People Shooter Going from A2E to 10D? EOS 3? EOS 1V?

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by chris moseley, Jul 31, 2003.

  1. Help! I shoot weddings with my trusty A2E bodies and L lenses. I use both black & white (60-70%) and color film. My questions are: (a) How much better are the EOS3 and EOS 1V than the A2/A2E/EOS5? What would I gain by upgrading? (b)For the cost of the EOS IV, should I consider the 10D instead? Remember, many of my subjects are PEOPLE. I see beautiful product & scenic (non-skintones) images taken digitally, but less digital people photos that are at least as good as film. THANKS.
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  2. I use an A2E primarily, and the one thing I noticed when using a friend's EOS 3 for the weekend is that the AF speed using the EOS 3, with or without eye control, is 2-3x faster than with the A2e, with just about any lens.
     
  3. Hi Chris, As pointed out above, I think you'll find the EOS 3 and even moreso, the 1V a bit quicker to autofocus. I own a 1V, and while I'm not a wedding photographer, I can't imagine too many features that it lacks in an SLR. Since I came to Canon a bit late in the game, I've never used an A2E, so I really can't comment on how much better a 1V might be - but I bet with its newer autofocus processor, it might hunt and peck a lot less in a low-light situation. To some people, the feature set of the 1V can be daunting - there's so much stuff you can adjust and change. Also, Canon makes software for the 1V - yep, I know; it's a film camera - but the ES-E1 software will allow you to change certain parameters that you could not otherwise, as well as keep tabs on the settings you used for a particular shot. In short, it's likely the 1V is a much higher tech camera. I suppose that can be a double-edged sword, though. With regards to your question about the 10D vs. the 1V, I also own a 10D. (Yes, I'm broke all the time!) When Popular Photography (& Imaging!) reviewed the 10D a few issues back, they found its color accuracy to be the best they ever tested - film or digital. I'm always amazed at the mis-information that surrounds this camera and DSLR's in general. I've always been quite pleased with the skin tones I've gotten from the 10D, and I suspect that since it's a digital camera and consequently many of the pictures we see are "developed" (as it were) by individuals using or mis-using Photoshop, there's potential for a plethora of badly-colored shots out there as new users struggle to learn post-processing for their images. Another phenomenon I see a lot is people complaining that the 10D images are "soft". That's by design, I think. Canon (wisely) chose to not implement much in-camera sharpening by default because image editors like Photoshop do a much better job of it. So right out of the camera, a 10D image very well may look "soft" when compared to even a "prosumer" point & shoot. However, at the hands of a skilled image editor, the shots can and do surpass almost any other digital camera at this time, IMHO. One thing that would concern me if I were a wedding photographer used to film is workflow. Today, I suspect you shoot a wedding and drop the film off at your trusty lab who develops, then makes nice prints for you and your clients. With a 10D, much of the work begins after the shot! The upside to this is control. If you perform your own post-processing you'll be much more able to fine-tune a shot to the way you like it. And let's not forget film and film-processing costs - they'll go away with digital. There will be some who say that the 10D won't produce enlargements worthy of film, but I routinely make 13X19" prints from my 10D that still knock my socks off - and I shoot a lot of MF (Hasselblad) too! I'd see if I could rent both a 1V and a 10D so you can evaluate these plusses and minuses to see if they'll fit into your way of doing things. Best wishes . . .
     
  4. I would reccomend the EOS 3, hands down. Sure, the 1V is terrific, too but you probably will not be seeing any rainforest-type conditions or street-riots at a wedding (unless the two families are feuding!). This is primarily, in my opinion, where the 1V trumps the 3 - build quality. Notice, I did not mention AF because the two systems are so similiar you would not notice much of a difference in your line of work to justify the $500+ price difference. Here's what you will notice, however:
    <p>
    <p>* Better AF, especially with that gem of a lens you call the 70-200mm f/2.8L. The EOS 3 has seven cross sensors that will utilize the f/2.8 lens. I believe the EOS 5 only has one.
    <p>* ECF that is far superior in its operation and reliability. All 45 points can be used in either landscape or portrait orientation (I personally use CF-13 to limit the AF points to 11 because it works better for me).
    <p>* Multi-spot metering. Although the Evaluative metering is great on the 3, there are some times when I want to nail the exposure with the M-SM. Although primarily an ally of E-6 shooters, it still might save you and your C-41 exposure.
    <p>* E-TTL and (more importantly) wireless E-TTL. I use a 420EX and a Sigma EF 500 (550EX imitator) and I can barely remember what my life was like before wireless E-TTL. It's so much fun!
    <p>
    <p>I'm not sure I would recommend a 10D for you, considering the bulk of your work is in B&W film.
    <p>
    <p>Overall, I believe the EOS 3 would be the best choice IF you decide to upgrade. The EOS 5 is fine, fine camera, but it is 11 years old in design. Perhaps you should try renting or borrowing an EOS 3 for awhile and see how you like it! Best of luck.
     
