Photos archived to DVD are "lost"

<p>I've been trying to copy a number of folders containing jpeg, tiff and raw images to a DVD-R for archive purposes without any success. My computer runs Vista, and it came with Roxio "Easy Media Creator 9". So far, I tried both Roxio and Vista's DVD burn utility, with the same result: When I put the DVD back in the drive to verify the files are there, the files are not recognized or there not there at all.</p>

<p>Either with Roxio or Windows, I start by putting a fresh DVD-R in the drive. I'm then prompted to select a format - I select Mastered - then drag the folders to the DVD. Then I start the burn process. The process completes normally and the system ejects the DVD. I can tell that something has been written to the DVD because the bottom surface of the DVD has a band that is colored differently from the rest of the surface.</p>

<p>But when I check the DVD by putting back in the drive (as if I was going to pull files from it) Windows apparently thinks the DVD is blank because it displays the prompt to format the DVD, just like it did when I first loaded the fresh DVD. Just for grins I clicked to format the DVD as Mastered, and I got a message stating that the DVD was write protected.</p>

<p>So, is DVD-R an appropriate media for this? Should I use DVD-RW or something else? Can I drag entire folders to the DVD or do I need to drag each individual file? And yes, I do have a CD/DVD RW drive.</p>

<p>What should be a simple task is driving me nuts. I've spent many hours and wasted a number of DVDs trying to solve this. Any help will be greatly appreciated.</p>

<p>DVD-R and DVD+R are quite suitable media. Do NOT however use DVD-RW, as the information you burn on these will fade away in quite a short time.</p>

<p>Have you remembered to finalize the burn process? If not, there is a possibility that the information is burnt on the DVD, but cannot be seen by different software.</p>

<p>By the way, isn't there another way of burning than drag and drop? If you have something called an ISO or Joillet (or something like that) format, you can also try that.</p>

<p>Does the DVD burner/software combination burn -anything- to the disk that can be retrieved? Also try reading the disk on a different computer in case the problem is with the read functionality.</p>

<p>Also, the fact that Vista wants to format the DVD when you insert it may mean that some other software is running that treats the DVD like it was a mounted drive. This might be getting in the way of the writing process you're trying to perform.</p>

<p>The operating system can't read a DVD (or CD) unless the disc is properly finallized. This terminates the data area and locks in the directory. Since DVD's hold so much data (it seems like a lot if you don't take digital pictures), burning programs like Roxio and Nero allow an open-ended data structure, often as the default.</p>

<p>There are other fatal problems too - bad discs and writing speed too high, for example. It's good practice to "verify" after every burn, which compares files read from the disc to the originals, or between CRC check sums. Packet writing is used to emulate the operation and convenience of HDDs and floppy discs on CDs and DVDs. Unfortunately, this process is usually proprietary and requires special software to extract the data.</p>

<p>I burn hundreds of DVDs every year, and have no difficulty reading them afterward, even years afterward. I use "disc at once" writing to maximize compatibility between computers and operating systems. Look at your process and identify any errors you might be creating yourself.</p>

<p>Maybe you're using the wrong component of Roxio? You are wanting simply to copy files, not create a movie or music DVD. I haven't used Roxio in quite a while, but I do know I had a hard time finding the simple file copying functions, both in Roxio and Nero.</p>

<p>Also DVD-R's don't need any formatting. If it's asking you to format it and you do that it might be assuming you want to use the DVD for something else, or it's not recognizing it as a DVD-R. Maybe look into the settings more.</p>

<p>Phil,<br>

after reading the other posts on this thread, I think that you are using the burner software so that it tries to operate the DVD as a ordinary disk. It is a while since I used Roxio, but try to find the function in which there is no "drag and drop" of files. What other formats do you have than Mastered?</p>

<p>Need to tell Roxio you want to make a Data Disk....then add your files..then finalize....</p>

<p>Thanks for your responses. I've read in several places about finalizing. The problem is, I never get the opportunity to do it. When I use the Windows utility - just dragging files to the DVD drive - the entire process completes, and the system ejects the disk. With Roxio, pretty much the same thing happens. Oh, in Roxio, I am selecting data disk. But there's never a step called "finalize."</p>

<p>Brad, you ask an interesting question. But in Roxio, when I insert the blank DVD, the screen does show 4.7 gig available. (It decrements down from there as I add files.)</p>

