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Pentax 645D


p_l_jensen

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Hmmmm ..... they were saying that its 18MP kodak CCD equipped, now its 22MP. Wonder if they feel the heat from recent Mamiya ZD delivery and all the upcoming Digital Backs. Still I believe if they can start deliver the 18MP body before summer holidat at the anticipated price ( roughly same as Canon 1Ds Mk.II ) it still made pretty viable product ..

 

Might be we will be hearing more come PAM and PIE

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12 months -- you mean after the holiday quarter that's every camera maker's biggest

of the year?

 

Hmm.

 

Somehow I think that Pentax has moved far too slowly on this and there isn't a large

enough market for them to survive in MF digital. If I were amenable to wagering, I'd

put a small amount on this camera never coming out, probably because Pentax will

be bought out by Samsung and marketing efforts put on 35mm digital.

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"Somehow I think that Pentax has moved far too slowly on this and there isn't a large enough market for them to survive in MF digital"

 

 

Pentax will not make a MF DSLR until it can be made in such a way that it is suitable for field use. That means compact size and not needing a power outlet to function. In addition, sensor technology must be at such a state that the camera can be sold at a price that warrant some sales volume. So far, digital MF isn't really happening and it won't until prices come down so much that they are within reach for the amateur.

The camera may even be as "cheap" as $6000 according to some and will be smaller than the high end Canons. Somebody has to "create" the MF digital market and Pentax 645D could be instrumental in this. Not only will it be the cheapest MF DSLR, it also has a fleet of affordable, highly regarded lenses to go with it. In contrast to some other MF brands.

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The only MAJOR problem for Pentax and this strategy is Timing/Cost versus competition.

Competition from whatever Canon comes up with next(probably very close to 22MP) will be

fierce as it will no doubt be more competiviely priced to the 4-5K High end Nikon D2X.

Pentax will be too late to the party I'm afraid wearing last years dress. By the time they come

to market, I highly doubt that they will be competive given their performance thus far in the

DSLR arena. If they could somehow have done this 12 months sooner, say PMA this month,

then they would have a chance at this price point.

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<i><blockquote> Somebody has to "create" the MF digital market and Pentax 645D

could be instrumental in this.

</blockquote> </i><p>

 

That's the problem -- the assumption that there is a large enough, valid market for

this is questionable, and the idea that three companies could possibly compete in it is

ridiculous. With Canon aiming for a 24MP full-frame 35mm camera at the same (or

lower) price point as Pentax -- yet with a huge advantage in available (and more

affordable) lenses -- I really doubt that enough of a market exists for Pentax to be

profitable.

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.[Z.

 

Interesting nom de plume, I understand your point, but disagree. If Pentax plans on a 22 MP sensor about 645 in size, it should outperform a 24 MP 35mm-sized sensor in every respect (improved S/N, dynamic range, low noise at high ISO etc.). They would be entirely different cameras. Pentax medium format lenses are not appreciably more expensive than Canon L lenses, I don�t think that would be a major factor (this has to be a first in forum postings, has anyone ever had to deny that Pentax lenses were too expensive?) Also there is a huge reservoir of inexpensive used Pentax lenses available, unlike Canon where the mount change and popularity of Canon digital cameras has created a sellers� market.

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Do you all really think that the ultra high-end commercial pros that still shoot 6x7 and 4x5 are waiting around for Canons new digital offerings? Get real. The quality of MF digital blows 35mm digital away in the same way that MF film blows 35mm film away. Even the Kodak 16MP pro backs kill the 16MP 1ds at lower ISOs. When the dust settles, MF (digital) will still be the king of resolution, tonality, and dynamic range. Its low price will also open the world of digital MF up to high-end portrait and wedding photographers who could not afford the ultra expensive Fujiblads, or Mamiya digital offerings. The 645D will make Pentax a lot of money.
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<i><blockquote> Do you all really think that the ultra high-end commercial pros

that still shoot 6x7 and 4x5 are waiting around for Canons new digital offerings?

</blockquote> </i><p>

 

How many are you saying there are, Todd? Enough to fund 2-3 competitors? for how

long?

