Please help settle a very strange argument?

<p>Hello, I will not argue here and ask others not to either, but rather I am looking for an answer to a simple question that is relevant to one of the strangest arguments I have ever seen.</p>

<p>In the attached image, does the larger pattern at the top look like smaller pattern A, smaller pattern B, or neither one?</p>

<p>Thank you for your time.</p><div></div>

<p>Going purely on my first impression, I'd say that the top diagram looks like the bottom half of diagram A and the top half of diagram B. I see a capital "H" in the top one, but I don't see the "H" in either A or B.<br>

So for me, the answer is neither.</p>

<p>Top diagram is three colours, not two colours like A and B.<br>

B is immediately the better match. A would have to be reversed, in both senses.<br>

Do you propose to not tell us what is the argument?</p>

<p>It looks more like "B" except that "B" doesn't have the thin horizontal lines on the left and right like the top image does. At least that's what it looks like on my monitor.</p>

<p>The argument starts a few pages into the thread at http://www.photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00Xgse if you are that interested. The topic is primarily resizing images.</p>

<p>To me the top one looks like a combination of both dark and light squares, but it one has the little horizontal lines on either side.</p>

<p>It doesn't look like either one -- the top one has alternating black and white stripes on the sides; the bottom two have different shades of gray.</p>

<p>It is interesting to me that it looks closer to B than A. It should look more like A, because the darker grey is closer to middle grey, which is what I'd expect from the alternating black and white stripes.</p>

<p>The darker gray is meant to be around 21% gray and the lighter gray is meant to be around 50% gray, though the exact colors may vary with the monitor.</p>

<p>With my monitor and calibration, B.</p>

<p>But there's no way to settle your argument. A resizing algorithm that "prefilters" will look like B. A resizing algorithm that doesn't will look randomly like A, B, or some weird hybrid.</p>

<p>The argument is about what they <em>should </em>look like, not what they do look like.</p>

<p>It should look like B</p>

<p>I can tilt my LCD up and down and it switches between A and B. </p>

<p>The question, of course, is to gamma. If I scrunch down to desktop level and squint and cross my eyes so the stripes blend, they almost blend to look closer to B. Copying and pasting into PS, and zooming out to 50%, so the stripes actually do blend, it looks like A. My monitors were calibrated within the week with an i1Display2. I don't recall the gamma selected.</p>

 

<i>The argument is about what they </i>should <i>look like, not what they do look like.</i><P>

 

If that's the case, it's pointless to ask people what they look like. You're not settling anything--you're just dragging the argument into another thread.

<p>To me , neither. Even if I screw my eyes so I don't see the grid pattern the edges appear mid way between the two greys.</p>

<p>Well if I squint my eyes the big one looks like B.</p>

<p>I wrote: </p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>It doesn't look like either one -- the top one has alternating black and white stripes on the sides; the bottom two have different shades of gray.<br>

It is interesting to me that it looks closer to B than A. It should look more like A, because the darker grey is closer to middle grey, which is what I'd expect from the alternating black and white stripes.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I wonder whether it would look more like A if it were on black instead of white. (I realize this is a different question than the gamma question in the other thread; here I've moved on to human visual perception.)</p>

 

<p>On both my monitors it looks more like B - both are calibrated with Colorvision Spyder with a Gamma of 2.2. At 50% zoom level in photoshop (or after zooming out 4x in firefox) the pattern changes to A.</p>

<p>To me the diagram on top looks like an "H", the A diagram looks like an "A" and the B diagram looks like an "U". But if I had to chose one I would go for the <strong>A</strong>. Because the sidebands of the top diagram, to me, look darker than its bottom half.</p>

<p>Which version here looks <em>correct</em>? <br>

Squint, rotate the display, look at the preview from across any sized room. And keep in mind, if one is right, the other are therefore wrong. <br>

Note they are identical, just zoomed differently in Photoshop. <br>

<img src="http://digitaldog.net/files/Zoom.tiff" alt="" /></p>

<p>Good idea, looking at the image from across the room. It clearly looks more like B. Almost exactly like B.</p>

<p>Can someone please explain why that is? If it is explained in the other thread, I can't find it -- too many tangents to follow.</p>

<p>Joe, on my EyeOne Display calibrated 2004 G5 iMac viewed in color managed Safari, "B" looks like the top center larger version except the stripes are a solid gray and blend as one U-shaped solid gray with the bottom square on "B".</p>

<p>I don't know how you can derive anything from this viewing on an 8 bit video system. I wonder also if LCD panel and phasing technology can influence the downsampled appearance differences considering all the different answers you've been getting.</p>

<p>I remember the rise and fall pixel timing issues with CRT's as the argument against using eyeball calibrators that relied on raster line blending targets and as a determiner of actual gamma.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Okay... When I first looked at it, I though it doesn't look like either, it looks like a dark grey square over a light grey square with black and white striped lines on either side. However, when I look at it from a high angle toward the monitor it looks like A and from a low angle it looks like B.</p>

<p>A and B are invereses both being one half of the whole. If you merge A and B and interleave the parts that over lap you will get the center image. It's like asking which is correct in the Ying Yang symbol, the white part or the black part?</p>

 

<p>A and B are invereses both being one half of the whole. If you merge A and B and interleave the parts that over lap you will get the center image. It's like asking which is correct in the Ying Yang symbol, the white part or the black part?</p>

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