<p>The only two formatting options are "Live File" and Mastered. The former is a proprietary MS format which allows you to use -+RW DVDs as normal hard drives. But all I want to do is to store data, and the Mastered format is the recommended method.</p>

<p>Windows formatting? Sounds to me like Mt Rainier, AKA Easywrite. In this case a packet-writing system is built into both Windows and the drive itself allowing you to drag files immediately to disk and let Windows finish formatting the file system in the background. That wouldn't entirely explain why you can't read the results, unless of course you're ejecting the disk early.</p>

<p>If it's not a software problem then it's hardware (drive or disc). Do you have a spare drive to test this?</p>

<p>In Roxio Creator Premier, after the writing process is finished and the drive ejects the CD/DVD, close the drive again, go to the Tools menu, and select Finalize Disk.</p>

<p><em>Brad, you ask an interesting question. But in Roxio, when I insert the blank DVD, the screen does show 4.7 gig available. (It decrements down from there as I add files.)</em></p>

<p>This statement indicates you are using packet-writing software. The directory is preformatted to establish a proprietary data structure then updated as data is added. Unlike a floppy or hard drive, you can't really erase or write over anything, so the data structures consist of pointers. All operations are sequential and cumulative.</p>

<p>'Nuff said about the details. It's simply not something you should be using to archive or backup up images. For one thing, you need proprietary software to read the results. For another, if an operation fails for any reason, everything recorded up to that point is lost.</p>

<p>I'll tell you, I do not trust archiving files on a DVD. Seen too many of them that become unreadable for no reason. Until something better comes along I have them on my computer, and on 2 external hard drives that are kept disconnected from the computer until I need them. Every 2 years or so I replace the hard drives w/ new ones and sell the older ones.</p>

<p>Download trial version of Nero 9<br /><a href="http://www.nero.com/eng/downloads-nero9-trial.php">http://www.nero.com/eng/downloads-nero9-trial.php</a><br>

When choosing compilation type select Create Data DVD and you should be fine.<br />If you will not be able to read disc burned with this software, it's likely there is some problem with your DVD burner.</p>

<p>To copy files to DVD+/-R, use Vista, not Roxio or anything else. You don't need to finalize before you've filled the DVD unless you want some non-Windows device to be able to read it.</p>

<p>Phil,<br />A quote from the excellent second edition (may-2009) of The Dam Book, the bible for archiving digital photographs:<br />'With proper handling, a quality optical disk that is burned well should be a valuable backup to a hard drive-based archive for 5 to 10 years'.<br />The author Peter Krogh gives the next tips:<br />- Use quality disks<br />- Burn at slow speeds<br />- Don't use a solvent-based pen to mark the disk. Mark only in the center area of the disk.<br />- Do not put label stickers on your disks.<br />- Don't print with inkjet printers.<br />- Immediately store your disks in a way that protects them from scratches.<br />- Protect disks from UV light, excessive heat and humidity as well as frequent changes in temperature.<br />- Validate the data on the disks from time to time.<br />Peter Krogh advises to use the DVD+R format, but states that manufacturing defects and poor storage conditions can result in data loss.<br />He recommends two brands of DVD that are considered particularly stable: Delkin Gold and Taiyo Yuden.<br />And of course: a single burned DVD should not be your only backup of your valuable photographs.</p>

<p>This was the subject of a recent Australian Photography magazine where they interviewed someone from the National Archives picture division. She was not at all keen on CD or DVD. Sobering. Printing on acid free paper and storing in archival boxes is the only solution for your most precious images. After that, external hard drives, at least two and preferably four, regularly accessed and replaced as per Steve Mareno's post, with some off-site back up. The manual for my business software lays down the law: extreme paranoia is the appropriate mindset for preserving data. Of course, some of us are also still shooting with film with some archival advantages.</p>

<p>Try CD's not DVD's. I'm told by the pro's that the default technology in the software for CDs is data file based, whereas DVDs are expecting a video type file and have to be tricked by software to accept data files.</p>

<p>If you're having trouble with Roxio, there are some excellent free applications that can burn standard, finalised DVDs or CDs from your data:</p>