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Yes. Its a very big world out there with quite a few commercial photographers who need more than what 35mm digital can offer. You can count on Pentax to deliver a great camera. In fact, they have more digital imaging experience than Hasselblad, Mamiya, or Rollei put together.
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The Pentax 645 film camera had one weakness no interchangable back. Now we see most people would rather have no film transport and a dedicated digital slr rather than expensive interchangable digital backs. This is so that the electronic features of digital integration make more sense than transposing F-stop and shutter speed settings like the old Blads. When you now have to look at histograms and adjust white balance who has time for winding cranks or non return mirror mechanisms.

 

If Pentax makes a simple AP camera with spot; CW and manual mode, and all the digital speed to shoot 3-4 shot sec. at the same price as Canon they have it made. Smart buyer will save on the back end buying all the P67 and P645 lenses that will work fine on the new camera.

 

Lets not forget all those Pentax p67 and p645 owners who kept their film gear rather then selling them of cheap. This is a large pool of potential buyers of the system. I feel Hasselblad ignored their base comming out a Fuji-centric system. If you have a load of Pentax glass then the price of the Body is not that bad a deal.

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"Yes. Its a very big world out there with quite a few commercial photographers who need

more than what 35mm digital can offer. You can count on Pentax to deliver a great

camera. In fact, they have more digital imaging experience than Hasselblad, Mamiya, or

Rollei put together."

 

But they do not have more experience than Canon who also make their own chips. Many

many pros use the 1DS, 1DS11 and now the Nikon D2x who once used Hassys and

Mamiyas, don't kid yourself. It is stated in the linked article above that the Pentax chip

size will be bigger than 35mm BUT less than 645. Given the huge technology advantage

that a verticle supplier such as Canon brings to the equation, its not a forgone conclusion

that whatever relatively inexpensive larger format chip that Pentax can get its hands on for

the 645 will have better image quality than whatever Canon can come up with. I would

love to see Pentax pull it off(and I would be first in line to buy one) but the cards are really

stacked against them on this one. The high end pros that have a budget and need for

anything greater than 22MP or more today will be(or already are!) shooting 39MP backs

when the Pentax comes out. A wedding photographer has very little need for anything

more than what Canon, Nikon or Fuji offer today.

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<i><blockquote> Its a very big world out there with quite a few commercial

photographers

</blockquote> </i><p>

 

I ask how many and that's the best you can come up with? No hard numbers, no

consideration of the dramatic shrinkage of MF sales and usage, the wholesale

transition to 35mm digital by pros, the acceptance of of 35mm digital by clients, the

comparitively small sales of the Fujiblad itself... <p>

 

Sounds like the Leica fanatics in recent years, to tell the truth.

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I am sorry Z. I guess you have access to the total number of pros that are in no way interested in a 645D. You better hurry up and get those number to Pentax. I sure that they do not have any type of market research system that they employ before spending millions of dollars developing a pro grade camera.
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"the dramatic shrinkage of MF sales and usage, the wholesale transition to 35mm"

 

 

But isn't this exactly due to the lack of an "affordable" MF based digital solution? And isn't this what Pentax seems to be trying to do something about?

Arguments that it is too late since everyone and their grandmother have switched to 35mm doesn't hold water. Photographers have switched from 35mm film to MF for decades and theres no reason why this shouldn't continue with digital the moment prices for digital MF will reach a level mortals can afford.

Arguments about 35mm being good enough isn't valid either since nothing is good enough. Thats why some have used larger format over MF and I'm sure most would want to have large format quality if it could be had at an acceptable hassle/price factor.

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No Todd, I guess the point is that *you* seem willing to defend the late entry of

Pentax into a shrinking market, and when *you* refer to 'the high end commercial

pros' who would presumably be interested in such a camera, you balk at actually

discussing how large this market is.

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<i><blockquote> Isn't this exactly due to the lack of an "affordable" MF based digital

solution? And isn't this what Pentax seems to be trying to do something about?

</blockquote> </i><p>

 

Remind me how much Pentax says this camera body will cost, then explain why (or

how many) pros who have successfully migrated to 35mm digital would now want to

go back.

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