Pocket Wizard TT1 and TT5 don't work

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by ian_casement, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. This is just a continuation of more problems I'm having with this setup and it gets more bizarre and ridiculous !
    I just did a quick test of TTL using two remote SB800s on TT5's with an SB900 on a TT1 mounted on a D3x.
    First off.. strange pops of light for no apparent reason when setting up, not such an issue, but weird. Then there seems to be a tendancy to full dump on occasions or no sync at all on changes of ratio, which can be lived with, as long as it's not constant. I also had a case where the D3x wouldn't activate or wake up the SB900 from standby, no matter what shutter button, body light anything could fix apart from a shutdown and reset of the SB900.
    But then, even more bizarre.. after trying TTL with two remotes, I switch from TTL using channels A and B to using single channel A, now with both remote flashes set to Manual 1/4 power each.. and I get no sync with the remotes whatsoever - Nothing. The on camera flash fires 1/128 as set. But the remotes do nothing.
    I removed the on camera flash and tried that. Still no sync.
    Switch everything off, reset each of the remotes, reset camera, without SB900 in TT1 hotshoe, remotes now work. OK, add the SB900 flash - and the remotes don't work again.
    Turn everything off again and start from scratch.
    Remotes first, with the flashes switched on first, then the on camera SB900, then the TT1, then the camera and... still doesn't work!! The on camera flash works. The remotes don't.
    Am I getting angry and the client getting grumpy? No, because I'm just testing this and the only thing that's happening is I'm getting angry.. but just imagine !
    Remove the on camera flash, remotes still don't fire.
    Reset on camera TT1 without an on camera flash and the remotes fire.
    Don't expect to use a flash in the hotshoe of the on camera TT1 and use remote manual flash at the same time. It just doesn't work.
    This doesn't work with D3x, D2x, D7000.
    Does anybody have this working with any other camera ?
     
  2. If you can return it, just do it.
    Else, ... try to download the firware upgrade, and watch out for any new patches that could come again.
    I am really sorry to hear this, as I had high hopes for this system.
    Knowing little how CLS works, and a bit how PW did that, and seeing contradictions in written reviews about it, and PW lack of good explanation how this works, or what it did to the CLS, I was sceptical about it.
    Below are links to prior discussions on this subject.
    About SB400 and remote use of CLS flashes not in Remote mode, but rather in iTTL mode under PW control:
    http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00YEr9?start=10
    More if to use it or not, ... and I apologize for recommending the product without testing it myself:
    http://www.photo.net/photography-lighting-equipment-techniques-forum/00YDXo
    A bit about a review:
    http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00YAWZ
    ..even more of the same:
    http://www.photo.net/photography-lighting-equipment-techniques-forum/00Y5Q8
    About the firmware upgrade:
    http://www.photo.net/photography-lighting-equipment-techniques-forum/00Y3RM
     
  3. Hi Ian
    sorry to hear about your troubles
    I have no TT1 but use a TT5 as transmitter for 4 other TT5's as receivers, although not with a flash as master but a SU800 and recently a AC3 as master steering units. My flashes are SB800, SB600 and SB400, camera's D3 and D2x (does not work properly with D70S so far)
    To begin with, is all the software on your units up to date? There was an update due to problems with the SB900. Also keep in mind that if the Hyper Synch option on the units is swithed on (by selection through the software ultility) the Nikon FP synch does not work.
    Second, the flash that goes of when a unit is switched on is normal, I'd worry more if the unit does not give off a flash after switching the TT5 on.
    Also the switching-on sequence has to be followed very strictly. Although from what I read you're following the right procedure (including I assume not putting the remote flash units in 'remote' mode) I'll describe my routine.
    Everything is switched off, then for the transmitter first switch on the master flash (or in my case SU800), then the TT5/TT1, then the camera. The AC3 does not have an own powersource as it uses the one of the TT5 so it does not need to be switched on. If all goes well the light on the back will blink at regular intervals. For the receiver first the flash, then the TT5 and again the light on the TT5 will blink green. As I don't use one I don't know if the masterflash on the transmitter gives of a flash, but the receivers do if things work properly. I have noticed though that when the flash-units on the receivers are switched to manual they dont give off the 'trial' flash.
    Battery condition is very important I've read, although I use the alkaline ones I have lying around so not brand new ones every time I use the TT5's.
    First shot is for the system to synchronise so exposure should be out synch.
    There here been reports that when the TT1 goes in sleep mode (which apperently is does very easy for battery saving purposes), and you want to start shooting again, you have to start/reset the whole thing up again, so that's in accordance what you reported.
    You already mentioned the ABC channel selection, and as you probably know there is no need to synchonise the CH1 and CH2 when switching the units on if using only TT1 and TT5's.
    I don't know what you mean with resetting the units (apart from closing down and restarting them in the order mentioned before) but personally I stay away from the test/learn button and make a test shot with the camera to check if everything works properly.
    Well, this is everything I can come up with, sorry I can't help you any further as for me so far it has been an out of the box, upload software and shoot away expericence. Anyway HTH
    Paul
     
  4. Frank, Firmware is up to date on all units, I did that as soon as I openned the box, so that's not the issue.
    I have already gone through a setup procedure to establish the best offset value to use the cameras I have in order to set up the highest Hypersync speed and flash benefit I can get, which is up to 1/800s which is great, especially if you switch that to useable increase of output or distance gain, but I fully expected to be able to use this with the Hypersync/HSS crossover facility, but can't as the ControlTL software only allows 1/640s FP activation which reduces the Hypersync use to a max speed of 1/500s losing 0.6 stop benefit.
    Then, if using the Hypersync/HSS crossover with a flash on the camera's TT1 you get no flash between 1/320s and 1/500s as it doesn't work. There's a workaround which allows this to work, and I fully believe it should work, but doesn't, and it only works using the workaround for as long as the camera/flash don't go into standby.
    Then, you can't just use a standard flash using a pin and rail sync as a remote flash on a TT5 hotshoe, if you just want to sync an SB80 or SB28 or the like.
    Then, this.
    Paul, can you use a speedlight on your on camera TT5 in manual 1/128 and trigger a remote on a TT5 with that remote set to any manual level ? I can't and it's crazy.
     
  5. Ian, seems that you need to go back to square one to try and figure out if your problem is hardware malfunction, software bugs or user error.

    Make a factory reset of the TT1 and TT5 units.
    Start by trying old school triggering. Flash should be in manual. If you have older PWs try with them as well.
    Does it work or not?
    BTW, good professional work on your website.
     
  6. Thanks Pete,
    OK, at this point I'm happy to try anything and everything as I pretty much believe these things are rubbish and don't work. This problem is just the icing on the cake. :(
    I reset a TT1 and 2 TT5's, waiting for the 4 flashes each time to indicate they were factory reset. I'm using v2 build 100 firmware.
    I put an SB800 on a remote TT5, powered up the SB, Manual 1/4 power, then powered up the TT5, CH1 Zone A.
    I put an SB900 on a TT1 in the hotshoe of a D3x. Powered up the SB900 Manual 1/128, powered up the TT1 turned on the camera - Shutterspeed was 1/200s (1/250s - normal x-sync).
    Shot a few frames - All blank. Changed TT5 receiver and went through the whole procedure again. The same. All blank.
    Turned everything off, took the SB900 off the hotshoe of the TT1 on the D3x, turned everything back on again and the remote fired. (No flash in hotshoe/TT1 on camera)
    Now, can somebody else try this, as I've spent 30 years as a professional photographer and although I understand that user error can come into these things, often it takes somebody else to confirm the problem exists and isn't just a figment of imagination.
    Thanks for the compliment (it could do with updating) :)
     
  7. Thanks Pete,
    OK, at this point I'm happy to try anything and everything as I pretty much believe these things are rubbish and don't work. This problem is just the icing on the cake. :(
    I reset a TT1 and 2 TT5's, waiting for the 4 flashes each time to indicate they were factory reset. I'm using v2 build 100 firmware.
    I put an SB800 on a remote TT5, powered up the SB, Manual 1/4 power, then powered up the TT5, CH1 Zone A.
    I put an SB900 on a TT1 in the hotshoe of a D3x. Powered up the SB900 Manual 1/128, powered up the TT1 turned on the camera - Shutterspeed was 1/200s (1/250s - normal x-sync).
    Shot a few frames - All blank. Changed TT5 receiver and went through the whole procedure again. The same. All blank.
    Turned everything off, took the SB900 off the hotshoe of the TT1 on the D3x, turned everything back on again and the remote fired. (No flash in hotshoe/TT1 on camera)
    Now, can somebody else try this, as I've spent 30 years as a professional photographer and although I understand that user error can come into these things, often it takes somebody else to confirm the problem exists and isn't just a figment of imagination.
    Thanks for the compliment (it could do with updating) :)
     
