Photographing a wedding as a guest - Advice needed

My sister-in-law is getting married in a couple of months, and I thought I'd use their

wedding as a chance to get a "feel" for it. I don't ever want to be a wedding

photographer (too much pressure), but this would give me a nice opportunity

for "no-risk" brownie points, as well as the potential for a few portfolio shots, and

maybe a good venue for networking etc.

 

I asked them if they thought it would be okay, as I would think that some official

wedding photographers might resent an "amateur" snooping around. Of course, I

really will probably only take candid shots, but I'd also like to do some

more "traditionally posed" shots of the couple, and maybe some of the guests.

They tell me that they;d be delighted for me to practice my skills, and that I

shouldn't worry about the other photographer as they're "paying him anyway".

 

I don't want to stand on anyones toes, and I really don't want to p!ﾣﾣ off the hired

photographer. Exactly why, I'm not sure - I just don't

 

I know the photographer comes as "part of the package" arranged by the hotel

where they are holding their reception, and so his fee for attendance is probably

quite low. Because of this, I assume he may rely on print sales for the majority of

his return.

 

I don't expect to produce any material to compete with his, but hey, if I get a

handful of lucky shots, wouldn't it be rude for me not to let the couple have access

to them, indeed I was toying with the idea of having one of those "photo-books"

printed up for them. That said, if he's a "package photographer" rather than an

independant, then I really have no idea what the quality will be like?

 

I'm taking a 5D and 20D, I'll probably use the 24-70/2.8 on the full frame 5D, with

the 70-200/2.8IS on the crop 20D for long candids. I'll also probably use the 85/1.8

for a handful of informal head shots, although I was toying with hiring the 85/1.2L

for the day, just to see what it can do. I know the wedding location doesn't allow

flash photography in the church, so I reckoned I'd stand in the gallery at the back

with the 5D on a tripod with cable release, at about ISO400 and 70-200@2.8 -

maybe with a 1.4xTC - They should be standing pretty still by then, so a relatively

long shutter would be okay, I think.

 

Any other tips would be appreciated - especially things like "how not to put the

official photographers nose out of joint". I'm not getting in his way, but I'll obviously

be doing my best to get the best shots I can.

 

Many thanks

Guy Carnegie

If you have no intention of ever being a wedding photographer I don't understand why you want to do this. If you are going to pursue some other type of photography I would put my energy towards that rather than shoot a wedding which is something you dont ever want to do.

I dont think you should try to do any posed shots and it sounds like you are going to be in the way of the other photographer.

I think "being in the way" to me means disrupting his work. I won't do that.

 

No, I want to do informal portraits, not specifically weddings. Maybe right to stay out of the way of posed shots.

 

Then again, I have no intention of ever being a landscape photographer either, but it's not going to stop me taking photos if I see a lovely vista when I'm on holiday somewhere.

 

As an enthusiast in photography, I think it's a bit too early to specialise, but who's to say if I ever decide to go down that particular road in future, that a few portfolio images would be unwelcome.

Assuming the other photographer is worth his salt - which I'm sure he will be, then I don't see any reason why he should feel uncomfortable or threatened. I'm not going to disrupt him while he's taking photos, and I'm not going to disrupt his subjects either.

 

I just wanted to confirm that in general, wedding photographers don't feel threatened by guests taking photo's. Of course, if I'm making him feel uncomfortable then all he has to do is tell me - I won't try to give him any tips or direction (as if I could!), and if he wants to give me any suggestions as to how to improve my photography, then that'd of course be welcome.

 

 

thanks

Hi Guy. Yes you will be interfering with the hired photog. You will be distracting the B&G. They will be looking at you while the should be paying attention to the hired photog. The time window for the posed formal shots is very small.

If you would like to lay back and shot candids of the action and reaction of the guest,then that would not pose any problems. Shoot the goings on of the wedding and present that to the B&G. They would like that. I would stop it at that,other wise you will be in the way.

By the way,I do shoot weddings. I have to deal with the situations as you just described. That makes my job more difficult than it should be.

Tell the b&g, who invited you to take photos, not to pay any attention to you while the photog is shooting. Shoot whatever you want <u>including the formals</u> if you like from an unintrusive angle. Use common sense in knowing that the paid photog is there to do a job that the b&g want him to do so be respectful by keeping yourself and your flash out of his way.<br>

Go ahead and print that photo book you were talking about. Don't worry about cutting into the photog's print revenue. That's his concern not yours.<br>

If he gives you trouble, tells you to stop shooting, explain to him that you're a guest invited to take photos, and take photos is what you'll continue doing. The party's about the b&g and their guests having fun, not the hired help. The hired help have a job to do and as long as you stay out of his way he'll be able to accomplish that job and make the money his talent demands.<br>

I shot a wedding last weekend and this is the conversation I heard over my

shoulder:

 

Woman (who was holding a Canon rebel): "Well I could do that, I have the same

camera they have". Man: "Um, I think their lenses are way bigger, and maybe the

camera too." Woman: "Oh well I have a bigger lens in the car!"

