Photoshop Alternatives?

Discussion in 'Digital Darkroom' started by david_manzi|2, May 6, 2013.

  1. Now that Adobe has announced that it won't offer stand-alone versions of Photoshop and the Creative suite going forward, and will offer subscription-only versions, I'll be looking for alternatives. If you don't use PS for editing, what do you use? Free or commercial, anything goes.
    Bad move by Adobe...
     
  2. Give the Photopaint module (part of the Draw suite) a try. Corel lets you test if for free.

    Or, consider that if you just need Photoshop, Adobe's not asking you to subscribe to the entire suite, so it's still quite cheap if you look at the big picture - especially if you'd otherwise have to buy it, full boat.
     
  3. This will tick a lot of small photographers off for sure. I won't pay a monthly subscription for their software. This will only benefit the big users like schools and businesses. I am sure there will be taxes and all other sorts of added fees just like on a cell phone bill. So if you use PS and Lightroom, how much is that going to cost you a year? Too much for the small guy I think.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/t...creative-suite-software-online-only-6C9801124
     
  4. Sickening.
     
  5. Sickening...and it appears that Photoshop CC (alone) is $20 USD x 12 months = $240 per year.
     
  6. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    The target market for Photoshop now is graphics professionals. It was always very expensive for 99% of the photographers given. Lightroom is the direction Adobe took for photographers, and with a couple of third-party plug-ins, it does almost everything Photoshop does for photographers.
     
  7. It will be more than $20 a month. That is the introductory offer if you sign up in the next month. It will require a one year contract to get the $30 per month single item like PS. Lightroom will have its own monthly fee as well according to a Adobe customer service rep I contacted. Right now if you own PS there is no advantage to sign up because they will start charging you for something you already own. If they had a brand new PS program to offer it may be a reason to consider it. But the way I read it, you sign up and get to use what you already have with a new monthly bill to pay for creative cloud. No upgrades to your current version.
     
  8. $50 per month? Its about the same as a tank of gas. Get real everyone! We have known that Adobe and Microsoft were moving to a web-based subscription model for three years. If you need the full whack CS6++, then you should be legit. If you can do with Elements or LR than that's cheaper again. You can also get a cheaper license if you are a student as well. Why the shock horror?
    We are living in an environment where many people expect something for nothing. Well I have no sympathy. How can IT vendors expect to run their businesses and create jobs if their customers don't pay for their products? Subscription based licensing has been the norm for business apps for years. We all know that...so why the surprise?
     
  9. Buy CS6 while its still available, like I just did, and you can get 10+ years out of it. Sure ACR will not support a new camera's raw format but then you can use the DNG converter and get around it. How many of these new features do you really need? CS3 had 95% of everything you really need (and plenty you did not), release date 2007.
    We'll see how well this goes for Adobe. I understand why they would rather have a subscription model to iron out their cash flow and the need to come up with hype for more and more features that very few people really need.
    I know Lightroom is available in the CC but I doubt they would only have it available in the cloud. People do a lot of photography where there are no internet connections.
     
  10. Adobe confirmed that you will still be able to buy Lightroom directly as a non-subscription product. That really solves my problem. I will use LR as my main editor (incl. RAW support) and if I need more heavily lifting in Photoshop I'll continue using my CS5. That's all I need. I will not use their subscription model at all.
     
  11. I have PS Elements but I also need 16 bit editing so I have Capture NX2. Between those two I can do most of what I need to do but I shoot Nikon.
     
  12. >>> I will use LR as my main editor (incl. RAW support) and if I need more heavily lifting in Photoshop I'll
    continue using my CS5. That's all I need.

    Same here. Even CS5 is overkill for me.

    >>> Adobe confirmed that you will still be able to buy Lightroom directly as a non-subscription product.

    I wouldn't be shocked at all if that changes in a few years. Then they'll have me...
     
  13. I have PS Elements but I also need 16 bit editing​
    Coral Paintshop does 16 bit editing and is very reasonably priced. Very powerful program. Here is an image I created in Coral Paintshop from 6 different photos of my son to create the final image of him playing cards with himself x 5... Wasn't that hard to do.
    00bccT-535931584.jpg
     
  14. Paintshop Pro X5 is a super program. Well under $100.00 and quite full featured. Photoshop has been overpriced and overkill for most of us for a long time.
     
