Photographing A School Play - HELP

Hi.

 

I'm a freelance photographer (self taught) who mainly works in portraits/journalism, though I've done

some wedding and event photography.

 

Here is my current gear:

 

Digital Rebel

5D

17-85IS

50 mm 1.8

75-300 4-5.6

580 EX

monopod/tripod

bounce and light box for flash

 

I've been asked to photograph a school play. It's the dress rehearsal, so flash is allowed and I'm free to

move around the auditorium as I choose.

 

At weddings I've used the 5D plus the 50mm (no flash) and the Rebel plus 17-85 with the flash/bounce

simultaneously.

 

Occasionally putting on the 75-300, if needed during ceremony.

 

Though I want to use the 5D (because I've switched to it a few months ago and I love it) with the 50mm,

I know it won't give me the zoom I could probably use for something like this - but I am free to move

and the quickness of the lens could be helpful.

 

or I could use the rebel with the 17-85 for a bit more zoom and the IS. Either one with a flash.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

- Kristina

I'm not sure how the list of my gear got all jumbled, but for clarification it's:

Rebel, 5D, 17-85IS, 50mm 1.8, 75-300,4-5.6, 580EX, monopod/tripod, bounch and light

box for flash.

I strongly recommend *not* using the flash. Even though it's a dress rehearsal, at best the flash is distracting. You'll have problems with the white balance as the flash color temp is a lot higher than the stage lighting, unless you gel it with a CTO gel. And you'll also have metering problems balancing the flash with the ambiant stage lighting.

 

Instead, you should use the high ISO performance of the 5D. As you know, you can get extremely clean prints up to 11x14 at 1600ISO with little or no noise reduction. The 50mm will do well, but I would recommend trying to buy or rent a 85 f/1.8 or 135 f/2. Your best shots will be those where you isolate one or two kids in the frame. With the 50mm you'll be pretty close to the stage and that can be distracting too. With the longer lens, you can always back up in the theater for a wider shot. You're best lens for this kind of work is the 70-200 f/2.8L IS, but it's a little pricey. However, if you do weddings, you might find this lens very useful.

 

One more point... Pay attention to your histogram! You will need to play with the exposure compensation as the lighting changes, especially for those dark scenes where the actor is spot lighted. It's very easy to blow out the highlights (i.e., faces).

Since you can use flash, fast lenses are not necessary, but they are nice as flash has a tendency to ruin the carefully created lighting in the play. Having photographed several college plays I would suggest you rent the 70-200 f2.8 IS and forgo the flash by shooting at 800-1600. I think you'll find the final look much nicer than flash.

I have done this a few times in the past and I agree that you should not use flash, it can certainly be distracting but also a bit dangerous when kids are moving around on the stage and are blinded by the flash. You will be less distracting close up with a 50mm than anywhere else with a flash

 

I have found that the 5D even at ISO 1600 creates a good quality image. Most of our wedding ceremony shots are RAW images at 1600ISO. Given the low light situations, one of the the keys to success is to think like a sports photographer and look for the apex of motion. So whenever there is dancing or movement try to shot when there is that hesitation and the motion stops before things or people move in another direction. You will have more usable sharp images, even in extreme low light.

 

If you want to use a longer lens, then I would recommend a tripod, since hand holding the 70-200 2.8 lens with slow shutter speeds really takes some practice.

IF they asked you to shoot, consider taking an extra hour and have the director setup scenes from the play. Shoot them as carefully as you would any other portrait setting. Get creative with angles. You will get better images that represent the play and you will have a lot more "keepers". And don't forget the big cast and crew shot at the end (or beginning;)Always a good seller!

 

just my 2 cents worth...

Kristina, if you have time to think about it (and if it applies in case this is a play with a cast with a lot of people) try and ensure that you get a shot of all the participants. There's nothing worse than a kid discovering that he or she was the only one not worth shooting live on stage!<br>Have Fun!

You identification of the camera doesn't quite make sense. There is no "Rebel 5D." The 5D

is a full-frame body, and the digital Rebels (300D, 350D/XT, and 400D/XTi) are smaller,

crop sensor bodies. Since you mention that you have used the 17-85mm EFS lens, I'll

assume that you are using a Rebel... and not the 5D.

 

If you can, shoot a dress rehearsal. You'll get better shooting positions, and you won't

have to worry so much about interfering with the audience.

 

I've done this and had good success using several techniques and a variety of equipment.

The 50mm f/1.4 is a great tool for this on a crop sensor body, especially if you can get a

decently close position and use a tripod or monopod. Don't fear the higher ISO settings -

the extra bit of noise will probably not bother anyone with this sort of shooting.

 

If possible, I'd steer clear of using the flash. Not only does it interfere with and distract the

performers, but it kills any interesting theatrical lighting. Shooting with only the stage

lighting can be more effective.