  8. Hi Ian
    just did a test in the set up you requested inside, with remote approx 3, 5 and 8 meters from camera, also hidden behind the bench
    Master
    D3 + 24-85mm with TT5 C 1 Channel A
    and SB800 in Mastermode M Manual mode 1/128
    A Manual mode 1/4
    (also Manual Mode 1/16 and 1/2)
    Remote
    TT5 C 1 Channel A
    and SB 800 Remote off Manual Mode 1/8
    (also tried out TTL /FP)
    No problem, triggers as it should and output reduction is performed according to value selected on the Master flash/unit
    No matter the setting on the remote flash (TTL or Manual) the Master dictates the output
    But when reading your request and your latest explanation of how you set your flashes I wonder if you left the flash in the remote TT5 unit with the Remote setting in the flash OFF, and dialed in the reduced Manual setting for the remote in the A channel of the Masterflash
    Hope this helps
    Paul
     
  9. Hi Ian
    just reread your last message and with all due respect really get the impression it might be user error
    I completely miss in your extensive explanation any indication on putting the SB900 in Master Mode, and dialing in the various settings for the master and remote flash from the menu of the SB900
    And also you don't mention leaving the remote SB800 itself in Remote OFF, while at the same time you seem to want to dial in the strenghth of the output of the remote unit in the flash itself rather then steering it from the Master unit.
    Look forward to your feedback
    Paul
     
  10. This is the way I understand it:
    Remote slaves:
    1) All slave flashes that are to be controlled at the flash and not part of TTL needs to be set to manual and whatever power needed. The TT5 unit itself needs to be programmed so the “Use ControlTL Channel for Rx” is NOT selected. This way the TT5 works the same as an old style PW. This means you can hook up any flash or strobe to a TT5.
    2) All supported slave flashes that are to be controlled remotely needs to be in regular iTTL mode, same as when they are in the hotshoe as a single flash.
    On camera trigger:
    3) If you don't have a flash in the TT1/TT5 that is on the camera you will control your slave flash mode TTL/Manual and ratio or flash power from the camera.
    4) If you do have a flash in the TT1/TT5 that is on the camera you will need to set the flash to MASTER. You will now control your slave flash mode TTL/Manual and ratio or flash power from the master flash.
    Paul K, do you concur?
     
  11. Forgot this one:
    5) If you want to put your TT1/TT5 on a non supported camera and use it as an old style PW you need to set it to "Basic Trigger Mode". All remote slaves needs to be old style PWs or TT5 units that has “Use ControlTL Channel for Rx” NOT selected.
     
  12. Hi Paul, thanks for trying that, but it's not what I'm trying to do.
    What you explain works OK with my setup, but it fires pre-flashes even though the flashes are in manual. I'm going to be using up to 8 other remotes which are powered by either Wein's or built-in PEC's which will all trigger at the wrong time if I use any sort of pre-flash system, so this is trying to be avoided.
    All I want to do with the TT1/TT5 is simply trigger an on camera flash and remote flashes using a basic trigger mode in manual without any pre-flashes. I specifically don't have the on camera flash set as a master and I don't have the remotes set to TTL. I just want them to trigger in plain simple manual mode.
    I can use the remotes triggered by the TT1/TT5, each set to manual mode, but I then can't add an on camera flash should I need to and trigger that at the same time, if I add an on camera flash, then only the on camera flash will fire.
     
  13. Pete,
    '4) If you do have a flash in the TT1/TT5 that is on the camera you will need to set the flash to MASTER. You will now control your slave flash mode TTL/Manual and ratio or flash power from the master flash.'
    That's what I'm not doing as I'm trying to avoid the pre-flash.
    It appears that you can't have both an on camera flash set Manually as well as remotes, even though the remotes will work fine in their native manual mode and triggered by the ControlTL channel.
    Thanks for your help, that clears things up a bit.
     
  14. Ian, if I understand you correctly everything works as you want until you put an on camera flash onto the TT1?
    As a workaround you could put some tape over the hotshoe contacts on the SB900 and hook it up to the camera's pc sync. Or maybe if you cover all contacts except the center pin and see if the SB900 will fire in manual mounted on the TT1.
    PS. In your case I would try to contact LPA Design directly in the US. Maybe you are experiencing some software issues they are familiar with. The Nikon version is still fairly new.
    U.S. customer service: 914-347-3300
     
  15. I don't own the TT5 and TT1, yet. But based on what little research I have done I thought the remote flashes were to be set to TTL/iTTL mode. Flash is then controlled via the AC3/SU800/SB900 on-camera. To avoid pre-flashes, use either the AC3 or SU800. Manual settings are controlled via the AC3/SU800/SB900 and not on the remote flash. I don't see how the system could work if the remote units are set to anything but "0n". (i.e., not master, not remote, just "on".)
     
  16. Pete,
    This was one issue, correct.
    Further than just that was using an on camera flash, (or on bracket flash, without remotes this time) and using hypersync with the on camera flash. It doesn't want to do it.
    In order to set an on camera flash to use hypersync, you need to go through a workaround and setup routine and do your shots without allowing the camera to go into standby. When it does, it stops working again and you need to start the workaround again.
    I emailed PW over a week ago (twice) about this and have still had no reply, still waiting.. :(
    I found the PC socket solution, as I had that in mind for use with another set of radio triggers for the other eight lights. I should have realised to put a sync cable in there for an on camera flash instead, but it just seemed so logical to be able to use the TT1 hotshoe for a flash.
     
  17. Douglas,
    I don't know if the pre-flashes are from the on camera SB900 or the remote SB800's for sure. I thought the on camera pre-flashes - like the SU800's were quenched and radio was used instead. Whatever it is, using a Master controller with remotes in Manual there's pre-flashes of sorts whether they're command signals or pre-flashes, I don't know.
     
  18. Quote :What you explain works OK with my setup, but it fires pre-flashes even though the flashes are in manual. I'm going to be using up to 8 other remotes which are powered by either Wein's or built-in PEC's which will all trigger at the wrong time if I use any sort of pre-flash system, so this is trying to be avoided. Unquote
    I think I now understand what you mean. Basically using one radio transmitter on camera to trigger a remote radio receiver with the flash in Manual, and have that remote trigger a number of other flash units with an opticall signal. In that case the PW TT1/TT5 units are not suited and way to expensive for the job.
    Quote: All I want to do with the TT1/TT5 is simply trigger an on camera flash and remote flashes using a basic trigger mode in manual without any pre-flashes. I specifically don't have the on camera flash set as a master and I don't have the remotes set to TTL. I just want them to trigger in plain simple manual mode. Unquote
    Only way I know by experience to do so would be using the Master flash in Manual, without a PW TT1/TT5 and putting the remote SB800's in SU4 mode. Of course you will have to set everything manually and as said the TT1/TT5 units are not fit for this job. Also the triggering will be optical and less reliable then when using radio.
    Quote: I can use the remotes triggered by the TT1/TT5, each set to manual mode, but I then can't add an on camera flash should I need to and trigger that at the same time, if I add an on camera flash, then only the on camera flash will fire.Unquote
    The TT1/TT5 will work with the PW PLus II and other older PW units which are strictly manual so I assume that in those cases the pre-flashes are ignored. Here's a video with in the second half a shoot with mixed use of the TT1/TT5's and PW Plus II's. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebz6Kow-ywc I don't have the older ones so can't comment or test myself, but maybe it might be worth looking into those or the cheaper imitation ones.
    For me personally reason for getting the TT5's was the extended range while maintaining TTL compared to Nikon CLS infrared as going strictly manual was never my intention. Also being able to change the settings on remote units from the master unit (flash/SU800/AC3) for me was a major lure.
    But for shooting manual and by optical triggering, it seems to me the TT1/TT5's are not the tools for the/your job. In case you insist on triggering by radio you would be better of with the 'older' PW Plus II's or cheaper imitations, or if Radiopopper JRX
    My two cents
     
  19. An interesting thread, because to my knowledge these products for Nikon are not yet released. That is true where I live. PocketWizard had lots and lots of problems with the Canon versions and it seems like it is a repeat with the Nikon as well, although I have been assured this is not the case from beta testers.
    Where did you buy them?
     