 

Point being, everyone who has pro or prosumer equipment now thinks that qualifies

them to shoot wedding photos. That's part of the reason why we keep getting all

these critique my work posts with stuff that looks like it was shot with a 110mm pink

barbie camera.

 

I don't profess to be the worlds greatest photographer, but I worked my behind off to

learn before I opened shop to charge people money, and it's attitudes like Mike and

Guy's that make my job so much harder.

 

There is a big difference between bringing "a" camera and shooting candids at the

reception or bringing camera equipment (i.e. two bodies, lens, etc) and setting up

your camera at the church, or shooting formals.

 

Whether you mean to or not, you will inadvertently get in the way of the real wedding

photographer, I see it all the time. It will make him mad, I'm already mad for him!

How would you feel if he came to your shoots and just shot around you? Of course

the bride and groom won't say no, they're free shots of their wedding day, and they

don't know any better to understand that you are going to make his job harder, and

the "moments" you are getting might be the same ones he's standing beside you to

get. So, what? You should sell yours instead of him, even though it's his job? Or

lose sales for him because you are supplementing the B & G with those shots?

What you are intending is unprofessional, and as a person who claims to be a

photographer I expect better from you on behalf of the man who is working this

wedding for a living.

Check this thread: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00PWPf&unified_p=1

 

Also, no one seems to have suggested the obvious: Ask the photographer.

 

I actually did this a year & a alf ago at my wife's best friends wedding. I used no flash, stayed out of his way, occasionally helped by finding people, and I got some neat shots that he posed, and gave them to my wife, as she was a bridesmaid.

 

But I also spoke w/ the photog & made sure he was ok with it. I saw his shots - MUCH better than mine. And we even talked shop a little as he waited for ppl to get into position.

 

In short - no here knows what the photog will want (unless s/he's o here). So ask. And respect his decision.

This would be on the 24th, bride & groom 1st intials are S & T. If so, please contact me - I will be there & would like to get lots of pictures & stay out of the way. :)

In my opinion pitching up as a guest at a wedding, lugging two chunky SLR's with big fat lenses in daft. It will draw lots of attention to yourself and immediately set off alarm bells with the official photographer. I would never do that as it would make me feel very uncomfortable. I recently attended a wedding in Italy as a guest and only took my 5D with a Tamron 28-75mm and a 50mm F1.8, that's it, no flash. It all fitted into a small camera bag and was small enough not to make a spectacle of myself. The 5D with a 50mm F1.8 and ISO 3200 is pretty good! In summary I suggest a single body with maybe one or two small lenses. This setup will allow you to get good portfolio shots, assuming you have some ability. But, each to his own.

As long as you stay out of the photographers way, and you don't distract the bride

and groom while the photographer is trying to work, then how can there be a

problem? Make sure the wedding photographer knows he has priority. No one yet

has mentioned talking to the photographer and telling him your situation. If he has a

problem, I don't think that necessarily means you should leave your camera at

home, but do your best to stay away. I don't think any wedding photographer has

any right to tell you not to take pictures at the wedding of someone you are close to.

The ceremony and set up shots are the wedding photographer's. The rest is fair

game. Have fun and good luck shooting.

I actually wrote an article on this subject for photo.net. But I really didn't like the way it came together and I couldn't get it to "feel" right. Writer's/editor's block I guess.

 

The short version:

 

1. Talk to the bride and see if the photographer is working on a "print sales" or a "package price" basis. If the pro isn't doing print sales, then you won't have to worry as much about stealing their kids dinner money. If they are, the polite thing to do would be to not give the B/G access to your images until AFTER the pro has made a majority of his/her sales.

 

2. Talk to the pro photographer when you get there. Let them know what's up and that you won't be in their way.

 

4. Stay out of the pro photographer's way. I can't stress this enough. Anyone in your position who steps in front of the pro photographer's lens to get a better shot if "the kiss" deserves to be punched in the nose.

 

5. Don't repeat the pro's shots. He/she will be better equipped and better skilled to shoot the formals and other standard photos. Repeating them will be a waste of precious time (which there never seems to be enough of at a wedding) and an annoyance to the photographer and probably the wedding party (who will be sick of standing still and smiling). I would be pissed if I couldn't find the parents of the bride because some other photographer had them off trying to re-take photos I had already done.