  5. "What would I gain by upgrading?"

    Chris,

    I think a better question would be: What do I want to accomplish that my current camera won't allow?

    Otherwise, you'll be cutting into your bottom line for no good reason. I'd be willing to bet your a2e does it all for you? With regard to the 10d, I would worry less about image quality and more about two things: 1) How will your wide angle capabilities suffer when you switch to a non full frame sensor? (Once again, if you need to buy another lens to "re-gain" wide angle capabilities you had with your A2e you may be cutting unnecessarily into your bottom line). 2) While shooting a couple hundred of digital images is cheap and easy (no film/processing cost), adjusting and printing each of them individually on your computer is time consuming. Please don't think I'm discouraging you from upgrading/changing formats, I really don't know your situation. Either decision could be the right one. It's just good business sense to have a concrete reason for spending money on equipment that may not increase your profit, or cause you to spend more time than necessary producing quality prints. Good luck,

    John
     
  6. Thanks, John. I guess I'm wondering whether upgrading film bodies would truly improve my images. Does upgrading get me (a) FASTER, more effective focusing? It sure did not appear to with the 10D I tried. But having 45 ECF points is appealing. Does the ECF work better on the EOS 3 than the A2E? Does A1 Servo on the 3 or 1V "predict" better than on the A2E? and (b) better metering. I do use the three metering modes of the A2E, but mainly the Eval. Has anyone shot with both and compared the differences?

    Thanks for the great info so far.
     
  7. I forgot to add that I use the 540EZ flash..
     
  8. Hey Chris,
    The Short Answer: yes, everything is better from focus to exposure. Will it improve your images, doubtful for weddings. Full Disclosure: I added and EOS3 to my A2E so I do have both. I had a very specific reason however. I purchased a 100-400 IS lens and there were compatibility issues with the way I set up my custom functions (thumb focus) and image stabilization. While happy to have the newer technology (EOS3)I would rather have spent the money elsewhere. The EOS3 is a dream. It focuses beautifully and quickly. Even with the improvements however, I can't imagine anything in a wedding that would require the advantages over the A2E. For me, sporting events, and a few air shows I've attended were the only things that benefitted from the technology upgrade. I've only shot a couple dozen weddings in my life and those were all with medium format manual focus. So as you can see, my opinion FWIW, is that High Tech Autofocus/Exposure isn't necessary for weddings. Your style of shooting may necesitate these cool advantages however, and I have no quarrel with anything said in this thread about either camera. I do think you'll be impressed with the capabilities of the EOS 3's fill flash photography, I use it frequently for personal photography. I just never could bring myself to trust auto-flash/auto exposure for my weddings as over the years I developed a comfort zone with my regular settings. That's just me however, not a comment on what's best for everyone. One more thing. I was one of those people who had no problem with the ECF on the A2E (even though I never used it), I can't say the same for the EOS3. While close, the correct sensor rarely lights up. Usually its one or two sensors off but like I said, I don't rely on it anyway. I was surprised however because the A2E hit 100% for me.
     
  9. John has summarised it very well. Just one more note: you'll probably need at least one new flash, namely an EX model, to exploit what the EOS 3 can do with flash.<p>WRt to the 10D: it can render beautiful, precise skin tones if you tweak the images a little, and usually it's the same tweaking for virtually all images; i.e. it's a batch processing issue. The problems start with the few that need major processing. Compared to film-based workflow, digital forces you to spend time instead of money to get fine images. Whether the result is positive or negative (financially) depends on your computer skills, but once you've reached a certain level you'll be saving expenses. Can you estimate how steep your learning curve will be?
     
  10. You say "my trusty A2E bodies". That means that you are happy with them. In that case I'd go for the 10D.
     
  11. Yakim - thanks, I should have defined "trusty" as reliable + dependable. For anyone who has shot with the A2, A2E or EOS 5 and then upgraded to the EOS 3 or EOS 1V: Have you noticed a big difference in the FLASH METERING? Are you getting better FLASH results with the EX flashes and the 3 or 1V's metering combo than with your A2?
     

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