Pain or Joy? 1Ds vs 7D

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by hk71, Sep 9, 2010.

  1. Hi Folks;
    I have serious dilemma about my equipment. For now, I use Canon EOS 1Ds(Mark 1) and Canon's two famous L brothers, 24-70 f/2,8L and 70-200 f/2,8L. I am suffering from chronic neck pain because of my years in office, with Laptop. I can define my self as perfectionist in photography since I do it as a serious amateur for 23 years. Because of that, Nikon D300's performance -especially red and yellow color performance- didn't satisfy my expectations and I upgraded to used Canon 1Ds body, with mint condition, at shutter counter of 34.000. It has magnificent and vibrant colors and satisfies my needs completely. See picture below and you will understand what I mean(By the way, your critiques and ratings are welcomed about it :) ). I really like the reliable body of 1Ds in the hands. But to tell you the truth I can not really stand the pain anymore on my neck, hanging on it with 2,5 kg weight at least(with1Ds+24-70 f/2,8, with 70-200 it is worse).Since I would never leave my "L brothers", I am considering to replace 1Ds with EOS 7D. I am not really interested in head to head comparisons regarding mumbers. Ok I know, 7D is not a full frame camera but has nearly twice more pixels, full HD video recording, dual Digic 4 processors and 8 fps machine gun. But the real issue I need your advice about is, the usage and performance of the body. In the same price range do you think 7D will satisfy my expectations about performance by being a lighter body than 1Ds. If you have an experience with both of these two bodies and if you share it with me, that would be great, I would appreciate that. So what do you advise: Replace 1DS with 7D and enter the world of newest and the lighter bodies of Canon or make another appointment with my physiotherapist for this autumn and stick with the old but reliable friend.
    Thanks for your time;
    Here is the photo:
    http://www.photo.net/photo/11570222
    Hakan Karademir
     
  2. I think the camera you really need is a 5D or 5Dmk2.
    Seamless transition with your lenses and bigger brighter pixels.
    I have a 7D and love the speed and video. If you are using an orginal 1Ds then a 5D series is going to give you the same lens coverage in a body nearly as compact as the 7D, and a lot lighter than a 1Ds.
    You will lose the 1D interface, something that should not be undersetimated. Though you will gain a bigger LCD.
    The AF experience of the 7D is more like the 1Ds, the 5D series AF, whilst decent, is a bit more basic.
     
  3. Consider switching to waist/hip based carrying system. There are many excellent examples (I'm partial to Think Tank's
    products). Your neck shouldn't have to do the work.
     
  4. Matt Laur's suggestion makes a lot more sense. Changing the cameras, you don't lose much weight. Let me do the math:
    1Ds (1265g) + 70-200 (1570g) = 2835g
    5DII or 7D (810/820g) + 70-200 = 2380/2390g
    2380/2835 = 84%, You lose only 16% weight, not a big deal
    Besides, the 1Ds is not that heavy, it is slightly lighter than an F4s (1280g) and a lot lighter than an F4e (1400g) and all these are no big deal compared to a heavy lens
     
  5. Your neck is no place to hang a DSLR, not even a lighter one such as suggested by Paul. Use your neck to carry a loupe perhaps, if you use one, a light meter if it's light, a press badge without question, but a DSLR, never. If you don't get the system suggested by Matt, at least hang the camera from your shoulder. People often have strong shoulders, we rarely have strong necks.
     
  6. I don't think you could go wrong either way. As said before, one of the 5D's sounds like a logical choice.
     
  7. The 5DII option makes the most sense to me, that's why I went that route. An added bonus is that if you came from the world of 35mm film SLRs, then there's no math to do unlike using a crop body...things are as they were all along, with a FF sensor.
    Another factor in my decision to move to the 5DII rather than the 1D series was the weight issue. 6.24 pounds for the 1D series and 5.24 pounds for the 5DII option. Only 16% less, but at some point you're going to feel it with a 24-104L or the 100-400L.
     