  20. Hi Steven
    the TT1/TT5 for Nikon have been availible since december last year. They were a.o. announced on the site of Rob Galbraith http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10057-11055
    I can based on my own experiences ( and not on what I read on the internet) confirm what the beta testers told you i.e. that they work flawlessly. I have aquired 5 TT5's and a AC3 since last december and although I'm only slowly learning to use them to their full potentitial I find them a major tool to further help me solve some of the tecgnical problems I sometimes encounter.
    Got them at Calumet in Amsterdam, but from what I read they are readily availible in at least Europe, US and Canada, Australia and Asia. B&H has them in their catalog http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/605715-REG/PocketWizard_801_143_MiniTT1_Radio_Slave_Transmitter.html
     
  21. My units are from the UK. I've been watching development of these with interest over the years with specific interest in the hypersync and any increase in output available (like there is with the Canon versions).
    Like the lack of extra output that the Nikon system has compared to Canon. The fact you can sync remote flashes in whatever mode including manual and an on camera flash in whatever mode including manual, yet you can't sync both on camera and remote flashes together at the same time are failings. (CLS can, PW can't - and I was sold that they were the same over radio).
    Hypersync too fails as it only works correctly when syncing remote units and then only to a limited degree imposed by PW (1/500s rather than the full benefit your system can offer, mine is 1/800s).. This works fine on camera too, yet, not just restricted within the constraints of the PW system but by having to use a workaround as well, which shouldn't be neccessary.
    Other things not working like being able to sync a pin and rail basic speedlight in manual on a TT5's hotshoe mount whether using ControlTL transmission or standard transmission with remotes set to act like a Plus II or Multimax is annoying. PW say that a TT1 can transmit that channel and a TT5 can recive that channel, but transmit and receive on that same channel don't work together in this way. It's annoying because when you need to use it, you know you're going to be stumped, and that's just a simple function.
    Where people are excited by being able to control flash units over radio, I've been doing this for years with Quantum so this part of the excitement is less persuasive for me, I'm more interested in using their benefits, as they exist for me and the way they're needed to work.
    I'm no beta tester, and my experience up to now hasn't been flawless .
     
  22. Here is a user report from the UK. He is able to sync at 1/8000.
    http://glyndewisblog.com/2011/02/08/review-pocket-wizard-mini-tt1-and-flex-tt5-for-nikon/
     
  23. You need to be careful not to confuse Hypersync with High Speed Sync.
    High Speed Sync is the same as the Nikon FP mode sync and suffers from the same loss of around -2.6 stops pretty much right throughout the shutter range to 1/8000s. Hypersync is the PW derivative and shifts the flash and shutter sync to some optimal point to suit your flash. With this, you can get either greater range, more flash on subject or darker backgrounds. Even a combination of all three utilising the extent of the advantage afforded by your own flash and camera combination. In my circumstances, I can get either an extra 20ft range or 1.6 stops more flash on the subject or darken the background by 1.6 stops. Beyond this point (1/800s for me) image quality suffers, shutter curtains get seen and range reduces.
    Being capable of 1/8000s sync is fine, but there needs to be some reason or benefit to do this. Typically people sacrifice output for larger apertures using HSS and think that they can darken backgrounds more at the same time, which isn't the case.
     
  24. Pocket Wizard admits switching to FP at higher shutter speeds, let say at some 1/320, or 1/500, some claim 1/800 sec. depending on the camera. Faster than that Hypersync is the same as FP. The FP technology in Nikon FP flashes plays here. After FP takes over, there is no special magic that people seem to attribute to the PW Hypersync.
     
  25. You can set the switch over point between Hypersync and FP mode easy enough in the software, or not use FP mode at all if you can sync cleanly with Hypersync. You can decide. I'd rather not let any 'auto' switching take place by settings applied by PW as I like to know just what I'm getting and what result to expect.
    I'd like to push the Hypersync as far as possible because I never use HSS anyway. My cutoff point is 1/800s and after this I would like to activate HSS as a precaution. Unfortunately this is restricted by the software to a 1/640s cutoff, meaning a maximum 1/500s Hypersync capability. So instead I have HSS switched off and I'll have to watch I don't go beyond.
     
  26. Oops! Sorry about that. BTW, I just came home with a set for myself. Getting ready to test them. -Doug
     
  27. Unfortunately the new PWs suffer from featuritis - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Featuritis
    They should have stuck with matching the features of CLS but with higher reliability and ease of use.
    Then when everything is stable and works perfectly with all cameras and flashes that are CLS capable it's time to release the product. Many people would have been very satisfied with this product.
    After a while when they have enough feedback and the products have been in the field for real it's time to think about the nice-to-have-features and how to implement them so they are easy to use.
    For professional use you need equipment that just works. There is no time fiddling with stuff that doesn't work and that's why their users bought the pocketwizards in the first place instead of an ebay trigger.
     
  28. Douglas - Good for you! Enjoy your 'Peak of Inflated Expectations' as you'll very soon possibly be experiencing the 'Trough of Disillusionment' :)
    Hype Cycle - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle
     
  29. Ian, my expectations aren't really inflated. :) I hope. I wanted radio triggers that allow me to use TTL, when I choose. I think I got that. Can't trigger additional flashes via the SU800, but I can buy more TT5s, if I need to.
     
  30. "Can't trigger additional flashes via the SU800" - why can't you ? What is stopping you ? - perhaps there is a practical limit of diminishing benefit, but you can add as many CLS remote flashes as you wish.
     
  31. Frank, how?
    Have you used the SU800 with the MiniFlex? What were your settings? I was not able to trigger an SB600 remotely with the SU800 installed on the MiniFlex. No problem with the SU800 on-camera. The MiniFlex appears to disable the CLS.
     
  32. Sorry Douglas,
    I took your statement out of PW context.
    Yes the PW does weird things to the CLS while it should not, unless they figure out how to do it to make it reliable and simple to use.
    Perhaps remote CLS flashes under PW control should also work in Remote flash mode. Changing remote flash mode and taking over the exposure and trigering, is something that PW changed the original CLS operation but did not provide sufficiently robust or reliable substitute of both trigering and metering. Something that PW will need to work longer, to make it usable. PW does not explain the basic idea how their modified CLS into PW modes work, so perhaps they have some good idea about it, but not ready for the prime yet.
     
  33. The pocketwizard communicates with the flash through the hotshoe. That's why the flash can't be set to Remote (where the flash communicates only optically).
     
  34. Not for the prime yet...
    Honest discussion of the successes and failings of these things would go a long way to getting them working properly, rather than the fire-fighting which appears to be take place after a product is wrong and the customer is on fire.
    When I hear over enthusiastic beta-testers extoling the virtues of the latest gizmo without actually thoroughly testing it, or skirting around the problems which really do exist, and worse, find the product to be 'perfect' with no shortcomings - it just makes me see red.
    Honestly declaring there's a problem is far better than misleading customers.
     
  35. I am not understanding something in this discussion. TBH, I have only played around with my new Mini and 2 tt5s for an hour or so. TTL exposure appears to work as does manual flash via the PW system. That is all I bought them for. Are there advertised features that don't work? At least I don't have to put a sock on my flash! :) -Doug
     
  36. Not everything is done TTL, very little actually - but it's useful to have. The problem was if you just wanted to use manual flash adjusting the settings on the flashes you can't if you want to use on camera and remote flash.
    If you fit a flash in the hotshoe of the on camera TT1 set to manual and use a remote flash set to manual flash on a TT5, you can't get both to trigger at the same time. You can only have one, or the other and there's no software switch to make this happen.
    The knock on effect of not being able to do this is that if you're trying to sync with a multitude of other lights via slave cells in basic sync. you can't.
     
  37. I should add that this is because the PW 'manual' implementation via ControlTL issues pre-flashes or command flashes which causes the remote slave cells to fire incorrectly.
     
  38. OK, I understand how pre-flashes would trigger remotes early. Of course, if they were nikon remotes with SU-4 capability, I think that configuration would work.
    As to the other "issue", you appear to be trying to use the Flex in a way for which it wasn't designed. If all of your remote flashes were attached to TT5s and the on-camera flash was attached to a MiniFlex, then could you not control all flashes in manual via the on-camera flash? Of course, the on-camera flash must be set to Master.
    Perhaps I need to reread the thread, as I am missing something.
     
