Permission to shoot INSIDE a public restaurant?

<p>Hey there everybody! I've been thinking about doing a series of photos inside of a restaurant. It's not a super fancy type of place, it's more like an amusement/family restaurant that has food as well as fun little areas to kids (like an arcade etc...). It's an amazing place that I used to go to when I was a kid, and I still take my niece and nephews there when I can.</p>

<p>There's always people there shooting pics of their families and all that... so at first I thought I would just go shoot without asking. BUT the lighting is kinda dark, so I might want to bring a tri/mono pod for some longer exposures. This is what makes me wonder if I should ask for permission or not...</p>

<p>What would you do?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>well, it's a restaurant, therefore it'd be a private business. and you want to setup tripods and whatever else with kids running all over.</p>

<p>and do this w/o permission and (probably) insurance?</p>

<p>There is no such thing as a public restaurant (unless you count cafeterias in public buildings and then other rules may apply). Someone owns and runs it, you should get permission if you don't want any problems.</p>

<p>Get permission and do this during off or slow hours, especially if you're busting out tripods and stuff.</p>

<p>Are you taking pictures of your family or of the restaurant itself? If it is the former, just use a bounce flash and gel / drag shutter for ambient light.</p>

<p>Taking pictures of kids brings up a whole other layer of issues. What do you want to do with these photos? Take that into consideration before some kid's dad pummels you for taking pix of their kid, people can be weird about that.</p>

<p>In the US, in a public restaurant people have no legal expectation of privacy (except for the restrooms). After all, many restaurants have security cameras. Until the restaurant owner(s) tell you to stop, you may photograph whatever you want in an area where the public has free and open access. If you stop, they may not take your camera, touch you, insist you delete cards, turn over film, etc. If you refuse to stop (or even if you do stop), the owner(s) can tell you to leave immediately or be arrested for trespassing. If you still refuse to leave, then the owner(s) will call the police and you will be arrested for trespassing. Under no circumstances (unless you act in a way that threatens physical damage or danger) can anyone except the police legally touch you, or your equipment. They can not legally threaten you. All they can do is insist you leave immediately and call the police if you refuse.<br>

Very few people know this is the law. Some law officers don't know this is the law. You can bet the local prosecutor knows this is the law. So, the owner(s) might do you and your gear physical harm. Customers might do you and your gear physical harm. Unless you act in a threatening manner (do or imply physical harm), you can press charges and sue any parties that violate your rights. But you are clearly at risk, and pressing charges (or even a law suite) may not compensate for a punch in the face. I could takes years to collect funds to replace broken equipment or paay medical bills. You have to decide if the risk is acceptable.<br>

Using a tripod is problematic. The tripod could cause accidental injury to others and obstruct the restaurant staff from conducting business. Even with permission it would be irresponsible to use a tripod without personal or business liability insurance. Using a tripod will certainly cause trouble and increase the odds that you will be told to leave. If you do not have fast lenses or a camera (or film) that performs well at high ISO values, then your equipment is not well-suited for this type of photography.<br>

Usage of the photos is another matter. You can not use them for any commercial or business purpose without model releases from every person in the picture. A property release for the restaurant is also a good idea. Releases are not required to use the photos for artwork or for editorial purposes. I someone sues you for displaying art work containing their image it helps to have a track record that indicates you are an artist. Selling prints at art shows, exhibiting at art shows, or publishing art in a book are activities that indicate you are a practicing artist (as opposed to a weirdo who photographs people just to cause trouble).<br>

The above is not legal advice. I'm just sharing how I think about these sort of situations.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>In the US, in a public restaurant people have no legal expectation of privacy</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>This is absolutely not true. I didn't bother reading beyond this, because the post starts out so wrong.</p>

<p>People in a restaurant have no legal expectation of privacy from what can be photographed from a public place. If the photographer is standing on the street and they are photographed inside the restaurant, that's fine. The second the photographer steps past the door, that's all over.</p>