  8. I have had my 1Ds going on 5 years, I bought the 7D about a year ago, having looked at the type of work you do I would keep the 1Ds. You do not need the quick buffer, iso should not be a problem for the type of images that you take. Like you I love the color of the 1Ds. I do not carry my camera on my neck, that hurts, I just sling it over the shoulder.
     
  9. You don't need numbers to say how heavy the 1ds is, It is heavy period. I also have a mint condition 1ds which only have 9,000 actuation counts when I got it, I've been using it for half a year with 24-105L , Then I tested the 7d with 18-200 IS lens, The latter felt so light in my hands, As if it were a toy. I got so used to the weight of the 1ds + 24-105 combo that even 5dm2 also felt light, When in reality both the 7d and 5dm2 are heavy bodies.
    Until I realized that I need a small and light body for casual, fun and not so serious kind of picture takings. And my neck and back starts to hurt after long hour of logging the 1ds + 24-105 , Plus extra batts. and other lens. That I just bought (on sept. 6 2010) this week a 550d t2i with 18-55 IS kitlens, I haven't regretted the decision, The 550d t2i is an amazing camera and the 18-55 IS kitlens is very sharp.
    If you are used to the weight of 1ds, I'm sure you'll by surprised how light the 7d is. And that the 550d t2i would feel so light like a hollow camera shaped plastic.
    Ps: I wouldn't sell my 1ds though, It's a classic, Like my 50mm 1.8 MK1.
     
  10. In the same price range do you think 7D will satisfy my expectations about performance by being a lighter body than 1Ds.​
    No, it will not. Try a BlackRapid strap, or one of the modular systems, as suggested, failing that a 5D MkII.
     
  11. Hakan, another alternative is to hang your camera diagonally across your shoulder -- e.g. over your right shoulder, across your back/chest, and under your left arm. I like to carry my camera that way in a holster bag. When I want to shoot, I pull the camera out of the bag and hang it around my neck. When I'm done, I put it back in the bag. This is especially useful for protecting the camera while hiking and climbing. You should occasionally switch shoulders, BTW, to keep your posture even.
    If you ultimately need a lighter camera, one of the Rebel series might be light enough to actually make a difference -- e.g. the T2i with a polycarbonate-bodied EF-S lens. That's probably as much performance to weight as you're going to find.
     
  12. I just bought the Black Rapids RS-7, it is a cross chest strap with pockets for storage. Great product.
     
  13. In the same price range do you think 7D will satisfy my expectations about performance by being a lighter body than 1Ds.
    No, it will not. Try a BlackRapid strap, or one of the modular systems, as suggested, failing that a 5D MkII.​
    Ridiculous. The 7D has higher resolution, lower noise, greater DR, and better tonality than an original 1Ds. To say nothing of the many other enhancements which have occurred over the 6 year gap between them.
    That said, Hakan should consider Matt's suggestions, which will prove much cheaper. If he decides to upgrade a 5D mkII would better match his two lenses, and that's a fair argument for going that route. But there is zero question that a 7D could not only match, but well exceed the IQ he is used to getting.
     
  14. Ridiculous. The 7D has higher resolution, lower noise, greater DR, and better tonality than an original 1Ds​
    DXO Mark suggests this statement is wrong re: noise, right on dynamic range, and wrong on tonal range - link
     
  15. Daniel,
    And you know all that because you compared them on a couple of websites. You are welcome to your opinion, it doesn't make it right though. As for the 7D, I wouldn't recommend the switch in this case because Hakan obviously really likes his lenses as they are, on the 7D they are completely different, that is why I did not think it would live up to expectations, as for EV6 performance on the 7D, I have been disappointed. However my suggestion was the same as Matt's! And I then went on to give two others, both of which you agree with. You have never used a 1Ds Mk anything, there is no fight here, just a difference of opinion, one of them from experience. Your opinion is just as worthless to Hakan as mine.
     
  16. Hakan, If I were you I would keep your current setup until it died in my arms. I'm with Matt - change your carrying habits and support equipment.
     