 

6. Play to your strengths. The photographer can't be everywhere at once, so take the candids that he/she won't see. You probably have the advantage of being friends with a number of the wedding guests, they will be at ease with you and your camera. Take advantage of that. These are the moments that people really cherish.

 

7. Did I mention staying out of the pro photographer's way? I can't stress this enough.

Howdy!

 

I only have one rule regarding other photographers:

 

Nobody except me shooting during formals.

 

Chances are, if you follow this one simple rule, you will be OK.

 

Later,

 

Paulsky

Everyone has a camera. Wedding photographers need to accept that.<br>

Definitely the wedding photographer should be given priority in all situations. Not because he is the great and powerful everybody stay out of my way I am the learned photographer, but out of respect for the b&g because his work is costing money. If he takes them off to the side for a shoot, be respectful and don't follow, but shoot all you want.<br>

If you're off to the side, not taking the attention of the photog's subjects, he should be able to control his anger issues (that you may have dared to bring more than one body/lens, and god forbid you have an slr!) and he'll do a good job.<br>

As for prints, and lost revenue. Hey, if your photos are just as good as the photog's photos (and how could they possibly be - you're not the 'qualified' photographer), why should the b&g have to shell out more money? The photog's already had his fee for being there, setting up the scenes, and capturing everything professionally. And because you were respectful and stayed out of his way during, he was given the choice location to shoot from so his photos better be superior to your snapshots.<br>

Myself, I'd concentrate on the things the photog wasn't pointing his lens at. That said, weddings aren't about photographers monopolizing the light in order to make a living. I'd have no feelings of guilt whatsoever for capturing a shot that the photog was hoping to sell.<br>

I agree with Josh. However, I just want to add that there is no black and white, as usual, with this issue. Some pros WILL feel threatened just by seeing you with all that gear, which is at the pro level, particularly if the pro has equal or 'lesser' gear. Some pros don't care and would welcome some 'help' and the chance to direct you so that the efforts on both of your parts are cooperative and benefit the couple. I suggest trying to talk to the photographer beforehand and then seeing where you are, keeping your ego out of this. It is that simple.

 

It would be polite to withhold your images until the couple sees the professional ones. You can determine how to handle that after YOU see the professional ones. Keep in mind that an image looks much better to a person if they are getting it free. Josh's suggestion about finding out how the pro is charging is a good one. Remember, it is about the couple and their wedding, not about your having fun shooting. If a choice has to be made, it should support the couple.

<p>Depends on personalities as much as anything. I think the fact that you've

asked this question makes it unlikely that you're the type of person who'll get in the

way. I guess it depends if they feel uncomfortable - though I can't think of any

reason why they should. There's certainly no reason why anyone's nose should be

'out of joint' - photographers at weddings are pretty thick on the ground these

days.</p>

 

<p>My advice would be shoot what you want, and give it to whomever you want.

Most of the other guests will share their pictures with the bride and groom so no

reason for you not to do so as well. Be mindful of the formals, though in case you

disrupt the flow. Most professionals generally make a point of giving guests access

once they've got their shots, so suggest just wait for the right moment.</p>

 

<p>Nadine's point about deferring showing your pictures until after the couple has

seen the professional ones is interesting. I'm sure it's certainly polite, and that's no

bad thing. But again, personalities and approaches are different so YMMV. You can

bet that other guests won't be so accommodating, so I'm not sure if there's any

reason for you to consider yourself a special case.</p>

"I'm taking a 5D and 20D, I'll probably use the 24-70/2.8 on the full frame 5D, with the 70-200/2.8IS on the crop 20D for long candids. I'll also probably use the 85/1.8 for a handful of informal head shots, although I was toying with hiring the 85/1.2L for the day, just to see what it can do. I know the wedding location doesn't allow flash photography in the church, so I reckoned I'd stand in the gallery at the back with the 5D on a tripod with cable release, at about ISO400 and 70-200@2.8 - maybe with a 1.4xTC - They should be standing pretty still by then, so a relatively long shutter would be okay, I think."

 

Sounds pretty obnoxious to me, and I don't even mind when guests are shooting weddings I'm hired to do. How about seeing what you can do with a minimum of equipment? Say the 5D with a straight 50? I understand, I can't go anywhere without my cameras either, but please keep it in perspective. you are a guest; enjoy yourself!

