Pink/purple drips from Acros 100 4X5

Hey all,

 

I just developed 5 Acros 100 4X5 sheets and when I hung them up to dry

I noticed the water dripping off them had a pretty strong pink tint to

it. The film base looks clean and clear just like the other Acros negs

I've done...it's just the water dripping off. The negs look good so

far too, but I am a little concerned about the color in the water

because I'm having a hard time figuring out where it came from.

 

They were developed in HC-110 dilution H for 5-6 minutes in a rotary

drum (unicolor). They were developed seperately with 2 negs in one

batch and 3 in the next (both batches had the tint, maybe a little

more severe in the 1st). The developer from the first batch was saved

and used on the second. After the first batch the developer still

looked clear or maybe had a little bit of a cool blue color.

 

After the developer they were rinsed, 4 minutes in TF-4 fixer, rinsed,

and 2 drops of photo-flo in 600ml distilled water. The water used to

rinse and mix the developer was tap water that's been in empty gallon

jugs since I last developed film last week or so.

 

I ran a clip test on the fixer between the 1st and 2nd batches and it

cleared in under 1.5 minutes. This wasn't the 1st time I've used any

of the containers or chemicals and I'm almost positive this tint

wasn't on the previous Acros negs I've done (only about a dozen).

 

I would think any problem with the developer or fixer would at least

be washed off my the final rinsing.

 

So, any ideas?

 

Thanks,

 

Alan

Fix just a little longer and wash and agitate during washing a bit longer as well. Many newer films have sensitizing and anti-halation dyes that don't come out easily during development and the stop bath. Many common developers are ineffective at stripping out these dyes.

 

Rodinal is one exception but we don't always want to use Rodinal for all films.

 

If that doesn't work to your satisfaction try something like Permawash.

I have the same colour after developing Presto 400 in Xtol. Maybe a Fuji thing.

 

Although my water is mostly clear at wash stage....

if the tint doesn't go away after the pre-wash, than it means you didn't fix long

enough. fix time is usually 15-20mins. put it back into the fix for another 5-10

mins. if it's still pink, than your fix is bad.

 

if it DOES clear after the pre-wash, than don't worry about it.

I've used Acros 100 (in 120 format) and like many, if not all, 'new' technology emulsions it has these purple sensitising dyes. I now double-fix as a matter of course using two baths at film fixing strength (Ilford Hypam Rapid Fixer at 1+4) with an intermediate rinse. I also wash film using the Ilford method which is adaptable to sheet film. I find that this removes the dyes.

Some people pre-soak the film in water for 3 minutes before pouring in the developer. This is more commonly done with TMX and TMY films. The pre-soak, combined with normal fixing and rinsing usually does the trick. It's not a bad idea to also use Perma-Wash or some other hypo clearing agent. You will still see that the newer film exhaust the fixer more quickly.

Thanks for the advice guys. I guess I didn't realize that Acros had the pink anti-halation layer on it like other films. I'd seen the tint on the 35mm and 120 Tri-x and Tmax films and I'm content to live with it. Even on those negs with the pink tint I've never noticed the water being stained that color.

 

I went and looked at the negs this morning after they'd dried and there may be a very slight pink tint to the base...or maybe I'm just imagining things. I can definitely see some pink residue at the bottom corner of the 2 negs that were done in the 1st batch where the water was running off.

 

I usually do use the Ilford method of washing and then some on the 4X5's. On the 1st batch I filled and dumped 4 times over 4 minutes or so. On the second batch I upped it to 6 fills (I think) in 6 minutes, which would maybe explain why that batch didn't seem as bad.

 

I'd just ordered a new bottle of fixer a couple weeks ago (Photographers Formulary TF-4) and when I looked at the directions on back this morning it states that for films with a magenta tint that fixing time should be extended 50% (normal time is 3-4 minutes). I'll have to look at the old bottle and see if that was in the instructions, I don't remember seeing it before.

 

Also, this fixer says a hypo clear isn't necessary, although it doesn't hurt to use one if you want. Since I've started using TF-4 I've ditched the hypo clear (always happy to save time) and kept the Ilford washing routine; has anyone seen a problem with this? Should I still be using a hypo clear with this fixer or extend my washing time if not using a clearing agent? The directions still say 5 minutes washing should be enough.