  15. You may want to have a look at Picture Window Pro. I tried it a few years ago but because I've been using Photoshop and was used to that I stayed with it. It seemed to be a very powerful program though and now that Photoshop will be subscription only I might have to go have another look myself...here's a link http://www.dl-c.com/
     
  16. Paintshop Pro for several years now. I also have Picture Publisher as part of the Corel Graphics Suite. Both are more than adequate for my (and I'll bet 90% of photographers) processing needs.
     
  17. PhotoResampling
     
  18. ACDSee Photo Editor 6, Capture 1 Pro, DXO Optics, Picture Window. Likely some of the freeware apps will take off, now. I remember when Paint Shop did little more than convert files, and the whole app could be run from a 3-1/2" floppy.
    I lived most of my lire without Photoshop.
     
  19. One thing that really bothers me about this scheme is that Adobe can increase the price at any time and you're stuck with it. If you own the software, you know what it will cost. With the cloud, you really don't. I'm hoping Adobe changes their mind on this one, and I'm hoping they take a financial beating over it. Right now the vast majority of their revenue is from boxed software.
    And who trust anyone's cloud service to be secure?
     
  20. Although I use (and will continue to use) CS5 myself, along with Lr or whichever converter is flavour of the week with me at the time, PSP X5 is functionally capable of doing almost everything I need from a pixel editor, and - in my opinion - has one of the best sharpening algorithms out there in the form of the "Focus" tool.
    However... Its highlight recovery is hopeless compared to the Shadows/Highlights tool in Photoshop; and it's slow and very unstable on my pretty decently-specced machine, as was X4 and several previous iterations; and it was no better on different, earlier machines.
     
  21. This is Corel's chance to fully jump on the Mac wagon. I used Photo-Paint for years. Liked it better than Photoshop for a lot of things, but it's Windows only. CorelDraw was far superior to Illustrator and had the page layout features of InDesign. You could do everything in one program. I did a lot of work with these two products and they make excellent files for RIPS. Right now, the only Mac products they have are Painter, their CAD program and AfterShot (it's like Lightroom).
     
  22. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    One thing that really bothers me about this scheme is that Adobe can increase the price at any time and you're stuck with it​
    That's been true since the first day they started selling software! Nothing has stopped them from raising the price of either a new version sold or an upgrade. Nothing stops nearly any business from changing their fees. That said, enough blow back, Adobe could lower the cost of CC. There's lots to dislike about this new move but the idea that now Adobe can up the price is not worthy.
    Suppose like a magazine subscription, Adobe lowers the price per year if you sign up for 3 years? Nothing stops them from doing this either.
     
  23. If Adobe came out with a brand new upgrade for PS in their effort to sell creative cloud I could see where some people would buy in. At the current offering you will only be buying 2 gigs of cloud space and nothing else. You will basically pay them to use the software you have already bought and paid for. They have a need to collect cost of the hugh storage space they had to construct for cloud and getting people to jump to the subscription plan with a low introductory offer is the way they can pay for it. Why would anyone who has PS or Lightroom pay Adobe a monthly rate to use the software they already own. The reason behind all of this is PS has leveled off and the new versions won't have enough upgrades to warrant the cost of an upgrade. http://johndoddato.blogspot.com/
     
  24. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    If Adobe came out with a brand new upgrade for PS in their effort to sell creative cloud I could see where some people would buy in.​
    But that's exactly what they are doing. Plus, updates to the upgrade (new features) will occur on a regular basis, not every 12-18 months.
    Why would anyone who has PS or Lightroom pay Adobe a monthly rate to use the software they already own.​
    No one would and that's not what Adobe is proposing. The CC suite is all new.
     
  25. The CC suite is all new.​
    No, it's not. For most of us, it includes the software we are already using, plus a lot of other software we have no interest in using, much of which is irrelevant to photography. Check out the photography tab on their description. This new arrangement simply forces us to continue paying them, regardless of whether we want new features introduced in an upgrade. It also reduces their incentive to upgrade, since they have only weak competition and will no longer have to introduce improvements to encourage us to fork over additional money.
     
  26. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    No, it's not. For most of us, it includes the software we are already using​
    Your wrong! Photoshop CC is what you'd like to call CS7, it's new and has new features and additional features will appear as part of the subscription:
    http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/05/06/powerful-new-adobe-photoshop-cc-debuts-at-max/
    http://tv.adobe.com/watch/creative-cloud-for-design/terry-whites-top-5-features-in-adobe-photoshop-cc/
     
  27. Photoshop CC is what you'd like to call CS7,​
    Right. It's a (minor, IMHO) upgrade--not "totally new"
     
  28. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    Right. It's a (minor, IMHO) upgrade--not "totally new"​
    Wrong again, it's a NEW version. It has NEW features and other features will be added on a regular basis. It isn't a dot release with just bug fixes. It's CS7 with a different label. But you don't call it CS7, it's CC. The facts are the facts, it's a new version with a new serial number and new features. You may not like em, you don't have to upgrade. But saying:You are forced to use CC its not new is just flat out WRONG.
     
