Polarizer and/or gold reflector useful for food photography or not?

<p>Hi photographers<br>

I'm into round two next week taking closeups of vegan Sushi and indian dishes and desserts and wonder if a polarizer and gold reflector would be of any use for more saturation, lesser unwanted reflections and warmer colors/shadows or not. I planned to not use a filter and only the white or translucent part of the small reflector I got today and also not use the white shoot-through umbrella again for the slave flash but simply bounce it up to the ceiling. I will use the bit of natural light coming from a window and use slow shutter speeds around 1/25 for some ambient light.<br>

And, is there anything NATURAL beside water and oil to make the food (rice and vegetables) look fresher but still leave it eatable?<br>

my learning curve into food photography so far :-) <a href="../pentax-camera-forum/00ZuZ3">http://www.photo.net/pentax-camera-forum/00ZuZ3</a> <br>

thanks alot. </p>

<p>The only thing the polarizer might contribute is to reduce the glare off reflective surfaces, be it the food, the serving vessels or the cloth or whatever you choose to place the plate on. In looking at your pictures in your link, I don't notice much glare, so I'm not sure it would contribute much. Can't speak to the gold reflector except that it would change the color temperature. You might try it and see if you like the effect.</p>

<p>I don't think you'll find a polarizer providing you with deeper colors in a case like this, not in the way that it helps out with the sky while shooting landscapes, for example.<br /><br />Reflections are all about the angle of the light, and the family of angles that allow the reflections to be seen. The family of angles is a function of the size of the light source, and the working distance and focal length of the lens. Have you pawed through a copy of <em>Light, Science and Magic</em> yet? You absolutely should, because you're perilously close to re-inventing the wheel, here. <br /><br />As for the warm reflector ... it's easier to alter scene-wide color temps in post, so the main reason to use a warm reflector is when you want a <em>distinction</em> between the color temps of multiple light sources in the scene. That's for when you want to cast some warm fill on the subject, while allowing, for example, the background to remain cool. A straight gold reflector is probably a bit heavy-handed for food work. I'd consider one of the two-sided ones that can do double duty, and is only semi-metallic.<br /><br />As for making food moist-looking... your options expand dramatically when you're willing to let go of a few dollars worth of edibility. Really. Compare all of the time you're putting into this to the cost of the vegetables. If the purpose is to really showcase the chef's work, in the interests of getting many, many people to further appreciate it in person later, then a sacrificial bit of tofu or plate of nuts and whatnot is <em>not</em> a bad investment. <br /><br />Otherwise, consider things like gelatin, karo syrup, honey, etc. But mostly, it's all about the results. A lot of food has been sacrificed on the Altar Of Food Photography, and for good reason.</p>

<p>Stephen, thanks. I got quite a bit of unwanted reflections with/in the milk and at the restaurant with the yellow dahl soup surface and since some people seem to like higher saturated colors with food than the default I think that could be pronounced with a polarizer as well. On the other side I fear that using such a filter could render the food surfaces even more lifeless if too much reflections are missing and I don't want to prepare the food with some artifical stuff to make it shiny. I have the weekend left for some test with dummies but no real vegan Sushi at home :-)</p>

<p>Thanks again for your fast and helpful answer Matt, now I have something to think about and experiment a bit over the weekend. I will have to order that book, but read what I can get online for free at the moment.</p>

<p>"<em>Otherwise, consider things like gelatin, karo syrup, honey, etc. But mostly, it's all about the results. A lot of food has been sacrificed on the Altar Of Food Photography, and for good reason."</em><br>

Lupo Lobo is the expert on food photography on this site, so you may want to contach him. I attended this Photogrpher Assistant boot-camp once and one of the photographers there was demonstrating her food photography skills. This woman had been photographing food for magazines for 25 years. Ever since she got out college and borrowed 10,000 to purchase a view camera.</p>

<p>She still uses a view camera but now it's digital. I dont remember her using any filters at all, much less a polarizer filter. She used hotlights and had an assistant food preparer arange the food on the table. The food not only looked good, but it smelled good too. Unfortunatelly it was packed with so many chemicals that you could not eat it. </p>

<p>I've taken two food photography courses, and only used white and silver reflectors (along with monolights and softboxes of course). I find white to be the most useful. You also need to learn about food styling when doing food photography, because that has a great deal to do with the finished product.<br>