 

Either on my noon hour or after work I'll fill some trays to re-fix and wash those 4X5's.

 

Thanks all,

 

Alan

This is sensitizing dye. It controls the speed of the film. It is not photographic but is removed from the emulsion in the fix bath. The amount of sodium sulfite in the fix is the key to a "clean" clear area of your neg. Ilford's dye is purple and Kodak's is magenta.

There are usually 3 types of dyes in B&W films.

 

1. Sensitizing dyes make the film ortho or panchromatic. They are often only removed when fixing is completed as they are adsorbed to the surface of the silver halide, and only come loose when it is dissolved by the fix. They are very stubborn to get out, and the pH of the fix often determines how fast they come out. No film is routinely tested in alkaline fix baths, as no major manufacturer sells one.

 

2. Absorbing dyes are placed in the emulsion layer to trim the speed and reduce light scatter. Usually, these dyes wash out in the prewash or developer. They are very soluable in water and usually give no problem.

 

3. Antihalation dyes are placed in a subbing layer or on the back side of the support. These are often mordanted in place if in a subbing layer or are somehow anchored in place to keep them by the support to eliminate reflection from the support. These usually are designed to wash out in an acid or base bath or in the water wash. Sometimes, depending on process treatment, they don't wash out completely.

 

Please note that alkaline fixers are not common test solutions. Even though they work, it is like using a PMK developer. They work, but are not part of the test routine at the film manufacturer.

 

Also, you might note that test procedures usually include a stop bath.

 

These two points regarding the stop and fix steps are important in view of recent common changes in some darkroom practices among hobbyists. It is probably inevitable that some people will see retained dyes that the manufacturers did not expect to be retained, if the process used differs from the test procedure too much.

 

All I can suggest is using good hypo, a hypo eliminator if desired, and a good long wash.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ron Mowrey

Thanks for the extra advice...good things to know.

 

I just got done re-fixing and washing the negatives. I only re-did 4 of the 5 since one from the first batch (which seemed affected the most) was very underexposed and not worth saving/keeping.

 

Before putting them back in the fixer the film base still looked very clear; but after they were removed it was obvious that wasn't the case. When comparing them to the negative that didn't get a "retreatment" they were no obviously clearer with no tint. I guess it's kinda how off-white houses look white as can be in the summer but once snow falls on the ground the houses look yellow.

 

Looks like I'll be extending my fixing time, (and mixing a new batch) wash time, and using the hypo clear again. Thanks again for the input and sorry about starting what appears to be yet another "purple negative" thread. :)

 

Alan

 

BTW, I looked at the back of my old bottle of fixer and it did mention extended time for magenta tinted negs...guess I glossed over that part before. I'm curious to see what kind of difference that extension makes in my Tri-X negs.

>danny liao , oct 29, 2004; 02:21 a.m.

 

>if the tint doesn't go away after the pre-wash, than it means you didn't fix long enough.

fix time is usually 15-20mins. put it back into the fix for another 5-10 mins.

 

You have got to be kidding me--if you need to fix more than 4 minutes, you are doing

something wrong.

I understand how you feel. The first time I processed Acros and saw the pink/purple run-off, I thought I'd screwed-up, but NOT. Today, I:

 

1. Pre-wash in continually flowing water, that is the same temperature as the water mixed with the developer, for 30 to 45 seconds. (Lots of pink/purple here -- the anti-halation layer I presume

 

2. Develop in D76 (1:1) for the recommended time, agitate, etc.

 

3. Water wash for 30 to 45 seconds in continually flowing water

 

4. Fix for 5 to 8 minutes depending upon the freshness of the fix

 

5. Water wash for 30 to 45 seconds in continually flowing water

 

6. Hypo-clear for 3- minutes

 

7. Water wash in continually flowing water for 10- to 15- minutes

 

8. Hypo flo for not more than 1- minute

 

9. Hot air dry 10- to 15- minutes

et voila, no pink/purple negs

 

bon chance, ami