  29. So if I have CS5 what is it going to cost me per month to have the brand new CC software? And what happens when I go over the 2 gig limit on cloud? And is there a tax and handling fee added to the monthly statement like with a cell phone bill?
     
  30. David Manzi:
    One thing that really bothers me about this scheme is that Adobe can increase the price at any time and you're stuck with it
    Andrew Rodney's reply:
    That's been true since the first day they started selling software! Nothing has stopped them from raising the price of either a new version sold or an upgrade.​
    That's not what David means. David is saying that, under the old model, you purchased a version of Photoshop and could choose whether to upgrade if Adobe raised its prices. If you chose not to upgrade, your old version remained usable.

    With the subscription model, if Adobe puts the price up your only choices are to pay the new monthly price or to immediately stop using the software. This is a big step backwards for Photoshop users and David is quite right to point this out.
    Moreover, the Photoshop-only subscription price is more than twice as expensive as the old price for upgrades (assuming that you already have a copy of Photoshop and that you upgraded every 18 months).
    I plan to stick with my existing version of Photoshop for as long as I can, then seek an alternative. I have no plans to switch to the subscription-gouging model.
     
  31. I'd urge everyone to read Thom Hogan's article about this issue that he posted today.... "Don't Say I Didn't Warn You" http://www.bythom.com/
     
  32. See Scott Kelby's website for knowledgeable answers to many questions. Notice I said knowledgeable, not
    necessarily comforting answers:

    scottkelby.com
     
  33. Gerry, that's exactly what I meant. I purchased CS6 and that was the end of it. I can use it forever and the cost remains at the purchase price. Also, under the new model I'm being charged for "cloud" services I truly don't want!
    I'm hoping Adobe comes to their senses when they see the backlash against this.
     
  34. Simple:
    If you like Adobe's cloudy thing for a monthly fee for the rest of your life, sign up.
    If you Like and use Lightroom, don't be surprised if this goes subscription only in the future, too.
    Personally, I'm going shopping.
     
  35. I have spoken with an Adobe rep and the new Lightroom 5 will only be available in Cloud. I will buy the version 4 seeing I don't own it. I have CS5 and will buy the student DVD package of CS6 seeing I have a son in college. The upgrade from Adobe for CS6 is no longer available
     
  36. This is pure arrogance on the part of Adobe. This is going to backfire in their faces. I honestly don't think they know how many of their sales go to amateurs as opposed to professionals. I am certainly not going to go to the cloud version. Not a chance in hell. Thom Hogan has slammed them. Not a single one of us, professional or amateur has called this a good idea. Anyone contemplating buying CS6 in the box ought to have their head examined. Support for it will be over way too soon. Maybe it is like a twinkie. A good investment until Adobe comes crawling back with their tails between their legs. But they know what they are doing.
    So the student version of this program is $19.95 a month. Even that is a lot of money for a student.
    Adobe has positioned itself
    At $50.00 per month it makes the Paintshop-pro X5 program at $59.95 a no brainer. The folks at Corel have to all be at the bar. Adobe just made them rich. I have the Paintshop program and like some of its features better than CS6. It supports my 64 bit OS and opens in two or three seconds. If I deleted photoshop tomorrow it would have zero effect on my productivity, quality of my work or ability to serve my customers.
    We saw what happened to some whiz-kid CEO in the J.C. Penny debacle. So who is taking bets. The Adobe site says they will be selling CS6 "indefinitely". Sound like they are covering their bets? It does to me. So they are rolling the bones. We'll see how good they are a gambling.
     
  37. Finally bought a new computer and learning and getting to like Lightroom 4. So how long until they no
    longer support version 4? There will be a time to come when it will no longer work with newer operating
    systems and then will I be forced to "rent" my software or change to a different program?
     
