it you might offer to take some portraits of them and their family (with their 5D, of course). Who knows, they might appreciate having some shots of them for the holidays...

With all due respect Ryan, this sounds like you have some pre-Christmas buying itch. What you say points in all sorts of directions, but by no means makes you a definitive 5d candidate.

 

>lifestyle which includes hiking, backpacking and basically all forms of out door travel.

Check the weight of your setup now and the weight of your ideal 5d setup - are you willing to lug the difference around? Plus, as Tommy pointed out, willing to run the risk of ruining your 5D on your travels?

 

> Landscapes are my pasion and I do love shooting in lowlight. I also do a great deal of family and party shots.

Ergo, you shoot sort of everything, right. The 5D is hardly handy for party or family pictures. And a neccessity for none of these subjects.

 

>This would give the good wide to tele zoom I crave

How would it? With the 5D tele will be much more difficult, i.e. pricey to attain. On the other hand, there are so many UWA options for crop, that you hardly need a FF cam to achieve that.

 

>will crop sensors compete with FF in low light and image quality in the future?

Don't they already? (Aaah, pure heresy, let the blood-bath commence...) Do yourself a favour and head over to

 

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/(appareil1)/184|0/(appareil2)/176|0/(appareil3)/202|0/(onglet)/0/(brand)/Canon/(brand2)/Canon/(brand3)/Nikon

 

and look at the comparison between the 400D, the 5D and the D90.

Ignore the overview only, but concentrate on the sub-tabs. Do use the PRINT, not the screen button in the upper left corner. This will show you differences between these cameras based on an 8" by 12" print, because a specific print size is what you will be lookng to make. Peering at 100% pixel level is not an end in itsself. Look at the differences, substitute a 50D for your 400D if you wish (you'll be surprised at the lack of a tangible quality difference). You'll be cured of your 5D itch, if you are willing to be cured. Now, go henceforth, hike and take beautiful pictures. ;-)

 

P.S. I kept looking for that POLE, but it never showed up ...

IMO... Stick with what you have and treat yourself to a trip, someplace to go shoot some landscapes.

 

Many folks look at FF cameras (and the 5D in particular) as the solution for landscape photography. But - there is no advantage to high iso in landscape photography, a tripod works better. Also, landscapes are often shot with maximum dof, and there's no practical difference in dof and fov between a 10 mm lens at f/11 on APSC versus a 16 mm lens at f/16 on full-frame.

 

The real advantage of FF cameras is for wedding photography, portraiture and flash photography. This is where you want high iso performance, and shallow dof at wider fov.

 

I'm a landscape/travel photographer myself, XTi plus S10-20, just got back from a 2 week trip, planning another week before xmas, got a 6 week trip lined up for spring next year.

OR...add the 18-200 to your lens collection, it has fantastic length and width, and you can take advantage of the reach (320

mm FF equivalent) and the width (about 28 mm FF equivalent). I use it on the 40D and the xti, and this lens is great with

both of them...

I think I read a comparison on the 20D and 5D on Bob Atkins site, you should check it out. I think he came to the conclusion that the difference isn't that big if using kit type lenses. To buy the 5D and some L lenses to replace all the lenses you have would be a BIG investment. You probably wouldn't get that much for the gear you already have. Do you have the non-IS 75-300 lens? If you upgraded that to a 70-200L I think you would see a bigger difference than using the 75-300 on a 5D. Others may suggest otherwise. Maybe upgrade your lenses first, and if you are still unhappy then change to 5D?

S. Henderik- a.k.a Judge of Definitive 5D candidate.

 

Its nice to see a good fight for the crop side, However my itch comes from the ongoing itch to achieve greater quality. My direction(sorry to mislead) is that my pasion does lie within landscapes and low light photography. The fact that inbetween my passions I also take many family and party shots only supports my need for a realtivly fast normal or moderate wide to tele (i.e. 17-55 or 24-105). I have no desire to own any long tele's, their just not my style.

 

Perhaps there is some risk involved related to my "lifestyle"!?! Yet with all risks come precautions. Furthermore I believe that a good camera system is a necessity regardless of weather or not it happens to be a 5D. Wieght and size are very valid arguments between my options.

 

Thanks for the link, one may hesitate to trade up for a 40D or 50D but the 5D looks promising.

 

 

 

Arie-

 

I appreciate your naturalist aproach which I find very grounding!

Recently I moved away from the canadian rockies and havent visited to many nice landscapes since! My mindset has been to build my system and then travel but just thinking about the travel and the memories seems to present a new overwhelming "itch" to view some more of the world!

 

 

By the way, I was hoping to see some of your travel photo's and was shocked to find that you have not posted any!

 

Happy Travels,

Ryan

Pole is something you fish with, and something you....never mind. But I've never purchased a 1.6x lens because I used

(use) film cameras before digital, and no part of common sense would allow me to buy a lens I couldn't use on all bodies....

hmmm... intersting things come to mind to get photo's in hard to reach areas!

Ryan - some of my photos are <A HREF="http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=201216">here</A>.<P>

As for 17-55/2.8 IS. Some folks who have this lens say it's so good that it's the key reason they won't switch to FF.

Since I have both a crop and a ff (5D & 50D), were it me, I'd pack the crop for hiking. The most important

thing for landscape photography is being in the landscape... go someplace with a great view and shoot! And

yes, buying L lenses can put a real crimp in your shrimp and champagne budget! Oh yes, and given the

season upcoming, the pole could only be North, with reindeer, a sleigh, and a jolly old elf!

I'm with WT.....pole? Like as in a guy from Poland?

Very nice photo's Arie, I am envious of your travels and life in BC! I just moved from Kelowna to Onterible.

 

I see you are a big user of Tamrons 17-50 f2.8, it looks like a very nice lens and I entertained that also as a bang for the buck standard zoom.

POLE - you know the Festivus kind

 

You dance around the two options and choose in Seinfeld tradition

Depends what you shoot. A friend of mine is a senior photographer with Reuters and was head of the paddling sports at the Beijing Olympics. He could have any camera he wants, but uses the crop versions, as do a huge number of his colleagues.

Hi Ryan,

 

If the price of a 5D + 24-105 kit is a bit of a stretch, how about buying used? I think you could make your dollars go a bit farther. There are going to be a lot of upgraders to the 5D2, judging from all the salivating that's been going on. Many will be letting go of some fine 5Ds with low mileage, I'm sure.

 

Of course, the kit is a pretty sweet deal. A $1000+ lens makes it about $1600 for a brand new 5D, with full warranty and such.

Ryan, I own the 5D. It is a terrific camera to work with! I also purchased the 24-70 f2.8 L lens. This lens is a great portrait lens but I think it produces a soft landscape image. So I wonder if the 24-105 L would produce a similiar landscape image? Although I do not own this lens, I would consider the purchase of the 16-35 f2.8 L. Notice I am not scrimping on quality. You will not be dissapointed by purchasing quality gear! The 5D is a great full frame camera. You could compromise a bit and purchase the older body and then get the best lenses you can afford. You could visit a local camera store and rent what you are considering purchasing. That way you can try before you buy. Good Luck!