 

Also, the pro's contract probably states their policy on other photographers. It doesn't matter if they're "paying him anyway" if they agreed to and signed a contract that says no other photographers. I think the very best idea is to either lay low (leave the heap of gear at home or in the car), or contact the photographer, and ask about their policies well ahead of time.

Ty is right, ask the photographer.

 

When I take my camera to a wedding I just take pictures of the guests. The guests will also be dressed nicely. Ask some of them to pose for you. I went to a wedding 2 days ago. I'd say that 90% of the photos taken by the pro were of the bride, groom, and immediate family. Many of the guests flew 3000 miles for this wedding but the pro doesn't have time to take pics of them so I only take pics of them. I don't spend a lot of time editing them but the bride and groom are always happy to see pics of cousins, uncles, former college friends, etc. even if they aren't pro quality.

Guy, I haven't read the whole thread, but have shot a lot of weddings.

 

If you really want to be of service to the bride and groom and their families, and to improve your photographic skills, shoot the relationships, emotions, and "moments" at the wedding that the pro is not able to cover, and do it away from where (s)he is working.

 

For example, while the pro is shooting the wedding party, pose the youngest and oldest family members together. Do family portraits of the bride's friends with hubby and child(ren). Pose four generations of males or females from a family together; get a group shot of all mums with babies. You get the drift.

 

Also, while the pro is concentrating on the speakers during the toasts, get tight reaction shots of the laughter and tears of parents, grandparents, and close friends in the audience.

 

Your photos will delight everyone, and provide a priceless record that the pro did not have time to shoot, and was not expected to create. You will advance your skills while showing professional courtesy to the pro, and demonstrating your respect and affection for your sister-in-law and family in a lasting way.

 

You will also have a lot of fun, without the pressure that the pro is under to get everything just right, first time, and on schedule. Enjoy the day!

I hope I didn't come across as being obnoxious, it's certainly not my normal "style", but apologies if anyone thought I was. I wanted to give you an idea of the type of equipment I was intending taking so you could understand why I might be worried about making the pro feel uneasy.

 

I am not a photographer by trade, and am only a photographer by hobby. I don't call myself a photographer. I don't think my equipment is anything special, and most of it could certainly not be called "top end", although it pretty much does what I need it to in the studio. Of course, if the photographer is a "tech-head" then I assume he'll have more expensive equipment than me anyway. If not, and I hope not, then I don't think equipment will matter.

 

I would bring only one body and a couple of lenses, but I figured for candids two bodies might allow me quicker access to long and short setups. I hope no-one thinks I was trying to look flashy - hey look at me I've got two cameras! Who cares? If I was a tech-head, I think I'd have something newer and fancier than a 5D and 20D. They are functional, but minimal (logo's taped out too), and I wouldn't have to hire the 85/1.2 to see what all the fuss was about, I'd have one in my cupboard already, whether it was a good lens or not - so long as it looks expensive..

 

The last thing I want to do is get in the photographers way, so as far as the formals go, I'll only take pictures once the pro gives way to the guests.

 

That said I'm mainly looking for a fine art portrait type of shot, informal but unmistakeably oozing the "happiness" that you see in the faces of a newlywed couple. not something I'm going to get by shooting formals of the guests, so I'll need to concentrate on the happy couple to a certain degree, but probably more when they're at ease away from the posed formal shots.

 

Maybe the ceremony pictures wouldn't be such a great idea this time, although I'd love to try ceremony shots sometime - such a beautiful moment, and I'd like to do something arty with those pictures. Not something you get access to every day though, unless you set it up for yourself - which I might consider doing at some point. The shot of the couple standing at the altar with the rays of light streaming in on them is hard to beat, and as someone who always has his mind on the photograph, I'd feel that'd I'd missed out on something, knowing that the guys at the back was getting it all and I'm stuck half way along the third row with my camera under the pugh.

 

I guess it is harder for the pro to stay professional than it is for me, because he's the only one who's professional in the first place. Of course I can stay courteous and friendly, and ensure I don't distract his subjects while he's shooting, or distract him either - at least no more than any other guest would.

 

Jims first response asked why I would want to do this, if I don't have any intention of ever being a wedding photographer. I guess some of it is because I want to try out many avenues of photography, and that I'd like to give the b&g the option of having some more images shot from a different perspective, but also because I want to get decent pictures of my friends and family at the wedding for myself without paying through the nose. Note that I'm not saying the going rate is too high for the market - just that it's too high for my pocket right now. Nothing wrong with that, surely.

 

I have no idea what's in the contract, but I think the B&G's contract is with the hotel, who in turn supplied the package which includes the photograper. No mention of the package including the photographs - just the photographer - hence my suspicion that much of the photo revenue for this wedding may come from print sales. Neither b or g are well known for reading contracts particularly well.

