Pentax: great concept; poor execution

Are there others out there, like me getting indreasingly frustrated with

Pentax's way of doing business?

 

Much of the hardware they produce is great - MX, LX, K10D cameras, many of

their lenses, particularly the fast SMC's and the limiteds - but much is also

pretty awful - no upgrades of the LX, no real professional camera for years,

poor zooms, crippled mounts, Reneging on the MF digital, and the worst yet,

discontinuing so many good lenses without anything to replace them and now a

real lens shortage. Couldn't that have been predicted?

 

The three limiteds with an aperture ring, the 31, 43 and the 77, were a great

idea - fast, very well made and good, but why not more? Why not a 23/1.8, or a

16/2 for APS sensor, on the same small scale, or a jewell of a 150/2.3? Why

not offer these for those that don't want plastic and do want an aperture ring?

 

Why do I get the feeling that my next camera will be a Nikon?

Nikon hasn't exactly been leading the way in the introduction of new prime lenses (or lenses with aperture rings). Furthermore, I think your suggestions for high-speed wide-angles aren't terribly realistic. Pentax has frequently traded off extreme maximum apertures for more moderately sized packages and many of us would like it to stay that way. Other vendors don't offer a whole lot in this area either. Sigma for example offers a 20mm f/1.8--it weighs well over a pound and takes 82mm filters. How many of those do you expect Pentax would sell? There aren't many lenses around < 20mm that offer maximum apertures better than f/2.8.

 

In my opinion a somewhat more realistic request would be for DA 16 f/3.2 and maybe 24mm f/2.4 or f/2.8 to keep it compact.

 

As for the discontinuing most the FA range without replacements waiting in the wings, that's rather inexcusable.

> Are there others out there, like me getting indreasingly frustrated with Pentax's way of doing business?

 

I suppose so. All I know is that I look at what's available today - what it costs vs. what it does - and I buy Pentax for SLR kit.

 

If Pentax doesn't do it for you, go buy your Nikon or Canon or whatever. You're not alone in posting threats about buying something else, but I think its a waste of space on a Pentax forum.

 

Go read the Nikon forum and the Canon forum and you'll see similar whining about holes in product lines, cost, and alleged mistreatment of the loyal customer base. It's not just Pentax.

Anyone with a Nikon D40 or D40x isn't exactly happy once they find out how most of the mounts work. Those products right there don't even compete with the K100D and, in pricing in some countries, even the K10D. For systems that start at under $500 and $1,000, by a wide margin, it's still hard to beat Pentax.

 

But yeah, I have to agree with Andrew, dropping various FA products wasn't smart. But it could be the fact that they've sold off a lot of their Japanese production, and moved to their fab in Vietnam with their Tamron for most new products.

Why not offer these for those that don't want plastic and do want an aperture ring?--

No argument on the aperture ring. As for the plastic, I have read that the plastic elements now put in lenses are not so much a cost consideration as they actually have better durability over time than metal for the same reason plastic tooth fillings are considered better than metal: the material does not expand and contract with temperature variation nearly as much. The only reason they waited this long to produce lenses with so much plastic is because of customers like us who demanded the feel (weight) of a "well built" product in an expensive lens. Don't know how true it is and can't find the link offhand but it makes sense.

Like the advice to Ben in the movie "The Graduate"

 

I have just one word -- Plastic , no wait, I mean Canon.

 

Seriously though, look closely before you leap. No camera manufacturer is perfect. At any given time, there seem so many new things on the other side of the fence, that you just gotta switch. The Pentaxian ads and efforts by Pentax look to an outsider to be an effort to assert themselves again.

 

I had a Honewell Pentax H-2 as my first serious camera, so have a soft spot in my heart still for the old marque.

Its only a "waste of time" if pentax corporation isn't reading these chat sites to take the pulse of their "pentaxians". Occasionally the VP of Pentax USA posts here and at other sites, showing off new glass: both 16-50/2.8 and 50-135/2.8. He hasn't said a thing the past 2 or 3 months so I guess nothing's happening right now.

 

It would be more affordable for me to buy a couple specific pentax lenses I really wanted than to switch systems. Pentax made these lenses in the past and I guess in such low numbers that they pop well over original retail by 2x to 3x.

 

I remain quite content with my planned and broadcasted system switch. Unless I get a lucky local purchase that fills my smc fa glass wants list and at affordable prices. I will not pay whatever it takes to win them in auction. I'd rather switch brands and pay far less for brand new glass I want.

 

Sony, Nikon, Canon launched new equiptment in August and September 2007. Pentax should have something to announce by November 2007 and hopefully not just another simple roadmap for next 24 to 36 months but instead something with real and obtainable items like fast prime glass before Christmas 2007.

