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Photographying WHITE Objects???


timmyp

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<p >hello everyone. i am an ametur photographer that is just starting out and could really put my camera to use for my families company who i work for. we are starting a website and i need to take high quality pictures of our products to put on our website. (i'm shooting with a cannon rebel xti) i dont have any other photography equipment other than a tripod.</p>

<p >the products are cabinet doors made out of mdf. the doors are painted with a white gloss. how can i get the best photo of these doors? what color and material of background should i use, positioning of any lighting, what kind of lighting, camera settings and anything else that would help me.</p>

<p >i have attached a quick photograph of a door that isn't painted just to give you an idea of what i'm photographing.</p>

<p >thanks so much.<br>

tim</p>

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<p>The first thing you should do is buy and read "Light -- Science & Magic" It will teach you what you need to know to do this kind of stuff.</p>

<p>You say you need to take high quality pictures for your company web site. Until you have read, learned, and practiced, I suggest you hire a professional. There is no quick and easy recipe that will get you pro-quality pictures instantly with what you have.</p>

<p>You will need a couple of studio strobes with stands and softboxes. You will need a backdrop of some kind, in a neutral color that doesn't clash with the cabinet door colors. You'll need a solid tripod and cable release. And it's often helpful to have a laptop so you can shoot tethered, seeing your images on the computer screen immediately after taking them.</p>

<p>BTW, photonet doesn't accept attachments, you need to put it inline in a post (which happens after you write the post) or host it somewhere and put a link in the post.</p>

<p>Good luck</p>

<p> </p>

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<p>I appreciate the feedback that I have received already. On the other hand, like I said I am a beginner that is willing to try different things. Budget and time are a concern though. I will need to have the pictures in a few weeks and as far as lighting and so forth...if anyone has suggestions on make shift things that I can do rather then purchasing equipment, I would greatly appreciate it.<br>

Thanks again.</p>

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I would suggest a dark backdrop so you don't have problems with shadows. Just a couple of lamps on either side should be all the light you need. You might want to vary the distance of the two lamps from the cabinet door, one closer than the other to get a bit of shadowing to show relief work, if any. You could try the automatic white balance on the camera to see how that works. If you get too much of a color cast from the artificial lights, then you will have to read the instructions of how to set a custom white balance. The white cabinets may "fool" the camera meter and come out gray. Use the EV to lighten up,( EV +1 or so).

 

I don't know how shiny these cabinet doors are. If you see too many reflections on them then you have to eliminate the reflections. The easiest way to do this is to place the door on the floor on a black backdrop with two lamps on either side in a darkened room. At night with the lights out would be ideal. Cover the lamps with towels so no light shines on you or the ceiling. If the door can't "see" anything to reflect you get no reflections.

James G. Dainis
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<p>Tim you might consider buying a small piece of MDF and paint it high gloss white and practice practice practice. Try the things you have been told, see what works and what doesn't .Do your home work so when the time comes you will be able to produce the best possible photos. And as Charles said Buy the book "Light -- Science & Magic" .</p>
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<p>The "Light: Science and Magic" book can be looked over pretty well in a weekend. It's been through about ten printings, I think. It would probably be in any large library near you. If you need a crash course faster, go over to strobist. http://www.strobist.com That website is devoted entirely to teaching people the basics of how to use a flash. After a few lessons, you would see a dramatic improvement in the quality of your photos. On the sidebar, on the right of the web page, in among some small ads, there will be a dropdown box. That box is actually a link that will get you to the older posts on the website. You want a set of posts called "Lighting 101." </p>

<p>There is a lighting forum here at photo.net; it would help to have a specific question together or to just read around; some of the people who frequent that forum are pro studio and fashion photographers. If you have a technical question, you will get an answer.</p>

<p>You need to practice. I use a bedsheet setup and a card for some tabletop shots. One of the ways I get around the "mundane" part of the backdrop is to use a variety of fabrics from the women in the family. Bedsheets, towels, curtains, old stuff thats fabric. Some of the stuff, I don't know what it is. Get 'em to group it for you. Here is a link to some ugly photos of what some of my pictures look like outside the frame. These are just snapshots to show a homemade setup. The folder that holds them is here http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=861012 </p>

<p>This picture in the folder was made with a setup, but with on-camera flash. It's how people usually use a flash. http://www.photo.net/photo/8515680 </p>