  39. I want to just dumb down the setup to the lowest common factor of radio trigger and receiver with a flash on camera in manual and all the remotes in manual too, but it just doesn't work. I'm not trying to do anything beyond the TT1/TT5 capabilities at all, this is just basic stuff.
    I can't guarantee that I'll be exclusively using speedlights with SU-4 mode - which would work regardless - but there may be Quantums, Lumedynes, Monolights and Studio packs all involved as well.
    It's a shame, as I bought these instead of a set of Yongnuos to benefit from the extra features as well, but the basic radio triggering just doesn't work, so I'm back where I started.
    This from the PW Quick Guide > Manual Flash.
    Remote Flash with or without i-TTL flash on camera
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    1. Slide MiniTT1 Transmitter onto camera
    2. If desired, slide Nikon i-TTL Speedlight onto MiniTT1 radio
    3. Make sure all your PocketWizard radios are on the same channel and take pictures normally.
    Note: Manual remote flashes are not calculated as part of the i-TTL exposure.
    Adjust your exposure of FEC to compensate accordingly.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    It Doesn't Work. Either the remotes don't flash, or the on camera flash doesn't fire. It will work if you follow a workaround, but then it doesn't work again after the camera is started after it's gone into standby.
     
  40. Ian, as I'm sure you know the setup you are trying to accomplish actually works fine with regular PWs.
    One on camera flash in the hotshoe in manual mode or auto thyristor, one PW triggered by pc sync from the on camera flash or pc sync on the camera budy. Then a number of PW triggered flash/strobes hooked up to the hotshoe or via pc sync. And then a number of optically triggered slaves.
    I hook my PWs to the flash with velcro. That way I can put them on stands and they will fire as slaves or if I want on camera flash I just put it in the hotshoe and attached PW will fire the slaves.
     
  41. Here's an image showing how I hook the PWs to hotshoe flashes.
    00YGpJ-334793684.jpg
     
  42. Yeah, I know I could use regular radios for this. I have about 16 Quantum receivers and I could easily have used those, but I'm specifically shrinking my kit and reducing mounts/cables/velcro fitting etc.. to fit more in flight cases. I don't generally use Speedlights, but the hotshoe fittings of the Flex system appealed along with the reduction of cabling. A set of Yongnuo's could do what I want and by all accounts what I want to do should be possible in triggering speedlights via their hotshoe's on these PW's, but it isn't.
    The main problem here is getting the camera based flash working at the same time as the remotes are, nothing more. It's possible to make this happen by using a workaround but it is unreliable as it keeps on dropping out. PW just need to fix it. Until then, another workaround is needed.
     
  43. This from the PW Quick Guide > Manual Flash.
    Remote Flash with or without i-TTL flash on camera
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    1. Slide MiniTT1 Transmitter onto camera
    2. If desired, slide Nikon i-TTL Speedlight onto MiniTT1 radio
    3. Make sure all your PocketWizard radios are on the same channel and take pictures normally.
    Note: Manual remote flashes are not calculated as part of the i-TTL exposure.
    Adjust your exposure of FEC to compensate accordingly.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    It Doesn't Work. Either the remotes don't flash, or the on camera flash doesn't fire. It will work if you follow a workaround, but then it doesn't work again after the camera is started after it's gone into standby.​
    You say it doesn't work, but it would if the remotes had their own TT5/PWII and you set the on-camera flash (on top of the TT1) as master. That is how it is designed to work, no?
     
  44. It doesn't work. It works using a flash as a master, but I'm not wanting that. I want Manual.
    I can get what I want by using a workaround which allows a manual flash on camera and manual flashes on remote TT5's, but that's unreliable. I does work, and the system is capable of supporting it, but it doesn't maintain sync.
    If I have remote flashes on TT5's set to Manual and nothing on the TT1 on camera - what's commanding them - apart from nothing? Then with that already working, I should be able to just put a flash on the TT1 and trigger that it in Manual too.. but I can't.
     
  45. This from here on Fickr: http://www.flickr.com/groups/pocketwizards/discuss/72157625949418449/#comment72157626119982144
    I got a reply from PW:

    Hi Brett,

    Thanks for your inquiry. I've had some experience using a setup similar to what you've described, but not specifically using Cybersyncs. With the default settings, a MiniTT1 or FlexTT5 on-camera should trigger a flash or other device with only the center sync pin regardless of the shutter speed. I can confirm that a MiniTT1 attached to our D3 will trigger one of our Plus II or MultiMAX radios attached to the top shoe at any shutter speed. Those radios are triggered in a way very similar to any kind of "dumb" radio trigger.

    To troubleshoot further: Do you have a manual flash with a hot shoe you could try in place of the Cybersync? If it works, that'll tell us it's something specific to the Cybersync transmitter causing the issue.

    Even PW are saying a simple pin and rail sync should work ! Something is definately wrong.
    .
     
  46. From my basic knowledge of the system. If you want to shoot manual flash, you must have one of the following in the TT1 on the camera, AC3,SU800,SB900. I guess an SB800 would work, too. Not sure. The on-camera flash/SU800 must be set to master. Each remote flash must be attached to a TT5. The remote flashes (SB900,800,700,600) should be set to on (not master, not slave) and in TTL mode.
    Then, via the on-camera flash,SU800 or AC3, you set/control the 3 groups and master flash (if desired). They can be set to TTL or manual. If you are trying to trigger other flashes via a slave unit, it won't work. If you set the on-camera flash to other than master, it won't work (consistently, per your experience.)
    So, in my example, the system works as intended. In your situation, it doesn't work, but it wasn't designed to work that way. If it did, that would be great. But, to say the system is faulty, is a stretch, IMHO.
    I just got back from my local shop with an AC3 and another TT5. I hope to play with them tomorrow. I have two SB900s and 2 Sb600s plus an SU800. Got to go to work so i can pay for the new PW stuff!
     
  47. There's a Wiki on the PW website on the Nikon TT1/TT5 which lists all sorts of things which don't work. It's surprising how many of these are specific to an SB900 on and off camera, including things which I've directly discovered. You only need to look at these and wonder why one flash works and why another doesn't ? This sort of thing should just not occur, especially when you rely on continuity between all sorts of different lighting equipment. You don't expect to swap an SB800 for an SB900 because the SB900 doesn't work, or to employ a workaround to make that SB900 work.
     