 

That all said Nikon sure rocked the imaging world a couple weeks ago with their new product array. That 14mm-24mm 2.8 zoom is one I look foward to handling at Demodays in November 2007. With no aperture ring it can only be used on a Nikon body like F6 and F100 and D3 which also are older Ai glass compatible too. F100's and additional drive in like new in the box are now trading below $400 and this would work perfect with no aperture G series lenses. At sub $400 it would offer a nice alternative to a $5000 full frame nikon dslr: D3, to drive the 14-24mm/2.8.

 

Nikon still makes pro film probodies as does canon. In fact canon upped their factory waranty on top of the line 1V from 1 year to 3 years. Pentax quietly discontinued all their slr 35mm film camera system a couple years ago. One would think by discontuing these items they could focus more energy on customer's dslr glass needs?

 

Lindy

Robert,

 

Pentax's way of doing business is why I bought a K10D and not something else from the Canikons. No, they don't have professional DSLRs, but that's fine by me because...you guessed it...I'm not a professional! :-)

 

In fact, most clients of any brand are not professionals. The reason I chose Pentax over all others was because they were offering a camera of similar specs to a $1200-1400 Canikon, but with a $750 price tag. For someone on a budget, that is very important.

 

If I were a professional, of course I would spend $3000-5000 on a professional camera, and just about as much on lenses. As it stands, I spent about $1000 on a great 10MP camera with 3 decent lenses (18-55mm, 50-200mm and 50mm f/1.4). I wouldn't say that Pentax disappointed me at all!

 

I see Pentax as a budget brand (which DOES NOT mean "low quality"), so I'm not surprised that their choice of lenses isn't enormous, or that new lenses are released at a trickle. As usual, you get what you pay for, no?

One achilles heel of the APS sensors is in the wide-angle arena. Wide is now not so wide. To get super- kadooper wide in order to achieve very wide is to get into a larger, more expensive lens body. The Limited lens concept is very high quality in a very compact design. The lenses you describe would hardly be compact.

 

An upgraded LX? Unfortunately, film cameras are being left behind- not only by Pentax, check Nikon's lineup- all but discontinued, and probably will totally be so soon. Film -based lenses are gradually going the same way. This is too bad, as film still has its advantages. But the market and misconceptions drive everything.

 

In all but faster, higher FPS shooting, the K10D is a profesional camera, and features more efficient shooting control than other designs. Yes, Pentax is slow, but I believe more and faster tele lenses will soon be coming.

BTW, I am with you in spirit, as I still shoot film and value good lenses that can be used for both film and digital, like the 43mm and 77mm Limiteds. But I do have a couple of DSLR only lenses, like the 21mm Limited.

Lets be frank here,

 

Pentax is a medium sized SLR player. But it still IS a player.

 

Where is Minolta's dSLR?

 

Where is Olympus dSLR?

 

Where is Contax's dSLR?

 

I wish Pentax had more long glass. The old 600mm f4 was optically the best in its class. How many did they sell? Obviously not enough to keep them coming.

 

The SLR is a nitche market. Pentax stayed afloat with customers who appreciated Pentax staying the course with the K mount. Then along came some incredible dSLRs. Personally I too wished and hope Pentax had enough out there to feed this new interest in the brand and continued to run with innovative optics. I am thankful Pentax has stayed afloat and frankly I'm somewhat pleasently surprised they are still in the game. I think those of us who have been with Pentax for a while are pleased with what Pentax has comeup with and hope the success of Pentax's new equipment drives new products. I for one have come to appreciate the magic that has developed from Pentax's engineers. Let's just hope the business side holds up.

I shoot with K10's and guess what? I'm a professional. I continue to wow customers with

large prints (16x20's and larger) and I am in no hurry to spend more money on the latest

and greatest stuff. If you can't take a decent picture without all of the gimicks and toys, or

by shooting a movie at 5 fps and picking the best frame out of the middle, you aren't

much of a photographer in my book. We were taking great photos before motor drives,

aperture prioity, and autofocus. Sure, that stuff can save your butt from time to time, but

if you can't live without it I don't want to hear it. Why is everybody so anxious for Pentax

to release something new? The cameras they have now are a great lineup, especially for

the price. I agree about the lens lineup (glad I got one of the last 35mm f2's) but I take

great photos with excellent equipment that is all PAID FOR! I've said before that I'm not a

fan of the 'digital only' lenses, but between the cost of a full frame body and having image

stabilization on ALL of my lenses, Pentax has saved me THOUSANDS of dollars, I can deal

with the small sensor. Twelve years ago I discovered that if I spent the money on GOOD

glass that I would be likely to spend on a medium format rig, I could achive comparable

image quality even in prints larger than 16x20. The weak point of 35mm was the cheep

lenses, not the film. I think that at 10mp, digital is getting to the same point. After all,

what's the difference between our cameras and the 10mp point and shoot at Wal-Mart for

$279? Megapixel isn't everything.