  38. We will all have to decide for ourselves what is the best way forward. It may be a time where we don't upgrade our OS and software as much as we did in the past. A lot of the new innovations with software has leveled off in the computer world. Sure you can do things with cell phones and apts, but for the photography end of things you have to settle on a useable work flow and just go out and take pictures. In my forty years of darkroom work I upgraded when there was a real big change in equipment or film. Most of the time I just worked with the tools and materials I had for many years. I think we are all tired of the never ending upgrading of the computer world. It may be that Adobe knows it can't come out with big changes anymore to their software and this is a way to keep a steady stream of revenue coming in. http://johndoddato.blogspot.com/
     
  39. I have Adobe Elements 8 and Elements Premiere 8. How can I upgrade to Elements 11 and Premiere 11? Can I get a disk? I don't want to just download. Is there a reduced price for upgrade? Will these still work once Adobe goes cloud?
     
  40. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    We saw what happened to some whiz-kid CEO in the J.C. Penny debacle.​

    Ron Johnson is hardly a "whiz-kid." He was VP of Operations at Target for many years. He ran the Apple stores for almost ten years. He was around 50 when he took the job at JCP. He just thought that the Apple experience would translate to JCP, very different scenario than where Adobe is now.
     
  41. Just picking up on some incorrect statements...
    When you "buy" a piece of software, you don't own it. You are actually buying a limited license to use it that can be cancelled at any time. The only difference between those who got the cd or downloaded CS and paid their $$ to use it, and those who are paying a monthly $ fee is the payment method. You also get upgrades in the future in the fee.
    Some may also not know is that when you fire up PS under Windows 8, the code for PS reports and confirms the legality of your license. For those who have been using unlicensed versions, time is counting down to get your license in order, otherwise you risk Adobe sending a little background message to switch PS off. You get 21 days. Its just happened to a couple of work colleagues.
     
  42. I'm troubled by Adobe's plans.

    Pricing is very different, it seems they have no qualms about discontinuing a product, I wonder about being locked into a proprietary file format and a subscription model where they can raise prices and hold images hostage, and I wonder what happens if any of us are traveling and are offline for a period of time. Will the product stop working if someone is offline for a while?

    At any rate, this really lowers my trust of Adobe and I agree that considering alternatives now is a good idea.

    I just recently purchased Cs6 and if I remember correctly, I have a 30 day return window. Do you think it makes sense to return it now to spend the money on an alternative?
     
  43. I have to have Creative Suite 5.5 for professional use (mainly InDesign). Before I got this, I used Photoshop 4.0 upgraded to 5.0 on every machine on which it would run - when it wouldn't any more, I got Elements. Many of my friends have for years been using Photoshop LE in various guises which I got free with scanners, printers etc. and gave away to them.
    For general home use, as several others have said, you can't beat Corel. I will never never never use any cloud application - to me this just stands for an excuse to charge more money for software, with the risk that a server may go off-line just when I need it, suppliers may go bust, etc. Of all the stupid ideas associated with computers, cloud computing is the most stupid of all (although Windows 8 comes a close second - I read today there will be an "update" soon which will revert the more annoying features of Windows 8 to Windows 7).
     
  44. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    I wonder about being locked into a proprietary file format and a subscription model where they can raise prices and hold images hostage​
    What proprietary file format are you referring to?
     
  45. What proprietary file format are you referring to?
    I presume .PSD. Answer is easy - forget .PSD when you have finished editing and save as .TIF (plus a little .JPG for web posting, e-mailing, etc.).
     
  46. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    Except for Duotone support, there is zero reason to save a PSD instead of a TIFF. BOTH are owned and controlled by Adobe. One's open, one's proprietary.
     
  47. If any of you are curious, DP Review published a "interview" with an Adobe exec where they lobbed a few softball questions his way. The answers point to an arrogance and total disregard for the amateur market. Read this quote of his:
    "We expected a higher degree of this type of reaction from the hobbyist photographic community because currently there's not a lot of photography-specific value in our subscription products."
    In other words, we can all drop dead. Great move, Adobe! Way to sell us on the idea!
     
  48. In other words, we can all drop dead. Great move, Adobe! Way to sell us on the idea!​
    Adobe is under no obligation to sell us on it - the company owes us precisely nothing.
    This is clearly something that Adobe believes is a good business move and - let's face it - they know their business better than we do. If you don't like it, the solution is to vote with your wallet - if you can find an alternative that ticks all the boxes.
    Me, I'll keep using Lr for as long as its available as a stand-alone, and will continue to use CS5 for my pixel editing, exactly as I do now. And if/when Lr goes cloudy, I'll use DxO Optics Pro and/or Photo Ninja, exactly as I do now.
    This change of direction by Adobe is only a problem if you let it be a problem.
     