  48. Wiki here: http://wiki.pocketwizard.com/index.php?title=Nikon_Compatibility
     
  49. Ian Casement , Feb 23, 2011; 12:34 p.m.
    "Quote" It doesn't work. It works using a flash as a master, but I'm not wanting that. I want Manual.
    I can get what I want by using a workaround which allows a manual flash on camera and manual flashes on remote TT5's, but that's unreliable. I does work, and the system is capable of supporting it, but it doesn't maintain sync.
    If I have remote flashes on TT5's set to Manual and nothing on the TT1 on camera - what's commanding them - apart from nothing? Then with that already working, I should be able to just put a flash on the TT1 and trigger that it in Manual too.. but I can't. "unquote"
    Hi Ian
    I have been following this thread and your repeated complaints about the TT5 with interest, but I must admit I'm kind of lost on what your complaining about. So this morning I did some additional tests to the ones I did before in all kind of different set ups to find out myself (rather then reading what other people say they read)
    Tech info : D3, 24-85 zoom, SB 800 (master), 2x SB 600 (remote mode OFF), Hensel 500 Economy (monobloc) with built in photocell (so cheapo optical trigger) 3x TT5 (oncamera C1, Ch A, remote nr 1 C1, Ch A, remote 2 C1, Ch B)
    Set up 1: D3 with TT5 (no flash mounted) ,off camera remote 1 with SB600 M 1/16, off camera remote 2 with SB600 M 1/8
    Result: remotes work, but settings on the SB600's dont influence the output. I could not check it with my LunasixF (empty battery after years of not using it) but it seems to me output is full power so M 1/1
    Set up 2: D3 with TT5 with SB800 (Master) M Manual 1/64, A Manual 1/32, B Manual 1/32, off camera remote 1 Ch A with SB600 M 1/16, off camera 2 Ch B with SB600 M 1/8
    Result: SB 800 M 1/64 on camera works (also at higher settings), but setting on the SB 800 nor on the sB600's dont influence the output of the remotes. They keep blasting away at full power so M 1/1
    Set up 3: D3 with TT5 with SB800 (Master) with settings from the Master steering menu M Manual 1/64, A Manual 1/32, B Manual 1/32, off camera remote 1 Ch A with SB600 TTL, off camera 2 Ch B with SB600 TTL
    Result: SB 800 (Master) with settings from the Master steering menu M 1/64 works (also at higher settings), remotes work according to Manual settings from Master Steering menu
    Set up 4: D3 with TT5 with SB800 (Master) with settings from the Master steering menu M M 1/64, A Manual 1/32, B Manual 1/32, off camera remote 1 Ch A with SB600 TTL, off camera remote 2 Ch B with SB600 TTL, Hensel 500 Economy 1/4 power (optical trigger)
    Result: SB 800 (Master) with settings from the Master steering menu M Manual 1/64 works (also at higher or lower Manual settings), remotes work according to Manual settings from Master Steering menu, Hensel Economy 500 works (max 1/250) as the M setting of the Master prevents any of the Nikon flash units from sending pre flashes
    Set up 5: D3 with TT5 with SB800 (Master) with settings from the Master steering menu M M 1/64, A TTL, B TTL, off camera remote 1 Ch A with SB600 TTL, off camera remote 2 Ch B with SB600 TTL, Hensel 500 Economy 1/4 power (optical trigger)
    Result: SB 800 (Master) with settings from the Master steering menu M M 1/64 works (also at higher or lower Manual settings), remotes work according to TTL settings from Master steering menu, Hensel Economy 500 does not works (probably off synch due to TTL pre flash from the remote Nikon flash units)
    Set up 6: D3 with TT5 with SB800 (Master) with settings from the Master steering menu M TTL, A TTL, B TTL, off camera remote 1 Ch A with SB600 M 1/16, off camera remote 2 Ch B with SB600 M 1/8, Hensel 500 Economy 1/4 power(optical trigger)
    Result: (as could be expected from the results of set up 2) SB 800 (Master) with settings from the Master steering menu TTL works (also at higher or lower TTL settings), remotes work do not according to TTL settings from Master Steering menu nor Manual setting on the units themselves but give full power flashes, Hensel Economy 500 does not work (probably off synch due to TTL pre flash from the master and remote Nikon flash units)
    Set up 7: D3 with TT5 with SB800 (Master) with settings from the Master steering menu M TTL, A TTL, B TTL, off camera remote 1 with SB600 Ch A TTL, off camera remote 2 with SB600 Ch B TTL, Hensel 500 Economy 1/4 power
    Result: (as could be expected from the results of set up 4) SB 800 (Master) with settings from the Master steering menu TTL works (also at higher or lower TTL settings), remotes work according to TTL settings from Master Steering menu, Hensel Economy 500 does not work (probably off synch due to TTL pre flash from the remote Nikon flash units)
    Set up 8: D3 with TT5 ( no SB800 as Master) , off camera remote 2 Ch B with SB600 M 1/8, Hensel 500 Economy 1/4 power(optical trigger)
    Result: (as could be expected from the results of set up 2) Remotes work do not according to Manual setting on the units themselves but give full power flashes, Hensel Economy 500 does work ( as to be expected since there is no pre remote Nikon flash units)
    It seems to me I covered all of the situations/set ups possible including some you mentioned ( or I think you mentioned), and I can't find any fault.
    Important though seem whether you use a setting on the master or remote Nikon flash causing or avoiding pre flash (TTL seems the culprit) and whether you have set Nikon remotes at TTL (or they will blow away on full power no matter what). In the above settings steering the settings on camera flash from the Master menu are in my experience fool proof to avoid the on camera SB800 or other remote Nikon flashes to emit any preflashes
    When using Manual ( all Nikon flash units steered from the Master flash unit as Manual) optical triggers have no problems as there is no preflash ( so no SU-4 thingies needed). You probably will find something to complain about that the PW's might not work with other brand radio triggers but having no experience with the cheapo eBay radio triggers of Radiopoppers I have no personal experience with that so can't comment
    Just for fun I also did some tests with the AC3 instead of a flash on the oncamera TT5. In line with the above, if the AC3 is set on M ( one of the three settings of the on top swithches) the Hensel will flash in synch, if set on TTL the Hensel does not work in synch, (probably off synch due to TTL pre flash from the remote Nikon flash units)
    Seems the problems you have might be user error, or problems with the SB900, or maybe too high expectations and using them in a way they were not intended for (although my test set ups IMHO cover most of them). I would therefor welcome to hear from some one who did some tests with the above set-ups, using a SB900 instead of a SB800. (I won't be buying a SB 900 due to size and because the SB800's serve my purposes well, and sometimes can be had secondhand for astonishingly low price while still in very good condition)
    But my conclusion for the moment is the TT5's do work ( no experience with the TT1)
    My two cents
     
  50. BTW camera settings were 1/25oth at F8.
    I didn't try the Cybersynch or whatever it's called as I always use FP synch with my Nikon units and am not likely to use any other brand of flash units shooting at higher shutter speeds
    Paul
     
  51. I appreciatre you trying this, but far from pointing out the obvious.. your's are not working either! You highlighted an area where even yours are doing crazy things !
    Paul K wrote:
    Set up 1: D3 with TT5 (no flash mounted) ,off camera remote 1 with SB600 M 1/16, off camera remote 2 with SB600 M 1/8
    Result: remotes work, but settings on the SB600's dont influence the output. I could not check it with my LunasixF (empty battery after years of not using it) but it seems to me output is full power so M 1/1
    Set up 2: D3 with TT5 with SB800 (Master) M Manual 1/64, A Manual 1/32, B Manual 1/32, off camera remote 1 Ch A with SB600 M 1/16, off camera 2 Ch B with SB600 M 1/8
    Result: SB 800 M 1/64 on camera works (also at higher settings), but setting on the SB 800 nor on the sB600's dont influence the output of the remotes. They keep blasting away at full power so M 1/1

    ...and I thought I had problems.. HELLO !!!

    Your remotes are not doing what you have them set for.. In set 1. They're blasting away. In Set 2. They're blasting away.
    In my setup of 'set 1' my remotes do as they're set to do - yours don't.
    In my setup of 'set 2' my remotes do what they're set to.. Manual 1/4.. and not what the on camera 'Master' has them set to (M 1/128). Which like your setup wouldn't be expected anyway, but you would expect them to fire at what they WERE set to. (Your case M1/32, M1/64 ).
    Your results are worse than what I'm getting. I set my remotes to 1/4 and if they fire they fire at 1/4.
    My initial post highlighted that from going from a TTL setup to a Manual setup first of all I couldn't get remotes A and B to sync at all.. and then they did, after resetting everything and removing the on camera flash. I just tried this again from scratch, starting first by setting 2 remotes at Manual 1/4 power with no on-camera flash.. it worked. Then, add an on camera flash, set it to TTL, adjust the remotes to TTL 1/4 power each.. and this worked (as expected using Master and TTL remote settings). Then, I reverted back to Manual on all flashes and only the on camera flash fired. I took off the on camera flash and then the remotes now fired.
    So tell me now..
    I highlighted that I can't set my on camera flash to Manual and my remote flashes to Manual and have them firing at the same time, and you just illustrated that you can't have your on camera flash set to Manual and your remotes doing what they should be doing - as you set them. Yours are firing at 100% uncontrollably, where mine just don't fire!
    You've already said:
    But my conclusion for the moment is the TT5's do work ( no experience with the TT1)​
    How can you tell me there's nothing wrong with the problems you just pointed out?
     
  52. I am finding this whole conversation of interest (as I am considering the purchase of TT1, AC3 and a couple of TT5) but rather confusing.
    If I have the TT1 and AC3 in my shoe mount, can I control either an SB800 or SB900 remotely if they are on a TT5 device. I am assuming that the SB800 or SB900 is set to remote mode. Can I use them in TTL mode or manual mode using the AC3 to direct the power output?
    If I have the TT1 and an SB900 (in master mode) sitting on my camera hotshoe, can I control either an SB800 or SB900 (both in remote mode) remotely using either TTL mode or manual mode. In this approach I would use the mode function on the SB900 to determine whether the remote works either in TTL mode or manual mode.
    If the FP mode on the camera is a problem, I would be happy to turn it off.
    Thanks.
    I have a D700 and hopefully, soon, the next gen D700!))
     