<p>Here is a picture taken with the flashes off of the camera; there's one pointed at the background to light it up; there are two, one of each side of the camera, pointed in a little to light up the plant. http://www.photo.net/photo/8515636 </p>

<p>Okay, that second picture of the half-dead poinsettia, it looks better. It looks better because of the off camera lighting. That, and this picture, http://www.photo.net/photo/8515721 which was taken at the same setup, but with some glass added, to be a little off of the table; all that's basic stuff like in Light: Science and Magic. Even if you just get the basic idea, things will go better.</p>

<p>For the cabinets; do you have a DSLR or digital camera? I wish I had them scanned in, but on that bookshelf setup,<i> I once practiced taking pictures of</i>, get this, <b>toilet paper rolls.</b> Yes, toilet paper rolls. Against a white background that was curved to go up the back wall. The reason why is because those paper rolls have a rough texture and a similar color to the white paper I was using for the background. This drill helped me a lot. Also, the candle; that picture is not very good because it was made with an experimental process; but, you can still see the snapshot of the bookshelf box I used to photo the candle. White candle, black candlestick, gray background. Light the candle. If you cannot clearly distinguish details in all those parts, including the flame; then you need exposure practice. </p>

<p>If you end up taking black and white photos of the cabinets, or digital monochromes, try this trick; get a strong red filter; or, preferred, <i>a strong blue filter</i>, if you want to show off the glossy finish. Strong blue filters are hard to focus through, but if you've got a modern camera (I don't use autofocus), it will do it for you. I assure you, for showing varnish, like on car paint, motorcycles, chrome, etc., in black and white, the blue filter is king. Filters absorb light, so you will need to add more light for the exposures. </p>

<p>I am going to go ahead and wrap up. I also write a blog; there is an article on there that talks about remembering to think of solving the exposure problems in terms of "add light" and "subtract light." The blog is <a href="http://agxphoto.blogspot.com">here.</a> The article in particular about add/subtract light is <a href="http://agxphoto.blogspot.com/2009/02/simplifying-zone-system-with-add-and.html">here.</a><br>

Hope this helps. Good luck to you. Proceed with confidence! J.</p>

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<p>What you posted is similar to what you'll see on most cabinet websites when it comes to doors-- cut out photos with no backdrop.<br>

<br /> You're not trying to shoot art, just good representations of what the customer can expect from you. I would suggest some way to soften the light and reduce some of the hard edged shadow you're getting. Don't try to remove the shadow completely-- you want some shadow to give shape to the door. Really, the easiest way will be a tent big enough to shoot the doors, but I know a lot of people hate that look.<br>

<br /> It looks like you've already figured out how to cut the doors out in photoshop, so you've got that down. If it's important to the company that the customer sees the color of the cabinet correctly, you will want to look into monitor calibration, so at least you start at your end with the correct color. Use sRGB as your colorspace unless you have a compelling reason not to. Shoot some kind of known grey or white color in the same light as the cabinet so that you will have a known reference in Photoshop or lightroom for white balance-- especially if you're using shop lights or inexpensive strobes.</p>

 

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<p>i've received many different recommendations and to be hones a bit overwhelmed at where to start. this is what i'm thinking of starting out with.<br>

i'm going to use a black sheet backdrop laying over a masonite (should i paint it white or does it matter? masonite is a brown). i'm using masonite because its inexpensive and we have some laying around the shop. is that too hard of a surface or does it matter? i'm going to try shooting in our warehouse and try and keep the area i shoot as dark as possible. i will use a couple of work lights on each side of the camera with some type of white material draping over the lights. (need suggestions on what i should cover the lights with?) i'm thinking of some how setting the door up as perpendicular to the table its sitting on to have a point of view looking straight at the door as someone would be looking at it when the door is installed in their kitchen (eye level). am i on the right track with that? should i have the lights at the same level as the camera? do i need a light source from anywhere else? also, where would you suggest i start with camera settings? i have a DSLR Cannon Rebel Xti with a 18/55mm lens. i understand i should use no on camera flash. <br>

i thank all of you very much for all your help. in these dim economic times everyone on here giving free advice is invaluable. thanks again and i will continue to check back on any other suggestions and post pictures of what i have produced and continue to tweek things to get a better picture.<br>

Thanks john for the well described feedback and suggestions. dean you are correct, i'm not trying to shoot are but rather a good representation of the door and door profiles and paths (when zoomed).<br>