 

I've never heard of a contract where other photographers are excluded, but as I've mentioned earlier, I'm not a photographer, just an enthusiastic hobbyist, so I'm guessing such clauses would only apply to other hired professionals.

 

Of course, I hear the case that anyone who takes pictures is a photographer, but that would have to include Aunt Mabel with her kodak instamatic, unless you're of the mind that it's the camera that makes the photographer. Something I believe firmly against.

 

I do see that amateurs with ever smarter cameras definitely make it harder for professionals to make a decent living, as much of the market will happily accept a correctly exposed photograph as a good photograph. IMHO that is the price of progress (progress driven by the camera manufacturers and not by the people actually using the equipment). Photography is not the only field in which professionals are forced to move with the times. After all, what are modern entry level DSLR's designed for if it not to make it easier for people with less experience to produce better shots, which in some cases will rival those produced by some professional photographers - of course in many cases they will not. For gods sake "smile detection"! What next? What these cameras do NOT provide are the other services offered by a professional photographer, such as people organising, printing, and presentation etc - and I'm sure a lot more.

 

I want to produce images that look professional, perhaps with a different slant, for my own satisfaction. I'm not looking to replace, or hinder, the photographer.

 

 

thanks for the suggestions.

Guy

Guy,

 

Go and take pictures and have a good time. Be courteous and stay out of the photographers way and all that. That is expected. But there is no reason you can't take pictures as well. And you may very well get some shots that the bride and groom will treasure. The photographer is being paid to do a job. If you want to be polite, meet/call him/her ahead of time and let them know what your intentions are and have them make some suggestions. There are places where you could be in the way otherwise. But there is NO reason for you to feel like you should not be able to add some additional images to the mix for the couple. Just be mindful of your positioning and stay behind/beside the photographer. They should have the attention of the couple and guest, not you. If you can find a way to do that and get some good shots, go for it. It is absurd that others are telling you otherwise.

I agree with "take just the 5D and a 50MM & flash" You'll force yourself to be more creative, and there'll be less hardware to prevent you from having a good time or get swiped!

 

If you really want to go nuts shooting a wedding, find someone looking for a second shooter.

 

If you attend a wedding, looking like a pro,with all kinds of gear around your neck, this would be enough to make any wedding photographer wonder "Who's this Guy?" Pun intended.

I have shot in this situation and the rule is to NOT get in the way of the paid photographer, especially doing formals. Many people in attendance are going to be taking pictures not knowing the difference between their snapshot and a professional photograph. They will not be placing orders anyway.

 

As for lenses, taking a longer focal length lens will allow you to stay out of the way of the professional photographer and to grab moments in the distance. I would take my 70-200 2.8 IS even though many people will mistake you for the paid photographer. ON the 5D this will be real nice. Since you actually know the people in attendance and can gauge what is happening you have a great advantage over the paid photographer who knows nobody and has to get all the mandatory shots of people he has never met before. Let him do his job and you be a 2nd or 3rd shooter. This winter I attended a very nice wedding at the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens that had two paid shooters plus video. My cousin was disappointed in that they concentrated on the standard shots and formals and did not do a good job covering the event. This family is a rambunctious one and things get pretty wild. They wanted to capture that. Fortunately, I did.

 

Get insurance on the equipment. If you are afraid to take it out, you should not buy it in the first place.

"I asked them if they thought it would be okay, as I would think that some official wedding photographers might resent an "amateur" snooping around."

 

Asking the couple will have no effect as to whether the photographer will be resentful, bothered or encumbered in their job.

 

"and that I shouldn't worry about the other photographer as they're "paying him anyway"."

 

Someone suggested this is the photographers problem, not yours. You're the one who mentioned the desire not to alienate the photographer so it IS your issue, Actually, its the couple's problem too but they don't realize it. The potential for distraction is very high and that can effect the results.

 

"I really will probably only take candid shots"

 

If this is away from the area where formals are being taken or other posed shots, the potential for causing interference or any actual difficulties will be greatly diminished. You can practice formals with others on other occasions in a more properly paced enviornment. Testing out one's skills at someone else's wedding probably not the best way to seek "brownie points" even though the couple is "delighted" in principle.

 

If you intend to shoot formals and not cause the pro grief, I suggest consulting the pro about the best means to do so. (Don't be suprised if they indicate that time limits and the inevitable distractions will be very disruptive). If you shoot candids only away from formal sessions and poses and do not agressively occupy the scenes that the pro is trying to shoot, you should be all set.