 

Since you'll probably be shooting at low shutter speeds, in addition to using

tripod/monopod, try to time our shots to catch actors in relatively static positions. It won't

always work, so make _many_ exposures and edit out the clunkers afterwards.

 

As pointed out above, if you can actually get a chance to have them do some posed shots

you can better control things and get some really fine images - but I would augment them

with shots from the dress rehearsal.

I've shot several of these from the front rows. I use an XTi and 70-300IS and 24-105IS, as well as 50mm 1.8 and 85 1.8 no flash. Using ISO 800 in good strong light and 1600 in lower light I never have noise problems.

 

Since you will be closer, I think the 17-85 IS will give you plenty of range. The IS is great for this work, but be careful. When they are moving fast you will get blur. I try to shoot at the peak of a movement. See the link for an idea of what I mean. Some shots from a recent 12th night performance shot form the front rows.

 

http://www.pbase.com/bob_osullivan/chs_12th_night

 

If you were to buy/borrow anything for this, I'd get a 85 1.8 and or 70-300 IS.

I see the following issues:

 

 

1. lens speed. The 50mmF1.8 is the only lens (apropos speed) that is adequately suited for broad range Available Light work.

 

 

2. definitive EV: the lighting range is unknown (or not mentioned in the post)

 

 

3. FL / lens reach: at speed, you have a relative FoV 50mm and 80mm only.

 

 

4. complete lens compatibility: the convenience of the 17 to 85 and its IS cannot be utilized with Low Light capacity of the 5D.

 

 

5. ignorance of performance details / lack of specialized experience.

 

 

 

Addressing the above:

 

 

 

1. 2. & 5. I too agree that stage lighting (i.e. no flash) will give a warmer and more artistic image. The problem is that the intensity (and quality) of stage lighting varies from venue to venue (a school is less likely to have lighting banks as powerful as a professional theatre) and, it varies from scene to scene (eg. all full banks, to one spot).

 

 

In regard to the last point: note well the advice given by Mr Trayers specifically mentioning spot lights and blowing the highlights in the skin tones of faces.

 

 

With Av Light shooting, Fast Lenses are your friend, as lens sped will always be the primary defining exposure element.

 

 

Both the zooms you have a varying aperture, (i.e. the maximum aperture varies throughout the zoom range): for practical purposes we must therefore view them both as F5.6 lenses.

 

 

Let us for example, interrogate 2 of Mr O`Sullivan`s 12th Night examples:

 

 

4741: 1/30sec @ F5 @ ISO 800 +2/3 stops (equiv ISO 1250) FL 170mm Rebel XTi

 

 

4774: 1/100sec @ F4 @ ISO 800 +2/3 stops (equiv ISO 1250) FL 70mm Rebel XTi

 

 

From the details in the post, and the EXIF data, we must conclude that both these images were shot with IS on.

 

 

Points to note: 4741, the photographer has waited and captured the subjects at a time of minimum subject movement.

 

 

4774: (relative to 4774) even increasing the exposure by two stops, the shutter speed was inadequate to freeze the motion. (IS does not freeze subject motion)

 

 

4741 & 4774: (it appears) that there is close to full lighting banks in both scenes, and it is a fairly broad spread (read quite a lot of lights): the point being F1.8 to F5.6 is really useful, especially the faster end if not all the lights are lit.

 

 

3 & 5. Noted that you can move around the auditorium. Can you work from the wings? Is the seating tiered? Can you stand on the seats?

 

 

If you are (forced) to work with a 50mm lens (i.e. if the other two lens are too slow) then the Camera`s Viewpoint Height will become critical to avoid `up the nose shooting`. Obviously the greater the FL the further the working distance the less the `up the nose` angle

 

 

4. Is merely an issue stated: and for future thought when expanding your kit. But if you are considering renting, borrowing or buying a lens for this gig, obviously I suggest it be an EF lens, not an EF-S lens.

 

 

Practical bottom line with gear at hand:

 

 

5D + EF 50mmF1.8

 

 

Rebel + EF-S 17 to 85F4.5 ? 5.6 IS + 580EX

 

 

1. If possible get some light meter readings before the event so you have some idea of what EV range to expect. Forewarned is forearmed

 

 

2. Interrogate the Director & Lighting Technician, and have a copy of their scripts, sop you know the scenes and the scene changes.

 

 

3. (assumed) you will be photographing what is known as the `Full Dress Rehearsal` which goes from the top in full kit, full lighting and full audio without stopping, before this event there must `Rehearsals` get to one of them and PLAN.

 

 

4. Not sure if the 75 to 300 one of the IS versions? It just might be useful, have it at hand: personally I would like it used on the 5D only, for two reasons: 1. you have a short lens at the ready on the Rebel and 2. take advantage op the 5D low light capacity and push the ISO to work the lens at F6 or F7, if possible.