<p>http://www.imgburn.com/<br>

http://cdburnerxp.se/<br>

http://www.deepburner.com/?r=products&pr=deepburner&prr=provsfree<br>

http://infrarecorder.org/<br>

http://www.burnaware.com/burnaware_free.html</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I use mozy.com for online backups. It runs every night, and it only costs $5/month. You do need a fast connection, though.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I'm told by the pro's that the default technology in the software for CDs is data file based, whereas DVDs are expecting a video type file and have to be tricked by software to accept data files.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>DVD Video IS a bunch of data files.</p>

<p>Phil,<br>

When Burning, I've found much better success making an .iso disc image first and then burning and finalizing that image to the dvd. You'll have to look up how to do that with your software. You do not need to do the whole process twice, just the final burn from iso twice to get two copies. Quality of blank dvd's can vary quite a bit. You may have a bad batch. Or it may be that you have a bum dvd reader. </p>

<p>To answer your questions more directly. . .</p>

<p>DVD when appropriate precautions are taken, can be an appropriate media, however there are many caveats.</p>

<p>There should be no difference in dragging a folder vs dragging individual files. However, I would not recommend dragging and dropping using the windows explorer interface. I would recommend building a project in roxio. </p>

<p>Do you know that your DVD writer can write ok? and can read OK? Do you know that the DVD's you are using perform acceptably with the particular writer you have? </p>

<p>This is one area where windows tries to be everything to everybody, and in doing so has failed to make this an easy project.</p>

<p>Since I think it is relevant here I'll explain the backup solution I use. After years and years, and many failed restores, what I've settled on is a backup solution where i have three external drives. One firewire, and two usb. They are all the same size. I store all of my pictures on the firewire drive, and that is where I edit them in lightroom. On a mac, I use cron to synchronize one usb to my firewire drive nightly. This protects me against drive failure. Once a week or so, I take the USB drive at home to work with me, store it in a file cabinet, and bring the other one home, it will then be synchronized to the firewire. It leaves me with a copy in at least two locations all the time. It is constantly updated and verified. It is in the same directory structure as my 'live' drive, so if I need to restore something I know right where to go. It is universal, I can access these files on any computer any time. Costs are not very much, as large usb disks are quite cheap. <br>

This setup protects against these things:<br>

failed hard drive, I never lose more than one day of work due to hard drive failure.<br>

Catastrophic environmental disaster. If there is a fire, or a tornado, or a flood, There is always an offsite copy with everything current to within one week. Everything short of a nuclear disaster.<br>

It protects me for up to one week against computer virus' as they can't possibly infect something that isn't plugged in.<br>

It is easy to manage, I don't have to fool around with individual disks. and worry about which picture is on which one.</p>

<p>Once I configure the computer to synchronize my picture folders nightly, all I have to do, is remember to change the two usb disks out regularly. I could actually do this every night, but I am lazy, and once a week suffices.</p>

<p>Over the years I've used just about every dvd burning program with numerous drives, and numerous programs. Though many do I no longer used DVD as an archival medium. Blank DVD's seem to vary quite a bit by quality particularly long term archival applications. I've had many that failed to read properly after 3 - 5 years. I was never perfect in how I stored them, i.e. I might've left doors open where they might get exposed to sunlight, and I might not have kept them at a uniform temperature and humidity.<br>

 

<p>On the other hand I know many people who do use DVD and it seems to work well for them. I suggest burning the same content to two discs made by two manufacturers. You can tell the manufacturer by looking on the clear plastic part at the center of the spindle. The name brands may be different but that doesn't mean the manufacturer is.</p>

 

</p>

<p>Try finding a setting that says "Close the disk" (or says something about not being able to write to it anymore). Sometimes "open" disks behave funny. That said, from your description it sounds like you're on target otherwise.</p>

<p>I do wonder if you're getting "Drag-to-Disk" B.S., which never seems to work right ("Drag-to-Disk" sort of just copies files on the fly, as if it were another hard disk, and not all systems can read it, though you'd think the original could!).</p>

<p>You might also try different media. Sometimes some burners don't like all media. Also check for firmware updates to your DVD burner. That often fixes incompatibilities.</p>

<p>Even if you do backup to DVD, personally I'd suggest having the data on at least 2 (separate) hard drives. Any media can fail you and you want multiple copies.</p>

<p>I'm actually hoping to get a Blue-Ray burner because at 25 gig/disk it would be much more tenable to do backups. As it stands I'm at like 25 DVDs of photos for a full set.</p>

<p>Have a great one.</p>