Thanks again to all! (sorry in advance for typos and ramblings)<br>

tp</p>

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<p>i just went out to the warehouse to try taking a couple quick shots of a couple finished doors to post to give everyone a better idea of the finish, but i'm having some problems. i wasn't taking the pictures on very good angles, but i wanted to try and get a photo of just the door (fill the frame with just the door) and i cant get the camera to shoot. there was a lot of light shining down on the doors as i was taking them from atop a ladder shooting down. i've tried all different manual modes and different settings within modes. when i press the shutter button it trys to focus but won't. i'm guessing because the camera cant find anything to focus on because its all white. am i correct? how would i take this photo with the setup i have described in the post just above (2/26 10:20am)?<br>

i know this all may seem very beginner and fundamental with everyone, but i am a beginner that would like to learn photography but at the same time am being rushed into learning how to take these complicated photos very soon in my basic learning stages. please bare with me as all of your help and patience is much appreciated.</p>

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As long as you have the camera perpendicular to the door front so the sides and tops are parallel to the viewfinder frame it will look like you are looking straight at it.

 

Any white cloth such as bed sheet a foot or so in front of the work lights would work as diffusers. You don't want to get it hot and catch on fire, or white plexiglass would do. For what you are shooting, I don't really think you need diffusers. It would help to eliminate glare but positioning the lights should take care of that.

 

I would shoot at 30mm focal length to get a natural perspective but even that is not really necessary with the subject matter. There would be little foreshortening from a longer focal length.

 

You should get a gray card from a photo store to set the correct exposure rather than trying trial and error with the EV setting. When the lights are set up, you place the gray card on the door front and fill the frame of the viewfinder with the gray card. Then you note the indicated exposure. Let us say it is 1/60 sec at f/5.6. You set the camera to manual and set it for 1/60 sec at f/5.6. As long as the lights are the same distance from the door front (it doesn't matter where the camera is) you should be getting a correct exposure.

 

You will also have to check the manual to see how to set the custom white balance. The lights will give a yellow cast and if you don't set the white balance to compensate for that you will get yellow doors.

James G. Dainis
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Attach the backdrop to the wall and have if fall down with a gentle curve to where it goes onto the floor. Place the door on the floor leaning against the wall. Position the camera so the edges of the door, top side and bottom are parallel to the viewfinder or LCD sides.

 

I'm not familiar with that camera but you could try centering the viewfinder on the edge of a door to see if that will get focus, press the shutter in part way to lock focus and then frame the door in the center and press the shutter button in the rest of the way to shoot.

 

If that doesn't work then you will have to go to manual focus. To my way of thinking, doing everything manually is the way to get best results. Camera auto functions are primarily designed for outdoor shooting with lots of different shades of lights and darks and textures. Great for backyard barbecues but not so good for limited commercial product shots.

James G. Dainis
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<p>Here a couple quick photos to give you a better idea. the paint finish process on these two doors differ and neither will be the finished used. these paint finishes are too stipled and texturized.. we will have a much smoother finish when we get it right. but here are these for now.</p>
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<p>I apologize for writing too much. I didn't mean to smother you. I want you to proceed with confidence.</p>

<p>When you set up the lights; the angle at which that light strikes the cabinet door will count. If you get a glare or something on the door, just shift the light position. It helps to think about your setup in a "bird's eye view" if you get into troubleshooting glare. The brightness or darkness of the lighting will have more to do with the exposure. When in doubt, go a little lighter. Add light. </p>

<p>Keeping the door perpendicular to the camera (as above) will help it look like a rectangle in the picture, and make it easier to troubleshoot problems like shadows and glare. It'll keep it simple, look good, and work.</p>

<p>Lights at the same level of the camera? Can be, no trouble. I prefer higher; but, we're into getting you operational here, so no problem with the on the same level lights. </p>

<p>Raising or lowering the light will have more to do with how shadows might fall on the cabinet door. If the distance to the subject is the same, the power of the light will be the same; raising or lowering the light a few feet won't change the exposure much. Just tap a quick light meter check with the camera if you feel unsure. </p>