 

 

5. Whilst I agree in theory, it would be better not to use flash in general, do not hesitate to use the 580EX bounced off the box / diffused you have, or just use its built in reflector, bounce at 45.

 

 

In this regard, ensure you are full bottle on the uses of the 580EX.

 

 

The real bottom line:

 

 

The point is getting USEABLE MULTIPLE captures of EVERY child is the most important goal.

 

 

Balancing flash lighting temperature, artistic moody shots, et al I am not dismissing, just prioritizing what is most important for the School and the Parents: they are the clients: get very kid and get multiple shots of them AND multiple shots of the WHOLE CAST and CREW (the CREW is often forgotten.)

 

 

WW

 

Thank you for everyone's great advice.

 

I've rented (and tested) the 70-200 IS lense, which I'll use on the 5D. After having tested

the lens, I'll definitely use a tripod - its much heavier than I'm used to!

 

I'm getting to the theater VERY early to get settled, check out the size of the space, etc. I

have a good understanding of the play, as I used to be a musical theater performer before

getting into photography.

 

I feel pretty prepared and I definitely appreciate all the useful advice! Thanks again.

 

Best,

kristina

That's a great lens to rent! Good choice.

 

However, if you are shooting from the back of the room (as the audience and the actors in a non-rehearsal show might prefer) you will probably be better off with the Canon 100-400 or use the lens you have just rented with the 1.4 extender. I just finished shooting a high school play this past weekend and used the rented Canon 100-400 with excellent results (from about 45 rows back). Unless you are very close to the stage, the 17-85mm and the 85mm (both of which I also used last weekend for that play) will be useless to you.

 

Flash - um, never for the real show.

 

You should not need a tripod. The IS on either the 100-400 or the 70-200 should suit you fine.

William W wrote:

 

<blockquote><i>1. lens speed. The 50mmF1.8 is the only lens (apropos speed) that is adequately suited for broad range Available Light

work</i></blockquote>

 

<p>Not necessarily true in this particular situation. The following was shot with the 24-105 f/4 lens...</p>

 

<p><img src="http://www.gdanmitchell.com/images/JamoFiddler20070331.jpg"></p>

 

<p>(More <a href="http://www.gdanmitchell.com/2007/03/23/another-approach-to-shooting-indoor-natural-light/">here</a>)</p>

 

<p>As I mentioned above, for this particular kind of work - photographing the school drama production - the noise issues that might cause you to

<i>need</i> a very fast prime for certain other kinds of work are not nearly as critical. Good work can be done this way.</p>

 

<p>Dan</p>

Dan, that is an excellent example of watching for the highlights and not blowing out the faces. Here is an example of a shot I new was coming up and I dialed down the EC. I think this was at -1.5<p>

<img src="http://www.trayersphotography.com/share/photos/bmn_fall07_0758.jpg"><p>

More <a href="http://www.trayersphotography.com/share/bmn_blackdog/">HERE</a>

>>> Not necessarily true in this particular situation. <<< (DM)

 

 

Yes, I understand your meaning, as explained by the example and your text.

 

 

My sentence quoted, was not meant to exclude: `try to time our shots to catch actors in relatively static positions.` as mentioned by you, and using slower (than F1.8) lenses and using IS or a tripod etc.

 

 

I choose my words quite carefully and it was a general comment to fit into the context of the thread.

 

 

Note the words `adequately suited for broad range Available Light work`: `Broad Range` = Meaning that if it was really low EV one does need a lens faster than F4, even if IS is available in the slower lens.

 

 

Moreover, the other two lenses mentioned in the thread are, as I pointed out, effectively F5.6 lenses (one stop slower than the 24 to 105 cited in your example, and I was unsure if the tele zoom was an IS version: not to mention the expectation of perhaps poorer optics of these two lenses, apropos contrast, compared to faster L series zoom lenses, for example.

 

 

So the comment quoted was general and in the context of the above points.

 

 

In summary, I was stressing the fact that lens speed will be the first exposure criteria that will make or break a possible shot.

 

 

As a statement of fact, and even excluding (high) noise as an issue, one WILL run out of shutter speed, more quickly using an F5.6 lens, (or F4 lens) than if one were using an F1.8 lens.

 

 

This fact does not exclude the fact that MANY theatre shots can be captured, as you demonstrated, at 1/50 sec with a (quality) F4 IS lens and in that regard I stressed that an accurate EV of the stage lighting range would be appropriate for planning a successful shoot.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

WW

Fair enough comments, William. :-)

 

Nice shot, Dave! And thanks for the reminder to point out that blowing out the highlights is

really more of a danger with stage lighting than underexposure. Use that histogram!

 

Dan