<p>People take pictures with little point & shoot cameras, and with telephone cameras in most popular restaurants and "get away" with it. Most restaurant personnel do not care, as long as you do not disturb other patrons, do it fast and do not attract attention of other customers.</p>

<p>Setting up a tripod or monopod, and a formidable size camera (noticeable, attracting attention, done overly slow, etc.) will most likely result in request to stop it.</p>

<p>And of course there are no public restaurants. </p>

<p>Even shooting in a public park, which really could be a city park, may require permit and insurance, if tripods and large attention grabbing cameras or lighting, and action takes place.</p>

<p>Ask permission. Expect to be told "No!" unless you have a good existing relationship with the owners/managers, etc., and/or can articulate a compelling reason to be allowed to do this. It's one thing to take a few casual snaps of your own kids/party but not reasonable to consider turning it into a big production. They are running a business and have to consider the safety and enjoyment of their other customers.</p>

<p>There's only a minute sliver of truth to the idea that one has the right to do any number of things until asked to stop. There's an "economic" slogan that "there's always another sucker." Consider carefully that there may well be another person out there with even less regard for the feelings or rights of those around him/her than the pushy photographer.</p>

<p>Not that I think it's a good idea to shoot inside the restaurant without permission, I'd like to point out that there is a difference between a property owners right to not allow photography, and what goes on between two visitors on private property that is open to the public-- such as a photographer and another visitor who ends up being the subject of a photo.</p>

<p>The following two paragraphs are from the wikipedia page called <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_of_privacy">Expectation_of_privacy</a></p>

<p>According to the United States law , examples of places where a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy are person's residence and <em>public places which have been specifically provided by businesses or the public sector to ensure privacy, such as public restrooms , private portions of jailhouses ,[ 1] or a phone booth .[ 2] [ 3] </em> <br /> <br /> In general, one cannot have an expectation of privacy in public places, with the exceptions mentioned above. A popular example is denial of privacy for garbage left for collection in a public place.[ 1]</p>

<p>Chuck E Cheese is privately owned :-) Ask the owner?</p>

<p>Sounds like we've acquired some attorneys on this forum?<br>

Aside from the legal issues, what are your plans for these photos? My instinct would be to NOT take pictures of children who aren't yours. Even if it's legal, it's probably not the best idea I've ever heard...-Aimee</p>

<p>Attorney's, on the average, are wrong half of the time.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I happy to learn that I now have expectation of privacy in a restaurant that is freely available to the general public.<br>

The next time I am inside a restaurant by a restaurant (or any other business where the general public has free and open access) if a security camera captures my image, I will sue the owner(s) for violating my privacy.</p>

<p>I'm sure that you will find any number of attorneys willing to be paid for their time while you explore that concept with them.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Craig,<br /> I would happily split the cost with Jeff Sprirer.</p>

<p>Fat chance. He knows what he's talking about. You don't. You were simply rambling on, repeating material that it's clear that you don't fully understand. He was just inelegant in dismissing your rambling.</p>

 

<p>Great!<br>

First they allow loaded guns in National Parks, and now someone wants to be allowed to shoot inside a Public restaurant!<br>

Great Zooks, when will this entré to violence end?</p>

<p>Chuck E Cheese tends to allow "Parents" to shoot since the kids are there spending money. When my kids go there - it's always the D40 and SB800 that comes along. Never even thought about bringing a mono or a tripod. Last thing I need is a 5 year old to come along, trip and take a header into the floor or a table.</p>

<p>Most restaurants are private property. Period. The owner has spent time and money growing their brand. You need to get their permission to shoot in there except in the case outlined above. (kids party) </p>

<p>Dave</p>

<p>Actually, if it's "private" property (and unless it's "your" restaurant, you know it belongs to someone else), permission is always required. It's just that there are certain situations and actions which are reasonable and probably don't require direct permission. The trick is understanding what's reasonable and probably OK and what one should ask permission for and what might reasonably be thought to be something you wouldn't get permission for.</p>

<p>Would everyone in the photos have to sign a release ?</p>