  53. Hi Ian
    sorry to temper your enthousiastic reply, but are you really telling me that you check the functioning of your TT1/TT5 flashes by eyesight only?
    I do so by taking pictures and thus actually seeing on the LCD of the camera what worked, and what not, and if it worked, how. Of course I have a card in the camera, so I have the pictures to show for.
    So my statement on the strenght of the flash isn't based on whether I saw if it did work and whether the output seemed very bright, but on the over-exposure of the area's the flashes were aimed at, compared to the way these area's were exposed when lit by a flash with reduced output. I wanted to use my flash meter, as some figures would have been nice, and get an actual reading to compare the different outputs, but based on the pictures I already had a clear idea.
    Also you are comparing my shoot of a TT5 without master to your shoot with a master flash ( and remotes steered by the master)?
    The situation you described you worked with matches my set up nr 3 were the Master dictates the output of the remotes.
    Set up 3: D3 with TT5 with SB800 (Master) with settings from the Master steering menu M Manual 1/64, A Manual 1/32, B Manual 1/32, off camera remote 1 Ch A with SB600 TTL, off camera 2 Ch B with SB600 TTL
    Result: SB 800 (Master) with settings from the Master steering menu M 1/64 works (also at higher settings), remotes work according to Manual settings from Master Steering menu.
    It is clearly different from the situation I describe in set up 1 which you use to compare your findings with, where the remotes are triggered but their output is not steered by the Master.
    Set up 1: D3 with TT5 (no flash mounted) ,off camera remote 1 with SB600 M 1/16, off camera remote 2 with SB600 M 1/16
    Result: remotes work, but settings on the SB600's dont influence the output. I could not check it with my LunasixF (empty battery after years of not using it) but it seems to me output is full power so M 1/1
    Note: Did a reshoot tonight using SB800's as remote flashes, and now the Manual settings on the flash units themselves dictate the strength of the output correctly. The SB600's though do not give a consistent result and sometimes give a full dump, sometimes reduced output.
    Also I miss in your comment on my findings on what I thought was amongst your major gripes against the TT1/TT5 when using a flash as Master with a TT1/TT5 on camera, i.e. the on camera flash in your repeated findings would not work. As you can see in my testresults, in my experience it works if set from the Master menu as M Manual and selected output. Have you now found the proper settings as well, or could you please in detail describe your settings so they can be repeated and compared to my set up?
    Your last setup is not really clear to me. Did you set up the on camera flash on Manual without the TT1/TT5 as well as the remotes on Manual without the TT5's? Then the whole discussion on the TT1/TT5 would be irrelevant as it would be simply be triggering by optic impulse.I must note though that if the remote flashes stay on the TT5's they don't work.But that set up doesn't seem logical to me anyway, why mount flashes on TT5 if those aren't used anyway. A cheaper alternative would be the AS-19 or AS 21 foot.
    Or did you have the on camera flash with a TT1/TT5 as Master with M Manual, and the remotes on a TT5 with the flash units themselves in Manual and remote off? Tried that one in my set up 2.
    Set up 2: D3 with TT5 with SB800 (Master) M Manual 1/64, A Manual 1/32, B Manual 1/32, off camera remote 1 Ch A with SB600 M 1/16, off camera 2 Ch B with SB600 M 1/8
    Result: SB 800 M 1/64 on camera works (also at higher settings), but setting on the SB 800 nor on the sB600's dont influence the output of the remotes. They keep blasting away at full power so M 1/1. Note: As stated earlier in this post, with SB800's the remote follow the settings dialed on the remote SB800's, not the Master
    Please also note that in my tests, while using TT5's on both Master en remotes, when shooting the Master flash in M Manual, the remote SB600's with Remote OFF and in TTL, and steered by the Master A Manual 1/16 for remote 1 in Ch 1 and B Manual 1/8 for remote 2 in Ch 1, both remotes work with reduced output as dialed in on the Master
    See my set up 4
    Set up 4: D3 with TT5 with SB800 (Master) with settings from the Master steering menu M M 1/64, A Manual 1/32, B Manual 1/32, off camera remote 1 Ch A with SB600 TTL, off camera remote 2 Ch B with SB600 TTL, Hensel 500 Economy 1/4 power (optical trigger)
    Result: SB 800 (Master) with settings from the Master steering menu M Manual 1/64 works (also at higher or lower Manual settings), remotes work according to Manual settings from Master Steering menu, Hensel Economy 500 works (max 1/250) as the M setting of the Master prevents any of the Nikon flash units from sending pre flashes
    And the 'fault' of the remote SB600's which give what seems The SB600 an inconsistent result, sometimes a full dump, sometimes reduced output when triggered by the TT1/TT5 without being steered by a Master to me is not really a problem as I since I use a D3, the SU800 or AC3 will always be used when using TT5's.
    Also if I understand your earlier postings correctly, you told about not being able to trigger other (studio) flashes by optical trigger due to the preflash from the Master. My experiences are different, when using both Master and remote falshes in Manual mode, dialed in on the Master steering menu M Manual, A Manual, B Manual with the (in my case) SB600's (and SB800's) in TTL with Remote off (as described in my set up 4), the optcal trigger works in synch with the Nikon flashes ( and of synch when TTL is dialed in instead of Manual).
    Again, if in your experience it still does not work, please in detail describe your settings so they can be repeated. This is after all a forum people read to get informed, not to get on their soapbox (at least I hope) so comparing your and my experiences would serve a purpose.
    I understand your urgency to pound it in that the TT1/TT5 in your experience does not work, but sorry, based on my experience they do.
    I partially reshot my test, with SB800's as remotes instead of the SB600's, and have posted the pics on my Pbase account
    http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/pw_tt5_test
    so you can see the results rather then jump to conclusions while maybe only reading what you want to hear rather then what is actually written
     
  54. Hi Steven
    Based on my findings here are my answers to your questions
    'Quote' If I have the TT1 and AC3 in my shoe mount, can I control either an SB800 or SB900 remotely if they are on a TT5 device. I am assuming that the SB800 or SB900 is set to remote mode. Can I use them in TTL mode or manual mode using the AC3 to direct the power output?'Unquote'
    Though I shoot with a TT5 on camera, my experience with the AC3 reflects what you think.

    'Quote' If I have the TT1 and an SB900 (in master mode) sitting on my camera hotshoe, can I control either an SB800 or SB900 (both in remote mode) remotely using either TTL mode or manual mode. In this approach I would use the mode function on the SB900 to determine whether the remote works either in TTL mode or manual mode. 'Unquote'
    Again, you are right I think. I must note though there have been some compatibility problems with the SB900 from what I read ( eg from what Ian wrote). Personally I use SB800's (but in real life use a SU800 or AC3 for from the camera dialing in the settings of the remotes) and have no problems.
    'Quote' If the FP mode on the camera is a problem, I would be happy to turn it off. 'Unquote'
    I've had no problems with using the FP settings with the TT5's, although when shooting over the max flash synch time power reduction will kick in (normal procedure when shooting a Nikon flash in FP mode over the max flash synch time, with or without the TT5)
     
  55. Thanks Paul,
    'Quote' If I have the TT1 and AC3 in my shoe mount, can I control either an SB800 or SB900 remotely if they are on a TT5 device. I am assuming that the SB800 or SB900 is set to remote mode. Can I use them in TTL mode or manual mode using the AC3 to direct the power output?'Unquote'
    For clarification, will the AC3 support both TTL and manual mode. Is that specified on the AC3 device with a switch/button?
     