As far as keeping food edible, it depends on what you're shooting. With fruits and vegetables, you have to go through ALOT of produce to find the most perfect specimens that you can to start with. Some cooked items need to be undercooked to retain their moisture, and then there are other tricks of the trade that you can use that won't keep your food edible. I end up tossing most cooked items after a shoot anyway, since getting that perfect shot can sometimes take a couple of hours.<br>

If you're really interested in this genre of photography, which is quite difficult to master, I'd highly recommend the classes I took at www.ppsop.com. I can't believe how much I learned and improved with those courses. You could also take a look at Lou Manna's book, Digital Food Photography, and there's a fantastic book on food styling by Delores Custer called Food Styling. She's been in the business of styling for 30+ years, and the book is practically a bible for that side of things.</p>

<p>Thanks as well Harry and Devon. I have to teach myself (with pnet and others sites help of course) and can only ask the Sushi chef for some styling tips. Beside lacking contrast with the white plates last time his meals do still look and taste much better than my photography skills :-) But at least I do like my "hot chocolate shot" so far. This is a freelance job no money involved for a vegan business starter and a member of a new vegan society here in Switzerland and it was my idea and my present for him to take a food photo series for the web and the restaurant menu card.</p>

<p>Glycerine is the standard glaze for food photography. As I remember it tastes very sweet (only tasted it once a very long time ago). Edible, but you wouldn't really want to! Food photography is purely about what stuff looks like - not about eating it afterwards.</p>

<p>Food photography is quite simple ... unfortunately, like anything that looks simple, it is extremely difficult to do.</p>

<p>While I have commercially shot food, much more of my experience was as an Art Director/Creative Director for an ad agency that had Unilever Food Division and Grace Caribbean Foods among others as clients. I've also done national restaurant chains, even beer (St. Pauli Girl) and tons of other consumables. Hundreds of TV commercials and still shoots with some of the best food photographers and cinematographers, lighting grips, stylists, and prop masters in the business.</p>

<p>There are two initial elements for successful food photography, and neither are technically oriented ... they are initial creative decisions that strongly affect the subsequent technical decisions.</p>

<p>One is the general ambience you wish to convey ... warm, homey and inviting ... all the way to chic, trendy and hip. </p>

<p>The other is related appetite appeal ... is it bountiful, hearty, comfort food ... or precise and artistic, like haute cuisine? Or what?</p>

<p>These initial decisions will affect how the food is prepared, styled, what props may be used, and how the image will be composed and lit. It is not enough to just be competent at photography, one has to convey a personality that enhances the food's appeal not only to the mouth, but to the eye and brain. </p>

<p>Were I an Art Director for a vegan food shoot, my initial thoughts would be to convey a very strong sense of "Natural" and use a simple, almost "soft spiritual" presentation. Most any of the great food shooters I've had the pleasure of working with would know exactly how to interpret this. </p>

<p>So, once a creative intent is decided upon, the work would begin. For example, if the personality was country warm abundance, simulated sunlight would be utilized ... like warm pies cooling on a window still on a summer day, a hint of breeze with fluttering sheer drapes. A large warm key light used, I've seen a gold reflector used, or warm gelled Fresnel. </p>

<p>See, it involves a lot more than most people thing it does ... and far too many jump right to taking the pictures intead of thinking through the initial intent which then is a guide to doing everything else afterwards.</p>

<p>What Photography needs is more highly experienced Art Directors providing input ... LOL!</p>

<p>-Marc</p>

<p><em>BTW, altering food to falsely enhance its attributes is a no, no ... major clients adhere to the law, and once a shoot is done, the producer must sign an legal document swearing no misconduct in preparing the food for photography. Trust me on this one, I've had to sign a few of these myself.</em></p>

<p> </p>

<p>About altering foods for photographs, this is what I learned from my classes, and Delores Custer also talks about it in her Food Styling book. If you're shooting for a commercial product, for instance a national ice cream chain, cereal company (like a photo for their box), frozen foods, etc., then you have to show the actual product in its true form without altering it. In other words, no fake ice cream for a national ice cream company, and no "stand-in" pizza for the frozen pizza box photo. But if you're shooting for a restaurant or magazine, you can do alterations to make the food look better, for instance using fake ice cream on a pie so that the ice cream doesn't melt. You still need to show their food, and in the case of the restaurant show it on the plate as it would be served to the customer, but you can undercook it for shine, put something under a scoop of rice to hold it upright perfectly, etc.</p>