  49. I wonder how much control Adobe has on the old stand alone products like CS5 and CS6 that are outside of the new CC. They have said they will not upgrade anything outside of the CC platform. Do you think it is possible to do software (DVD) swap's with other people to upgrade say from CS3 to CS6? Just a thought
    johndoddato.blogspot.com
     
  50. Keith, if you can get along without ever upgrading your software, no problem. Some of us need to upgrade every so often to keep pace with file formats, raw converter filters, etc. For those who need to upgrade, we're getting screwed.
     
  51. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    They have said they will not upgrade anything outside of the CC platform.​
    That isn't what they said! Adobe won't be adding any new features to the CS6 apps and will only release maintenance updates. That will not be indefinitely of course so plan ahead.
     
  52. OK, Adobe won't be adding any new features to CS6. Maybe just bug fix or something. It is still a dead ended software if you own it outside of CC. To stay current with new software releases you need to join the monthly fee club.
     
  53. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    OK, Adobe won't be adding any new features to CS6. Maybe just bug fix or something. It is still a dead ended software if you own it outside of CC. To stay current with new software releases you need to join the monthly fee club.​
    All I can say is yes, isn't that obvious. It's true of any software product (to stay current, you need to join, buy into, the new version). To say Adobe will not support CS6 which can be your perceptual use product, is just incorrect.
     
  54. ted_marcus|1

    ted_marcus|1 Ted R. Marcus

    Photoshop isn't for the amateur or hobbyist. It's for the graphic arts professional who needs printing/prepress and other advanced features, and can "accept no substitutes." Because that market relies on Photoshop for their livelihood, and there's no alternative to it, Adobe can get away with squeezing those users with their full monopoly muscle. Users can yell and scream all they want, but Adobe doesn't care. If those customers want to stay in business, they have to do whatever Adobe tells them.

    Of course, if an amateur or hobbyist can afford it, Adobe will be happy to take their rent payments. But from Adobe's perspective, it's nothing more than a donation from outside the target market.

    Amateurs and hobbyists can use Lightroom and/or Elements, which will remain available for purchase. Adobe can't get away with forcing those users to rent software (or to buy every upgrade) because there's competition. If you hate Adobe, you can use Aperture, Paint Shop Pro, or The GIMP. It's the lack of competition for Photoshop in the professional market that gives Adobe the powerful muscles to squeeze those users into a head-lock.

    I think the MBA-geniuses who are forcing the rental model on captive users know what they're doing. Between the maturity and bulk of Photoshop (which makes adding genuinely compelling improvements to new versions increasingly difficult) and the persistent recession, Adobe faced an uncertain revenue stream. The new model fully exploits monopoly power for the shareholders' benefit. It's simply Good Business.

    It is possible that it will backfire, or at least not generate the full expected revenue. If Adobe gets too greedy, some professional users might discover that the "hobbyist" alternatives are good enough, even without the full 20 years of bloat that Photoshop has accumulated. Or else Corel might manage to extract its proverbial head from its proverbial fundament and come up with a Photoshop-killing version of Paint Shop Pro. A strategy that involves pissing off a significant number of customers always carries risks. But I think Adobe's MBA-geniuses can feel pretty smug about the enhanced revenue stream. They clearly deserve a big bonus!
     
  55. I thought I read that only 15% of Adobe's revenue currently originates from it's subscription services. It is rising but they will have to get to 100% of subscription revenue in the next couple years. That will be a major feat. Any stumbles and the shareholders might not be too tolerant.
     
  56. The new distribution model does have some benefits that heavy users of "Photoshop" will find attractive, as well as the noted negatives. Some will like the idea of getting new features incorporated without having to wait and pay for a whole new version as is the case now. You have to think of the monthly over time compared to the pricey stand alone or suite level Adobe products. If you like to upgrade Adobe as it developed the CC model may just be for you. It just depends on your wants and needs I guess. I have CS6 and its optimized for my rMBP. It will last me for a long time so I'm not really interested in constant upgrades and paying for them. I do most of my work in Lightroom with a few plugins and that is working pretty well.
     
  57. Some of us need to upgrade every so often to keep pace with file formats, raw converter filters, etc. For those who need to upgrade, we're getting screwed.​
    You don't need Adobe for any of that though, David - and it's hardly something to criticise Adobe for that they've become the preeminent provider of those "services" and are now trying to capitalise in a new way on that preeminence.
    Besides, to the best of anyone's knowledge, Lr will continue to allow us to maintain "currency".
     