<p> </p>

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<p>In the pictures, posted above, I can tell the camera position was higher than the cabinet door. If you are higher or lower, there will be a subtle optical illusion caused by perspective that will make either the top end or bottom end look bigger. To make the door look like a rectangle, position the camera height on the same level as the middle of the door.</p>
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<p>i haven't did what i said yet, but let me know what you guys think of this photo. don't look so much at the camera position and cropping as i did that really quick. i shot it in manual f/7.1 .5sec iso100. i did a very slight adj in ps to the contrast and brightness. this shot was in the warehouse with alot of florescent lighting right above the door. i know its very noticeable cause you can see the dark shadows in the arches at the top of the door and the rest is fairly the same.</p>

<div>00SaSq-111906184.thumb.jpg.d3168b99984f2fbce2abc6a0edc53806.jpg</div>

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<p>Okay, if this is just for a local ad of a sale, you're probably already close to passing. The cabinet door looks square enough; you are noticing the shadows; also, you are reporting your camera settings; and thinking about the quality of light. All of those are signs of improvement. Everything you do beyond this will be a refinement. </p>

<p>It's not a "pro photo" for a national ad; but you are already stomping other beginners. Want to see some bad product photography? Head on over to some online sale places or auction sites. Look at the classified ads. Your photo already looks better than most of those. </p>

<p>Okay, there was something else I noticed; look at the color of the cabinet door at the top of the door; look at the color of the door at the bottom. The whole door is "white"; but, the white at the top and at the bottom are not the same. The white at the top is "bluer"; the white at the top is "yellowish". </p>

<p>There is an explanation about that which I just deleted; keeping it simple; you need to make the door look more like it is all the same kind of white. If you do a better setup with the flashes or with other lights besides the ones on the warehouse ceiling; a good bit of that will go away; or, at least even out. </p>

<p>I want you to have confidence in your photo; but, keep on innovating. If you build a good setup and make room for it, and get some practice using it; your photos will get better. Standardizing things in the beginning will help. Keep on working with the setup stuff. It will pay off. You can get going to where you are "passable" within a few weeks. If you kept it up for a year, working on it about every day; you could probably give that particular kind of product photo a run for anyone's money. </p>

<p>Okay, now that 1.5 second speed needs to be on a tripod. You may have the shake reduction of some kind; but all that does is make the computer in the camera work harder. The harder that computer works, the less attention and electricity it can devote to recording a smooth image. If you push the limits on the shake reduction in low light, you'll get "noise", which is kind of like "snow" on the TV set. I know the longer shutter speeds seem easier; but, you will want to use the flash more and more as you go on. The flash is your portable sunshine. It's like lightning in your pocket. </p>

<p><i>You need to add some sunshine to paint your happy trees. Yeah, I should have stuck with lightning.</i></p>

<p>I'll check back some more. You need to do more homework on the lighting of the doors. If you give up now and just photoshop it; you'll run into an obstacle later and lose. It's possible to do quick and easy sometimes; but, you're going to want a lock on this stuff because of the business. You don't need to know everything there is to know about studio lighting; but, you need to have a lock on those product photo setups. Keep on striving. It will pay off. You could end up with some serious support for your business, competent and well crafted, within a year if you keep it up. </p>

<p>That's the first thing I thought when I saw your photo. "Man, that's a pretty good shot for the first trials. Hope he doesn't quit." Continue on. J.</p>

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<p>thanks so much john for the encouraging words. i'm the type of person who lacks the confidence in most areas, and with reinforcement like that...it goes along way.</p>

<p>just to give you an update of what i have tried so far today. i took a couple of work lights (halogen bulbs) and set them up about the same height as the door on each side of the camera. i turned off the overhead florescent lighting from above (like i used in the photo above) and just used the work lights. safe to say that didnt work. the lighting is VERY yellow. i beleive that is coming from the halogen bulbs. i wonder if i put a white sheet in front of the lighting, if it would get rid of the yellow? also there is a shadow on the top edge of the door, which if i move at least one of the lights up it should get rid of that. what also may be contributing to the yellowish color on the door is the light brown/tan piece of mdf that the door is sitting on. the lighting may be reflecting some of that color onto the white door. i took the photos pretty much on the same seetings i tried before (f/5-f7.1) (.5-1sec) (100iso)</p>

<p>i want to get a more uniform color on the door like you spoke about john and is part of the reason i added the work lights. i think i moved in the wrong direction, because the photos are much worse. maybe white sheets in front of the lights and a black cloth backdrop will help!? i will try that next and if not, then i will move toward a different type of light.</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

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