<p>Great answers, thank you all so much. Marc, can you provide me a link to a "soft spiritual" presentation, I would love to see if I got your idea correctly and I think this would be the way the owner wants to go with his vegan, organic, natural,mostly raw, healthy but also stylish and very colorful food. Sadly, he sells his food in a bar parttime at the moment where the surroundings and furniture does not really fit his japanese and indian style, I think I have to restrict myself to closeups and some play with DOF with the plates and glasses this time, but I have to learn alot anyway and can come back later with new ideas and skills :-)<br /> <br /></p>

<p>Here you go Markus:<br /> <br /> Spiritual, etherial, light and airy ... interesting food imagery that creates a personality and character to the subject.<br /> <br /> For this feel, I like this photographer's work:</p>

<p>http://www.keikooikawa.com/portfolio/#141<br /> http://www.keikooikawa.com/portfolio/#108<br /> http://www.keikooikawa.com/portfolio/#106 ... http://www.keikooikawa.com/portfolio/#93 ... http://www.keikooikawa.com/portfolio/#53 ... http://www.keikooikawa.com/portfolio/#9</p>

<p>Also this photographer: http://www.michaelkohn.com/#/GALLERIES/FOOD%201/19</p>

<p>This photographer could also be a possibility (In fact, I think I worked with him once): http://www.studio212photo.com/photographs.html</p>

<p><strong>Now I am hungry : -)</strong> <strong>-Marc</strong></p>

<p>Have some of my Popeye food from this evening Marc, I will comment later on your links, thanks.</p><div></div>

<p>Markus - Nice shot, but what's going on with the knife and fork? There seems to be some sort of odd perspective distortion, or perhaps they are on some sort of uneven surface that slopes away to the right? The knife doesn't appear to be laying flat.</p>

<p>Tom M</p>

<p>Was hoping someone with Marc's expertise would pipe in here. With food photography you really need to have a sense of color design much like a graphic designer in setting up a scene. It's pretty much like painting a picture. And with most painters they start out with an overall sketch blocking out negative and positive spaces with harmonious color designs that don't fit within a strictly technical shooting style using specific strobes and reflectors. You really do need to start out with a specific vision with an eye for design to make it look professional.</p>

<p>Marcus, the links Marc provided were exactly what I thought your first photos of the walnuts and peppers resembled. You should dissect the color palette in each of those linked images to get an idea for creating dynamic color ambience for food. Note complimentary colors like pastel violet whites next to yellowish tungsten color casts.</p>

<p>This is what's making those images look high end. Color design is a course I took at the Art Institute of Houston back when I was studying to be a graphic artist. There's books on it you can look up. I have one called "Designer's Guide To Color 2" which shows swatches of designer color combinations.</p>

<p>I guess you do have to have a background in graphic design to pull off shots like the ones Marc linked to. I'm seeing the same style of color design photography in my small local town's ad agency that just opened up and started catering to high end clients or at least trying to turn mom and pop shops into that. This place I frequent has got some savvy ad people shooting their pastries they sell. You won't find one photo with R=G=B white balance.</p>

<p>http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.210288338973.166251.144005673973&type=3</p>

<p> </p>

<p>The fastest way to become better at any photographic category, it to look at the best work being done, more so than reading words by any of us that can't do it ourselves. Then ask us how to accomplish it with specific lighting techniques.</p>

<p>A few more interesting food shooters: </p>

<p>http://www.rgrantphotography.com/food-drink/?gclid=CK_0qazF8q0CFS6FQAodYXSvsg#</p>

<p>Check out this photographer's "Raw Food" work: http://francescotonelli.com/#/RAW/RAW/32/</p>

<p>Look at this design: http://evansung.com/food/</p>

<p>What is really interesting is that there aren't many decent photographers that<em> specialize</em> in Vegan Food Photography ... perhaps a real opportunity to distinguish oneself from other food photographers in a marketing sense. You might be onto something here Markus : -)</p>

<p>-Marc</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Marc, do you think the color palettes exhibited in those pro food shots were accidental according to the equipment the photographer happened to use or have on hand or intentional by design where they knew what piece of equipment would render that particular complementary and harmonious color result?</p>

<p>As a former art director myself I used to thumb through "Communication Arts" magazine to gain inspiration on just the graphic design elements used in a double page spread layout of some award winning brochure or corporate annual report and wondered how they came up with the layout grid and colors chosen for each graphic.</p>