 

btw: I would KILL for a digital LX...

Unannouced but eagerly anticipated Olympus E3:

 

http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?id=olympus_e10_forum&page=1&sn1=&sid1=&divpage=18&sn=off&sid=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=95367

Douglas, Contax doesn't appear to be playing anymore--but Minolta-cum-Sony and Olympus are still scrapping with Pentax for that last 15-20% or so of the D-SLR market. But you probably knew that. I am also pleased that Pentax appears to be at least as strong as these other marginal players and will enjoy watching what they come up with next.

Sony bought Minolta. Sept 28th the 12mp A700 hits the streetsn with "much improved" inbody anti shake:

 

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665227951

I have to agree (unfortunately). I have lenses from 15 to 500mm, a brace of

LXs which have been all over the world with me and ME Super backups, but

the latest auto-focus camera body self-destructed within days of the warranty

expirition, and except for the LE models the new lenses have neither the

optical nor mechanical precision of the older SMCP lenses.<P> I considered

a K10D with a 31mm LE, but I don't trust them any more. I expect them to join

Konica/Minolta in the near future. I will miss them.

Pentax, "crippled mounts" ?!!! I can't believe what I read... the most longevive and universal mount on the market...

No camera is perfect and it's human nature to always covet something else. I use the K10D with 21, 40, 70 and 16-45 DA lenses and a 70-210 f4 SMC zoom. The results are excellent but no better and no worse than I could have got from the Nikon/Canon equivalent. You can read about my experiences with the K10D and see lots of pics at my blog here: http://pentaxk10dblog.blogspot.com/

 

I looked at the Nikon D200 and D80 (?) and a Mamiya 6 before getting the K10D. In the end, I went with the Pentax for two reasons: in-body image stabilisation and the availability of high quality, very compact primes. None of the other marques can yet match Pentax on the two things that were most important to me so I'm quite content with my purchase.

 

Bruce

Bruce, just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy your blog. I discovered it a few weeks ago while researching the K10D and check it often. You both write and shoot well, my friend! :-)

Can anyone offer a company/manufacturer that aces everything in their market for several decades? As perfect as Leica, Zeiss, Rollei etc are for brands, even they have had their lapses in business. "Trusting them" is naive! You are buying a tool to make/capture images. I am going to go off and fondle my 'blad now! ;-)

Matthew, your insight on high-quality glass instead of medium format is very interesting!

 

As always, a company must offer budget lenses as well as the higher quality ones. I think Pentax maintains some very high quality in its still reduced lineup, with more to come and fill out the range. The K10D seems to be of pro caliber build and design concept, and the compact K100D is not too shabby for a budget model.

Pentax is a little company fighting to survive. They can't compete with Nikanon when we consider the choice of products. The two majors offer a very wide range of cameras, lenses and accessories. Pentax can't. But, surprisingly, there are many things in the little Pentax range that both Nikon and Canon can't offer - at least for the same price. I hope to see Pentax carry on this way in the future.

If you want to buy a Nikon, go ahead: enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with that. Why whine

about Pentax if something else makes you happier?

 

I never owned Pentax before I bought one of their DSLRs at the end of 2004. I had Canon

DSLRs for a couple years before that, Nikon SLRs and Leica M RFs for the thirty years prior

to that. I have been happier with the Pentax DSLRs and lenses more than I was with the

Canon DSLRs and lenses. I now also have a Panasonic L1 system that does a great job: it

and the K10D kit complement each other well.

 

It's all just equipment, and it's all perfectly good equipment. Photography is much more

than

equipment.

 

Godfrey

First off, in all honest, I'm not even an amateur, I'm a total novice. So I don't profess to know what even amateurs know, much less pros. But at the same time, I'm a novice.

 

Which means, secondly, everytime I see a Nikon D200 owner recommend a D40, or a Canon EOS 5D owner recommend the Rebel XT, to someone new do dSLRs, I have to roll my eyes. Of course the D200 and 5Ds are great cameras! But the D40 and XTs are not for the price compared to the K100D and K10D.

 

In fact, I rather tire of seeing them, after-the-fact, say, "oh, yeah, the D40 doesn't do that" and whatnot. And then there are the IS considerations. And then, finally, I see that person frustrated.

 

I am a Pentaxian because my $300-something K100D "just works" -- 11-point AF, bracketing, solid metering, in-body SR. It does the job for a novice. Why pros feel they must tell novices that they must buy an entry-level Nikon or Canon, based on their pro-level Nikon or Canon, I'll never understand.

Because is that WRONG myth about lenses being more important than bodies, and bodies are consumables, and you will change your body every 2-3 years and finaly will arrive as them, owning a pro body, but still novice ;))