  56. Hi Steven
    yes the AC 3 will support and TTL mode
    You can make your choice by setting the switches in top of the AC3 accordingly, kind of similar as the menu of the Masterflash or SU800. With the dials on the bck and the sides you can then dial in up to -3 to +3 compensation
    HTH
     
  57. Hi Steven
    yes the AC 3 will support and TTL mode
    You can make your choice by setting the switches in top of the AC3 accordingly, kind of similar as the menu of the Masterflash or SU800. With the dials on the bck and the sides you can then dial in up to -3 to +3 compensation
    HTH
    (sorry for the size of the picure enclosed)
    00YIU4-335709584.jpg
     
  58. @Paul
    It’s funny really, I too have cards in cameras and use them all the time. My ¼ power settings on SB800 remotes produce ¼ power not ‘full dumps’ as in your experiences. I could have got out my Minolta Flashmeters or my Minolta Spotmeter, but as this was just a test, believe it not necessary as I’m really capable of checking the consistency of results and seeing that the 1s recycle time of the flash at ¼ power is not a 4s recycle time of a full power dump.. nd ashifting the output to 1/1 power did just that – it output at 1/1 power and the image on the LCD illustrated the same.
    Now without going further, that illustrates that my remote SB800 flashes in manual do as they are supposed to do whereas your SB600's do not. In a correctly operating system the results should be identical.
    So my statement on the strenght of the flash isn't based on whether I saw if it did work and whether the output seemed very bright, but on the over-exposure of the area's the flashes were aimed at, compared to the way these area's were exposed when lit by a flash with reduced output. I wanted to use my flash meter, as some figures would have been nice, and get an actual reading to compare the different outputs, but based on the pictures I already had a clear idea.​
    A full power dump is a full power dump whether you meter it or not – whichever way you look at it it’s not working.
    Also you are comparing my shoot of a TT5 without master to your shoot with a master flash ( and remotes steered by the master)?​
    No I’m not. I did exactly the same as your set 1 and set 2. Mine worked. Yours didn’t.
    Set up 1: D3 with TT5 (no flash mounted) ,off camera remote 1 with SB600 M 1/16, off camera remote 2 with SB600 M 1/16
    Result: remotes work, but settings on the SB600's dont influence the output. I could not check it with my LunasixF (empty battery after years of not using it) but it seems to me output is full power so M 1/1

    Note: Did a reshoot tonight using SB800's as remote flashes, and now the Manual settings on the flash units themselves dictate the strength of the output correctly.
    The SB600's though do not give a consistent result and sometimes give a full dump, sometimes reduced output.
    Forgive me.. you do a test and publish it – I tell you that’s not the same as I get and your results are different yet you accuse me of not doing the same test as you did because my results were different? And then, you go back and check using remote SB800’s instead of remote SB600’s and you get completely different results! Hhmmm, Just like mine.
    Look at the facts.. Something you once did, now doesn’t work the same. How reliable is that? SB900’s, SB800’s and SB600’s should all be able to be used in any position you need them and not have their own peculiarities. The Nikon SB system doesn’t change, it's only the commands being sent to them which are incorrect.
    Also I miss in your comment on my findings on what I thought was amongst your major gripes against the TT1/TT5 when using a flash as Master with a TT1/TT5 on camera, i.e. the on camera flash in your repeated findings would not work. As you can see in my testresults, in my experience it works if set from the Master menu as M Manual and selected output. Have you now found the proper settings as well, or could you please in detail describe your settings so they can be repeated and compared to my set up?​
    You thought wrong. I have no problem with using a flash on camera used as master to control remotes.
    Your last setup is not really clear to me. Did you set up the on camera flash on Manual without the TT1/TT5 as well as the remotes on Manual without the TT5's? Then the whole discussion on the TT1/TT5 would be irrelevant as it would be simply be triggering by optic impulse.I must note though that if the remote flashes stay on the TT5's they don't work.But that set up doesn't seem logical to me anyway, why mount flashes on TT5 if those aren't used anyway. A cheaper alternative would be the AS-19 or AS 21 foot.​
    The remotes were always on TT5’s. Used alone without a flash on the camera’s TT1 they work fine. All triggering at the settings they are set to i.e. ¼, 1/2, 1/1 – whatever.. Just as you found out with your SB800's but not your SB600's.
    Or did you have the on camera flash with a TT1/TT5 as Master with M Manual, and the remotes on a TT5 with the flash units themselves in Manual and remote off? Tried that one in my set up 2.
    Set up 2: D3 with TT5 with SB800 (Master) M Manual 1/64, A Manual 1/32, B Manual 1/32, off camera remote 1 Ch A with SB600 M 1/16, off camera 2 Ch B with SB600 M 1/8
    Result: SB 800 M 1/64 on camera works (also at higher settings), but setting on the SB 800 nor on the sB600's dont influence the output of the remotes. They keep blasting away at full power so M 1/1. Note: As stated earlier in this post, with SB800's the remote follow the settings dialed on the remote SB800's, not the Master​
    I did the same as you – but mine fired at the settings the remotes were set to – yours did not.. Your results from your set 2 illustrates that this doesn’t work for you – your remotes blast at full power.. No M 1/32 settings as you had them set – but Full power !
    Also if I understand your earlier postings correctly, you told about not being able to trigger other (studio) flashes by optical trigger due to the preflash from the Master. My experiences are different, when using both Master and remote falshes in Manual mode, dialed in on the Master steering menu M Manual, A Manual, B Manual with the (in my case) SB600's (and SB800's) in TTL with Remote off (as described in my set up 4), the optcal trigger works in synch with the Nikon flashes ( and of synch when TTL is dialed in instead of Manual).
    Again, if in your experience it still does not work, please in detail describe your settings so they can be repeated. This is after all a forum people read to get informed, not to get on their soapbox (at least I hope) so comparing your and my experiences would serve a purpose.​
    I found the discrepancy with firing PEC slaves as remotes, it occurs when an on camera flash is used in TTL. This fires any remote PEC prematurely. Somehow, when I tried to use all Manual settings previously driven from the on camera SB900/TT1 the remote PEC's fired, but didn't sync. I still don't understand why.
    I understand your urgency to pound it in that the TT1/TT5 in your experience does not work, but sorry, based on my experience they do.​
    LOL!
    I have no urgency to pound anything in anywhere. I did have an urgency, I wanted to use these PW’s on a job I flew out to Copenhagen for, I had nearly two weeks to get them working, but in the end didn’t use them because they didn’t work. Based on your findings, you point out they obviously don’t work as well. They don’t trigger remote flashes at the power you set them to, and even in your set 2 setup where they should work – they plainly don’t. Full power dumps formed no part of your setup, and as far as I can see only confirm my suspicions.
    I partially reshot my test, with SB800's as remotes instead of the SB600's, and have posted the pics on my Pbase account
    http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/pw_tt5_test
    so you can see the results rather then jump to conclusions while maybe only reading what you want to hear rather then what is actually written​
    You wrote it – I’m reading it. I read your whole posts including where you found SB600s don't work the same as SB800's. I replied to your original post pointing out that your setup doesn’t work, yet you’re obviously not seeing it. Again you’ve written the same 'based on my experience they (the PW's) work' !! Not likely!! Even you're getting abnormal results.
    Compared to what I have, your setup seems worse. I can set remotes (SB800's) to whatever output level I want them and they will trigger at that output level. Yours don’t. Not even in your set 2 results which should work fine. In set 2 you say that your SB600’s fire at full power, then you say that your SB800’s fire at what they are set to. That’s just fundamentally wrong and if you say things are working fine then you’re just ignoring the truth and making excuses.
    The only thing preventing me from sending these back right now is the announcement of Auto Hypersync and the likelyhood of a firmware update to incorporate this and maybe fix all the other issues I've encountered. Failing this, they're just too buggy to use and fall far short of expectations and fan club ravings.
     
  59. Hi Ian
    for someone who is so vehemently negative about the TT1/TT5 it's amazing how eager you are to hold on to them just for the sake of one feature and hopes for a future software update. Personally I would ditch them in a blink of an eye if they are as bad as you report and get the Radiopoppers (unfortunately not allowed where I live). But then I'm not a fanboy (the TT5's and AC3 are the first PW items bought ever by me) so I can't guess your other reasons to hold on to them are.
    From all the issues you mentioned as far as I understand ( not being a native English speaker doesn't help when I try to follow all your ranting) only my experience with the SB600's when used with the TT5's without a Master SB800, AC3 or SU800 remains. For me that is not an issue as I will use a AC3 or SU800 and found that in those cases the output dialed in on the Master is followed correctly by the remotes.
    Also I don't pretend I have the last word on the use of SB600's in the non Master way described, so some else might very well have other findings.
    So I guess Shun can lock this thread, apart from the ranting about how bad and unreliaible these units are, I hope there's also something usefull written for other unbiassed readers just looking for info
     
  60. The most useful feature for me is the hypersync capability. Being able to add 1.6 stops more output is really useful, but not if I have to lug around a remote flash just to use it especially when the capability is in the on camera TT1/TT5. In fact, if I fit an unsupported (non-PW) radio transmitter to the on camera TT1/TT5 I can transmit a hypersync signal and use it at another radio transmitter fitted to another light, BUT, on the hotshoe, a flash that the TT1/TT5 is designed to work with doesn't work !
    My 'rant' was that you can't just use the TT1 and TT5 in plain vanilla radio trigger and receiver mode. Either you get remotes firing, or on camera flash firing - but not both at the same time. I've since discovered that even specifically setting them in 'Basic Trigger Mode' they won't work in this way either.
    If you followed my original question, you will see I wanted to trigger an on camera flash in Manual and remote flashes in Manual with no ControlTL jiggerypokery. This can be made to happen via a workaround, and does work, except it stops working as soon as the camera goes into standby.
    If these are not problems, I don't know what needs to be pointed out for you to realise they are.
     