<p>I knew from my training that required thumbnails being drawn up with colors blocked in with a Letraset or Stabilo layout marker (remember those?). That kind of design sensibility and planning is what I'm seeing in those food shots which means it requires the photographer having some training, discipline and sensitivity in seeing this way.</p>

<p>None of those shots look accurate to what I actually see viewing food anywhere under any kind of light. Those shots look designed to look pleasing. Now if we could only figure out which was designed with equipment used over what was done in post which is another rabbit hole to consider.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Tom, you have indeed well seen that the surface was not even to the right, I did a quick and sloppy 2 minutes preparation shot only before dinner since I handle only real food so far and want to eat it as long as it is fresh :-) The knive and fork have a special curved design of Swiss artist Bruno Weber but you can see some uncontrolled and irritating flash spill on the fork as well , a clear sign that I'm at the very beginning into this genre of photography and I do not have any illusion to master it any day, I know my limits in this regard at least....<br>

Marc, please give me a few days, I just lost my cat today and can't concentrate but I will come back answering to your postings. </p>

<p>Tim, while there is some retouching involved in any commercial shoot, it's usually isn't done by the photo studio. There are those dedicated just to that, and they are very expensive. So, most photographers strive to avoid the need, because if it costs the client oodles of money after the shoot, they won't be back for another session.</p>

<p>If it is a big food shoot, or something being filmed for a TV commercial, there are specialists in almost every category. In addition to the food stylists, there can be an art director (not the agency AD), and a prop master who coordinate everything in council with the ad agency people.</p>

<p>Prop masters have an over-all idea of the personality and character that is desired, usually from "Brand Personality" discussions with the ad agency people, and from a layout, plus sample tear sheets from various magazines, and go out shopping for all of the elements a day or two before a shoot.</p>

<p>Meanwhile the food stylist and/or their assistant shop for the food to be prepared, and bring in loads of groceries to select the choicest examples. Anything not used is donated to a local food bank or shelter after the shoot.</p>

<p>This is all assembled back at the studio and the set is then designed, coordinated, propped, and lighting blocked in ... often with a "Stand In" food subject ... when the actual shoot is ready to go, only then is the "Hero" food brought to the set. Food stylist usually make a number of Heros, so it can be replaced as different ideas are played with on set. </p>

<p>BTW, for a TV commercial, it is not unusual to have two DPs ... one of which specializes in just the food shots. So if you see a commercial with people at a Super-Bowl Party, and then some close-ups of a Pizza pull, it could be two different DPs. </p>

<p>Of course, this isn't what Markus is doing, so he has to wear many hats. The lesson is that prep is VERY important ... from the creative decisions I mentioned before, to designing and propping the set. It doesn't matter if you are working alone, or with an entourage of specialists, it can't be left to chance.</p>

<p>Then, there is the lighting ...</p>

<p>-Marc</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Marc, the portfolio at <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.keikooikawa.com/portfolio/#141" target="_blank">http://www.keikooikawa.com/portfolio/#141</a> awakes the most emotions in me and I would love to go in that direction with my coming photo shooting. While the other portfolios in you first link posting are technically perfect as well and do make me hungry, they don't move me that much otherwise :-) I will have to check the newer links. I found some better matching backgrounds in a second hand store yesterday for the Sushi plates compensating for the lacking interiour at the bar. Here comes a quick test shot after cooking some Fennel Garam Masal soup as entry today, thanks again for your generous help. </p><div></div>

<p>my attempt at a vegan Powerdrink</p><div></div>

<p>That's nice.</p>

<p>Echoing the pastel greens, interesting light direction suggesting a nice summer's day on the veranda, gentle fall off of focus to the supportive props ... love the Kiwi reflection on the glass. </p>

<p>Yummy photography!</p>

<p>Thanks Marc, now if I could constantly do it like that I would be really happy. I tried a quick "mise en place" today for a scrambled egg replacement with silk tofu but got stuck in the middle lacking the final inspiration for a meaningful and convincing concept. Time to pause shooting and read and think a bit more...</p><div></div>

<p>IMO, your lighting is too flat Markus. The items are evenly lit and subsequently lack dimensional qualities.</p>

<p>What success you had with the Kiwi shot was partially due to the play of shadow and light. </p>

<p>Next time you post a photo, step back when done and take a wide snap of your whole set-up. We'll be better able to help guide you that way.</p>

<p>-Marc</p>

<p> </p>