  58. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    It'll be like $10/mnth, more people will be using PS than ever before while less people will be using older versions. And it should cut down on piracy. The sky isn't falling.
     
  59. Mac users don't have the PaintShop Pro alternative. Nor do they have the Picture Window Pro alternative. Both are Windows-only. While I use Parallels, and it works great for Windows apps, forget about color management, or any sort of high-quality printing. I tried, hoping I could keep using Picture Window Pro when I switched to Mac. Not workable, printing was hopeless. So I bought old-stock CS4 and a CS6 upgrade, which made switching to Mac much more expensive.
    Only alternatives for Mac users are Gimp and Photoshop Elements. I have Elements 8, I suppose I should get Elements 11 and see how much I would lose.
    I definitely use features in Photoshop CS6 that are not in Lightroom, like healing. I'm often working on scans of damaged prints and negatives, and the smart healing stuff is amazing. Need to see how much of that they "let" work in Elements 11.
    Sooner or later, a Mac OS update will break Photoshop CS6, and Adobe won't fix it. Sticking with CS6 is not a forever solution, it's a slow walk to the eventual gallows. (For instance Apple could switch to ARM processors -- they've already threatened that to Intel.) So I now have to find an alternative path to CS6. But I won't spend much yet, I suspect that they will get so much backlash that they will do something for amateurs.
    What galls me with Adobe's CC approach is that you're trapped for the rest of your life. They should give perpetuals to one release back after (say) a three-year subscription.
     
  60. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    After all that, John, wouldn't you (and other Mac users) now welcome a subscription-based system so that you're not trapped with a PS version that might only be good for a few years? I know plenty that felt let down and stuck with old versions of PS because Apple went Intel, and then drops carbon architecture. Now, as I understand it, many wont be loading LR5 because it only runs on Mountain Lion? Seems "going monthly" might resolve some of this?
    "I definitely use features in Photoshop CS6 that are not in Lightroom, like healing."
    Layers. The distinguishing feature in Photoshop is the ability to work in layers...and in layers as smart objects :)
    I hope the new system allows PS to be dual platform like Lightroom is
     
  61. I definitely use features in Photoshop CS6 that are not in Lightroom, like healing.​
    Lr5 has context-sensitive healing.
     
  62. Something as complex as this new business model Adobe is releasing is bound to have bugs and problems, especially in the early going.
    Think back to your last experience with Adobe's Customer Service.
     
  63. [[It'll be like $10/mnth]]
    Where did this number come from?
    [[And it should cut down on piracy]]
    Adobe has already acknowledged that this will do nothing to reduce piracy.
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/05/08/Adobe-photoshop-cc
    While service options that connect to our servers are inherently less prone to piracy, once a user downloads software to their computer the piracy threat is the same as for our perpetual products.​
     
  64. Adobe has already acknowledged that this will do nothing to reduce piracy.​
    But that's not how it'll (supposedly) cut down on piracy - this is: http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2012/05/creative-cloud-vs-piracy.html
     
  65. I am from the "I buy it, I own it" school. So cloud application rental is not a business model I want to participate in. More to the point is that I tend to use products that reliably meet my needs- and then I stay with those products for a long time. I frequently skip several generations of upgrades because what I have continues to work well. I use CS2 and LR3.5. I am happy with both. The capbabilities of both exceed my needs at this time. I probably use less than 40% of the capablities of CS2 for example.... Now why should I subscribe to a hamster wheel of upgrades when what I have works perfectly well ? I suspect there are more people like me than Adobe is aware of.
     
  66. Am I correct when looking at the Adobe site, that if you want just one app, its $20 USD a month? If that app is the photoshop equivalent is not a bad deal. Am I not reading it correctly?
     
  67. When you can upgrade at 199 every 18 months, that's roughly 10 a month and no obligation to purchase forever to access your files.

    The subscription is nearly twice the price with the requirement for a lifetime commitment.

    In my mind, that's MUCH more expensive!
     
  68. Am I correct when looking at the Adobe site, that if you want just one app, its $20 USD a month? If that app is the photoshop equivalent is not a bad deal. Am I not reading it correctly?​
    No, that's right, Barry - and speaking as (for all I know) a "typical" enthusiast photographer who doesn't use Photoshop every day of every month, I'm harbouring the hope that the pricing will extend to a per day or perhaps per weekend model at similar rate: nobody will win the argument then that CC isn't potentially an excellent option for many of us, and I see no reason whatsoever why this wouldn't be doable.
    Imagine that: access to the absolutely current version of Photoshop whenever you need it, for a couple of dollars (or for me, a couple of quid) a time...
     
