shotz Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Just a quick poll - I have long used photo-flo and hung my B&W negs without squeegee and all was fine. Now I am using Jobo and I am not supposed to use it with my film on those plastic reels. So I take a few rolls and after processing and washing just hang them up and sqeegee them. Seems OK to me so far. Can you guys weigh in on the issue of drying without photo-flo? ANy problems I just haven't stumbled onto yet? Any other choices when doin' the Jobo thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_goldfarb Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Well, if you're not getting drying marks, there's no reason to use PhotoFlo. I've switched to Sistan, which protects the emulsion from pollutants as well as containing a mild wetting agent to prevent drying spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd frederick Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Photo-flo is simply a purified detergent that breaks water surface tension and allows the water to dry in a thin even sheet over the film surface. You could use a drop of ordinary liquid laundry detergent but it would probably leave a soapy scum. You should use something to break surface tension on the final water soak, but I do not like photo-flo since it seems to leave a slight residue. I much prefer Edwal LFN. This comes in a small squeeze bottle and you use only one or two drops in the tank of water. It lasts a long time and leaves no residue. Excellent improvement over Photo-flo, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_. Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I use Photo-Flo but only a couple drops in a 2-reel tank, then squeegee with my fingers and hang to dry in one of those vinyl hanging boxes with the internal frame and front zippers (for want of a better term)they sell to keep clothes clean & moth-free in closet storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkbmac Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I use sistan for the reasons stated above. I also soak my reels in a hot water / amonia solution for 15 mins or so to get rid of all the crud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_rannells Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Photo-flo is OK for plastic reels. I'm sure Jobo was referring to C-41 stabilizer which is Photo-flo type solution with formaldehyde. It is the formaldehyde that breaks down plastic. Don't be afraid to use Photo-flo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene crumpler Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 You can also do the final rinse in distilled water and use photo-flo or not. I do every thing I can do to keep anything from touching the surface of my negatives. After the rinse, I hang up and let dry without any contact with the surfaces of the film. I get then down and into protectors as soon as they dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_waller Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Why can't you use wetting-agent with Jobo reels? I use Paterson plastic reels and wetting-agent (Paterson) and have done for twenty years without a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_walton2 Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 With most every persons water quality, there are always sediment unless you use distilled. Usually, if you don't use an end run there will be residue. I used to use PF but years ago I switched to LFN and have never looked back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 No one has mentioned Agfa's Agepon.... I got a couple of bottles of this in a Porter's grab bag many, many years back. A couple of drops in a tank seems to be plently. It's easy to get too much wetting agent for the task, so it seems that very small quantitites go a long way and perform more as intended. Over the years, I've had people mention a haze on their negatives and it usually leads to a finding of wetting agent over-dosing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_philopena1 Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Regardless of which wetting agent you use, Sistan, Photo-Flo, Stabilizer, Dawn dishwashing detergent, etc., you will eventually build up a gummy deposit on your reels that's almost impossible to completely remove. You'd have to scrub with a toothbrush and an acidic cleanser after each use to avoid these deposits. It doesn't matter if they're stainless or plastic, Jobo or Paterson, after time it will happen. Stainless reels however, will not be affected as much by this buildup, plastic will become a bear to load. This is why Jobo will recommend you perform these processes off the reel. The other downside to this is those minute amounts of wetting agent clinging to your reel will affect the development of the film in the vicinity of the deposits by changing the surface tension and the specific gravity of the developer. See Patrick Grainer's discussion of aggitation or rumination on the Nov/Dec issue of Photo Techniques. Some of his discussion applies. Your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_frost1 Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 I think the biggest problem with using Kodak Photo-flo is the 1:200 concentration is just way too much. I use it in distilled water for the final rinse at 1:2000 (1ml eyedropper in 2 litres distilled water) This is plenty to break the surface tension in distilled water. No squeege or fingers on my film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patric_dahl_n Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 James Philopena wrote:<BR><BR><I>Regardless of which wetting agent you use, Sistan, Photo-Flo, Stabilizer, Dawn dishwashing detergent, etc., you will eventually build up a gummy deposit on your reels that's almost impossible to completely remove. You'd have to scrub with a toothbrush and an acidic cleanser after each use to avoid these deposits. <BR><BR> It doesn't matter if they're stainless or plastic, Jobo or Paterson, after time it will happen. Stainless reels however, will not be affected as much by this buildup, plastic will become a bear to load. This is why Jobo will recommend you perform these processes off the reel. </I><BR><BR> I have used wetting agent in my Paterson tank for 17 years, and never had this problem you're talking about. After the process I always rinse the tank and reel under the tap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian_c._miller Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 When I used Photo-flo, my stainless steel reels would have some kind of a film on them. I switched to Edwal LFN with distilled water, and my developing equipment has been clean sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphicjoe Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 I have some plastic reels that I have used since 1980, usually with some PhotoFlo used in the final rinse. I have never noticed any kind of deposits on these reels. It seems doubtful to me that the tiny amount of PhotoFlo that I am using could cause any kind of a deposit to build up. Perhaps some other chemical or reaction of chemicals is the problem. I have learned the hard way to let nothing touch wet film. I end all processing with a bath in distilled water with one drop of PhotoFlo added to facilitate run off. It works great for me; the finished negatives are clean and free of water spots and are not damaged mechanically. Joe Stephenson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne_crider4 Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 I use nothing but fltered water and have no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_newton1 Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 I use one drop of liquid dishwashing detergent in 500ml for med format and the film dries streak and watermark free after squeegee with fingers wet from the detergent water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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