  61. Ian,
    Have you tried the FV (Flash Value) lock function in the camera? I'm not sure if this works with the new PW's, but in regular CLS use this locks a flash value, killing the pre-flashes. I've used this with SB-26's as slaves, everything syncs. The Hypersync works, even with a regular Plus II as a receiver with Q-Flashes, quite well... 1/800 on a D700.
    It could be that the new PW's weren't ready for prime time with the SB900... did you try just the two SB800's?
    Good luck sorting it out!
    -Greg
     
  62. Hi Greg,
    Interesting that you trigger your QFlash with PW's.. I use the Quantum TTL radios with mine.
    I've tried pretty much everything with the TT1/TT5's and ultimately the conclusion was that I needed to employ a workaround for everything I wanted to do - which is no good if you rely on these as working tools. PW's solution extended to acknowledging there were problems yet not offering any estimation of when the problems would be fixed, that is, if they were ever going to be fixed, and which ones. From my point of view - that's just not acceptable.
    Every avenue I explored resulted in some sort of problem arising and needing a solution or workaround which I just don't need, and even with SB800's maybe working better or differently to SB900's again working differently to SB600's and even SB28-DX's not working at all are just too many variables to be juggling when all you want is to sync a few flash units.
    I only bought the PW's in preference to some Yongnuo's to utilise the hotshoe and stand fitting rather than 'cable / radio' fitting I usually use. The TTL and Hypersync options swung the decision with me thinking that having these options would add some sort of benefit. I rather wish I hadn't bothered with the PW's now with all the messing around and time I spent trying to get them to work even in the most straight forward way. Even the simplest of requirements requires a routemap of configuration to accomplish, and it was getting to a point where only having two configuration settings was going to cause problems as I would never know beforehand what camera, what function, what mode or what flashes I was ever going to be using. The Yongnuo's would have been a better option IMO.
    I sent the TT1/TT5's back. They were not ready for prime time as far as I was concerned, and there's no indication of when they might be.
     
  63. Ian,

    I feel your pain... one of the problems with the Mini is the button cell battery... have to keep a few in the bag, as you can't find those everywhere. IMO, I think going with PW Plus II's and manual power might be your best move...99 percent of the shoots I do are with those... rock solid, always firing. I keep the Mini set for Hypersync with Qflashes or Dynalites in case I need to knock down bright ambient... don't really use the High Speed (FP) sync that much, but I want to test that out...

    The Flash Value (FV) lock on-camera does work, it's just another thing to remember, that you set it. Have you tried an SU-800? More distance and much better control of groups, but still line-of-sight infrared, and no on-camera flash.

    The other drawback is simply cost... $220 for each strobe to have its own TT5 receiver can get spendy!
    Good luck with your sync search!
    Cheers,
    Greg
     
  64. If you need any button cells - I know somebody with a decent supply.. I bought a bulk pack in case I needed them.. but never got to experience the button cell problem as I never made it past a single cell :)
    Ironically, I only really wanted Manual power radio sync for my speedlight set. The TT1/TT5 should have managed that easily enough but didn't, and adding Plus II's wouldn't have been any better than I already have.
    The majority of the time I shoot with Quantums and FreeXwire in remote Manual and group TTL if needed. These work well, and if I need more than half a dozen QFlash I'll add in a similar amount of Lumedynes and extra Speedlights all triggered by FreeXwire receivers as well, with them all in sync, and whatever the mode settings.. and this by doing nothing special other than just plugging in the receivers. With about 15 receivers, having a radio solution isn't a problem, initially with the PW's I was looking for some hotshoe based convenience which I thought might be more efficient than cabling radios to speedlights and save some space/weight/potential problems/time with setting cables up, but I learned otherwise. :( I think I'll be using cables and radios from now on, if not - just slave cells - and just be sticking to what I know works.
    Hypersync in the Mini/Flex would be useful if you could just use it on camera, or on an SC29 cable and bracket. I'd optimised it to provide +1.6 stops more output benefit as a remote which is really useful, even though this offered less than an X5d-r does at any shutter speed, so I'm not mourning that loss particularly. I don't lose any flash/ambient ratio with these like I would using FP mode - and it's just easy to use. If this Hypersync feature gets developed so that it works, I'd consider buying a TT1 again just for this benefit. I suppose the gamble is whether I get rid of the button cell supply now, or wait until the TT1 gets fixed, assuming that the batteries might still be within their 'use by' date by then.. :)
    I tried a Quantum Trio on the PW TT1/TT5 setup as well as the SB800/SB900/SB28 DX/Wein/Radio transmitters etc.. the Trio is a HSS Quantum but this didn't work with the PW's in HSS and neither in Hypersync, despite the Trio supposedly being 'compatible' according to PW. Both these functions were worse than the native settings used alone.. so that was just another nail in the coffin.
    $220 is a bit spendy, but for a TT5 isn't too bad if they would work complete with HSS and Hypersync and had remote sync reliability including hotshoe (vanilla) sync if required (without having to switch configurations, add cables, insulate hotshoes and remember which flashes do work and those that don't), but compared to a $30 Yongnuo which is just a reliable radio sync by all accounts, then in comparison the price is really unjustified. It's the price you pay to be a 'strobist' 'speedlighter' unfortunately.. Both those tags add $$'s. The plug-in FW7Q TTL receiver is only $155 in comparison which controls the 400ws QPaq's.
    PW ControlTL with speedlights just turned into a completely bad experience for me, so I won't be hurrying back I don't think, and I'll be treating claims of how brilliant the PW's are with a deserved amount of skepticism.
     
  65. Ian.
    Sounds like we're on the same page... I have a few X5's, and three T4's, and I usually just trigger them with plus II's, manual, and any kicker or incidental lights can be SB's, 800's or my old fave SB26's ( powerful, built in optical slave) I can relate to trying to clean up the wiring mess ! I like Plus II's for medium format digital... seems to be the standard of the industry... you can rent extras anywhere.
    I'm a little confused though... you can use a Mini TT1 on-camera without a speedlight attached, you just don't have group control without a light or SU 800 attached... Hypersync will work, triggering a Plus II as a receiver... again manual power setting on the light. For what I do, manual is the way to go... set your lighting, power per f-stop, and walk the shutter as needed, just like studio lights. The Mini just gives me those extra shutter speeds to knock down the ambient outside... and I don't like having to plug it in the laptop to change settings.
    You can't beat the portability of speedlights, I think that's where the CLS stuff comes into play... one small roller case with some speedlights and PW's, you can do a lot with it! They can't take rapid-fire work like the Qflashes... they will overheat.
    If I discover anything new, I'll post back here...
    Cheers,
    -Greg
     
  66. The overidding impression I get from experienced users is that the ControlTL system is pretty much OK for Hypersync use, but the reliability isn't there for any other application. I'd pretty much agree with that.
    I have yet to see any evidence that the Hypersync function will translate from speedlights to any more powerful strobes and still retain a +1.6 stop benefit the speedlights provide. I'm sure the combination exists which will make this worthwhile and I'll be watching to see any developments in this area especially with battery portables. For now, if more output is required, I'll just add a bigger gun as I always have. Works for me :)
    Hypersync is a neat trick, but unless it adds benefit, it's no better than just hacking the sync.
     
  67. Hi All,
    Weak batteries (but green LED) and Corrosion on the battery compartment lid have been the root of all of my problems with this system.
    I'm using the Nikon TT1 AC3 and TT5 daily/professionally with good results on sb-900, 800 and on various studio units mixed with Plus IIs.
    The corrosion had me stymied. I was actually packaging the dead TT5 up for repair when I noticed corrosion on the battery compartment lid. I'd put three sets of batteries in it and it wouldn't power up. I scraped the corrosion with a knife and that did the trick.
     

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