  69. When you can upgrade at 199 every 18 months​
    But it hasn't always been that cheap to upgrade, has it? Isn't it the case that only in the most recent upgrade round Adobe has made a Photoshop upgrade that low-cost?
    It's certainly true that Lightroom's pricing model has only relatively recently priced it so aggressively in comparison to competitors.
     
  70. Jonathan Zaremski:
    When you can upgrade at 199 every 18 months
    Keith Reeder's reply:
    But it hasn't always been that cheap to upgrade, has it? Isn't it the case that only in the most recent upgrade round Adobe has made a Photoshop upgrade that low-cost?​
    Upgrades have been in the $150-$200 range at least since Photoshop 7 (released in 2002). For example, the CS2 upgrade was $149 and the CS5 upgrade was $199, and new versions have been released every 18-24 months.
    It has also been possible to upgrade across multiple versions. For example, CS5 allowed upgrades from as far back as CS2. The $10 per month figure that some people are suggesting might be reasonable would be approximately the equivalent of purchasing every upgrade. The upgrade costs of anyone who regularly skipped versions would have averaged significantly less than that. Either way, the new cloud pricing is a big price increase, quite apart from the problem of losing access to the software if you ever stop paying.
     
  71. I will stay with CS2 and CS6 but I am concerned that the development of new plugins will wane as developers of this type of software may not find it financially advantageous to keep up with continuous upgrades to a cloud based Photoshop program. Just out of instinct in the last couple years, I have been purchasing standalone utilities like Photomatrix Pro, Panorama Maker Pro, Helicon Focus, DXO Viewpoint, plus others which all work as standalone programs and I possess a physical CD. Yes, most of this can be done in Photoshop, but since I don't know how long Adobe will support PS6, I've got most of the bases covered with CS2 and CS6.
     
  72. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    I will stay with CS2 and CS6 but I am concerned that the development of new plugins will wane as developers of this type of software may not find it financially advantageous to keep up with continuous upgrades to a cloud based Photoshop program.​
    As a plug-in developer, I can tell you that shouldn’t be a major issue for us. We've only had to make minor changes to mainly Installers and in our case due to Adobe moving away from placing Automate plug-in's which are few, into the Plug-In folder itself. We are also informed well in advance of such changes. We saw a tiny difference in CC whereby our installer searches for all copies of Photoshop on your drive so we know where you want our product, I believe only due to the new name change. Very easy to fix.
     
  73. Upgrades have been in the $150-$200 range at least since Photoshop 7 (released in 2002).​
    Not here in the UK! CS4 to CS5 cost me the equivalent of nearly $400, and yes, that was to upgrade.
    And as of right now: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adobe-Photoshop-Extended-Upgrade-Version/dp/B003DZ0DYM - that's $511 at today's exchange rate.
    For a CS4 - CS5 upgrade.
     
  74. Keith, the problem with looking at the current price of long-discontinued products, such as the CS5 upgrade, is that they are often quite inflated. But you are quite right to point out how much more Adobe's UK customers pay than their US customers.
    Incidentally, Adobe's cloud pricing is also more expensive in the UK. Photoshop CC costs £17.58 per month in the UK, which is around $27, versus $19.99 in the US. This is approximately the same percentage difference in price as in 2010 when CS5 was the current version.
     
  75. Andrew, that's very good news on the future development of plugins.
     
  76. Yep, I'm aware of all of that, Gerry. I guess the point I'm hinting at hasn't been picked up on, which is that Adobe can charge whatever they like, and complaining about on it here is going to have absolutely zero impact.
    So - just as UK/European photographers have long been "gouged" by Adobe and every other software company (and camera maker) out there, despite the miles of online complaint about it has been written over the years - Adobe is going to take no notice of US users banging on about the CC "price increase", especially when they've been paying well under the odds for Adobe product, compared to the rest of the world, for donkey's years.
     
  77. I am going through this process right now. I'm considering Capture One Pro 7.
    There is also an excellent January 2013 article in DP Review comparing LR4, Capture One Pro 7, and DXO Optics Pro 8. It's well worth reading.
     
  78. Give it some time, Adobe move to the cloud, will open market for some other players.
    By your copy now, be happy for 3 years, in 3 year time Instagram will do all job for hobbyist for free, take a shot and pick stile you want it to be processed, like " Ansel Adams stile", "Henri Cartier-Bresson stile" andof course you will be able to create custom presets, by-by Adobe.
     
  79. I am going through this process right now. I'm considering Capture One Pro 7.​
    To what end, Francisco?
    Capture One 7 Pro is a Lightroom alternative (definitely not a Photoshop alternative), and Lightroom isn't part of the Creative Cloud.
    Lr is hugely less expensive than Capture One 7 Pro too, for more functionality.
    So I'm not sure about your rationale here - and I actually use Capture One 7 (Express) and DxO Optics Pro 8 (Photo Ninja too) in addition to Lightroom. Creative Cloud is no reason in itself to be looking at Capture One or any other Lightroom challenger.
     
  80. in 3 year time Instagram will do all job for hobbyist for free, take a shot and pick stile you want it to be processed, like " Ansel Adams stile", "Henri Cartier-Bresson stile"​
    That suggests that hobbyists have low needs and expectations, Nick - in fact many of us aspire to very high standards.
    It takes a hell of a lot more than slapping on a preset style to make bird photography or fast motorsport photogaphy work.
     
  81. Whoosh...
     
  82. I indicated custom presets for
    aspiring hobbyists,
    LOL.
     
  83. Some of you have recommended Corel's PaintShop Pro. I admit that the feature list looks quite impressive, including 16-bit edit support.
    However, does anyone know if it supports the D800E NEF/RAW files? The list of supported raw formats on their website only lists the D800. I find it hard to believe they wouldn't support the D800E, but it's not like they don't list other variants of other camera models.
     
  84. Rich, Sorry not able to answer your question but one way would be to download the trial version and check out for yourself if your able to read your D800E files
     
  85. I have been using Photoshop 5.0 with Nik Silver Efex Pro II as a plug in to edit black and white images for printing (fine B&W prints are the main focus of my photography). Recently, following the purchase of Nik by Google, I was offered the complete Nik software suites for free since I had purchased Silver Efex Pro in the past and had updated to Pro II. Quite a bargain, and Color Efex Pro, etc. are quite capable programs. But, it makes wonder what Google has in mind for the photographic editing market. Specifically, if Google goes after Adobe for the high end market, will it try to break the Photoshop paradigm? Idle speculation perhaps, since Google isn't talking, but it didn't buy Nik if it had no future plans for photographic editing software.
     
  86. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    "But, it makes wonder what Google has in mind for the photographic editing market."

    Same here. Picasa/G+ on many fronts has been ahead of Lightroom for years. They already do raw, but poorly and crude. If Google bought a decent raw converter like Capture One Pro and combined it with Nik, I really could see G+ being a contender
     
  87. I've bought every upgrade since about PS5. They've generally cost about $199 or less and I've bought them about every two years. So on a monthly basis I've been paying about $8 a month for PS. Now they want me to pay $20 a month (this year, who knows what it will be next year or the year thereafter).
    If the upgrades were really all that important I might consider CC. But CS4 was the last upgrade that included a lot of things I use. CS5 and 6 contained only a couple things that that I use on any consistent basis and they aren't that big a deal. So I'll just stick with CS6, it works fine for me. If it stops working because of newer technology I'll have to give it some thought but for now and I think for a pretty long time it's an easy decision to avoid CC at $20 a month and stick with CS6 which I already have.
    Frankly I'm actually kind of happy about it. I upgraded to CS6 only because of Adobe's change to a "one generation back" upgrade policy, not because I really wanted any of the new features. I'd probably have continued doing that just on the off-chance that they might come up with some new killer feature that I really wanted in the future. Now I don't have to worry about constant upgrades that were unimportant to me.
     
  88. I wish I could upgrade my CS5 to CS6 but it is not possible after CC came out. I would have to buy the CS6 new at the high price of $600+. http://johndoddato.blogspot.com/
     
  89. If you don't want to use the latest tools available in the Photoshop, you can now get adobe Photoshop CS2 for free legally from Adobe.com.
    Download Adobe Photoshop CS2 for free with instructions.
    If you still want to use adobe Photoshop alternatives then,
    GimpShop is the best free Photoshop alternative which supports Windows, Linux and Mac. Corel Draw is the best professional alternative to Photoshop, if you want a Photoshop alternative which supports tethered shooting then Capture One Pro from Phase One is the best.
    Source: 22 online and offline Photoshop alternatives which support Windows,Linux, and Mac.
     

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