  17. Do not carry your camera around you neck! There are many alternatives to that and some have been suggested above. I've given up doing that about 1970! If a bag is inconvenient, try a vest. You could also carry on your shoulder. If worried of it sliding off, a vest of outdoors clothing may have an epaulet to prevent it from sliding. I won't even carry my 30 oz. binoculars around my neck, unless I have heavy clothing on which will spread the weight. Either on the shoulder, in the camera pack, or in a hand, but seldom around the neck.
    I think the manufacturers supply neck straps just so careless people let the strap hang off tables, catch the strap and the camera is tossed to the floor and then collect on repair bills. I am being facetious, but it happens very frequently.
    Consider having a chiropractor work over your neck and ask for exercises to help it. You may need to raise your computer and or your work area. A co-worker had extreme problems with his next. Two doctors told him he needed surgery. He then went to a chiropractor and it took a bunch of visits but corrected the problem. The company was willing to recommend changes to reduce the repetitiveness in the way he was using the computer, and he had no problems since them.
     
  18. DXO Mark suggests this statement is wrong re: noise, right on dynamic range, and wrong on tonal range - link
    DxOMark's results are generally wrong to begin with.
     
  19. And you know all that because you compared them on a couple of websites...You have never used a 1Ds Mk anything, there is no fight here, just a difference of opinion, one of them from experience.
    Scott, please do not make or post assumptions about other people or their experience when debating issues on these forums. Running and hiding behind false assumptions only makes you look arrogant.
    If I misunderstood your original post and your statement was driven by format differences and not IQ, then I apologize for taking the thread off in that direction. But this does not excuse your statements above.
    If you do disagree with my IQ assessment, and you have tests or sample images which prove any of my claims false, please post them. And do so without the bravado. If they are valid, I will concede the point.
    If you do not have your own tests or samples, feel free to refer to published tests and samples. I do not have access to an original 1Ds at this time (key words there Scott), so I'm afraid I cannot cobble together some personal tests right now. I can point to numerous published tests and samples which will make the point, however.
    To further expand on my earlier post: I do not trust or use DxOMark results because of how often I have found their results to be at odds with the results of other test sites and with real world experience.
     
  20. Personally I almost never use the strap on my neck, I much prefer to mount it on my shoulder instead, there seem to be many camera support systems available these days that help put that weight off the neck.
     
  21. I will throw in my 2 cents in one more time, I own the 1Ds, the 5D, and the 7D, for the type of photography that the original poster does the 1Ds is the best camera for that use (my opinion). I don't know about tests never looked at them to compare how one camera did compared to the other (exception being that I did look at how people felt about the 1Ds and 5D when I was going to purchase a full frame). After much consideration I went with the 1Ds and never regretted the decision, purchased the 5D because of an event I was asked to do that would require very high iso, no flash allowed. To this day if my intent is do landscape type photography I will take my 1Ds, a tripod, and shutter release (or use the timer if I forget the shutter release). I use my 7D for macro, birds, and recently used it to do a wedding as I wanted to also do video (video is the reason I bought the 7D). My backup was the 1Ds not the 5D. They are also excellent cameras and the IQ what ever that means is a matter of opinion, like women we tend to define beauty differently. I will mention that I also have the Canon 1V and the view finder on that camera is second to none.
     
  22. The picture of the people working on the painting is nice, but it seems to me the stronger images in your portfolio were shot on film.
     
  23. Daniel,
    Whatever. I love the way you quote some tests ad nauseum whilst casually dismissing others. Post your own empirical results, as I have in the past, and you might gain some credibility. I am not arrogant with regards your opinion, just dismissive. I have explained before, for your benefit, why I believe my empirical results differ from your referenced tests, every time I have shown you are wrong you just leave a thread, take it or leave it.
    Take care, Scott.
     
  24. maybe consider also trading down to a 70-200 f.4 IS if you don't need the extra stop. It weighs roughly half as much.
     
  25. To be honest, if I were you with chronic neck pain I would ditch ALL the kit, and replace it with a 5D II, 24-105 L and 70-200 f4 L IS. IMVHO, the 24-105 performs better on the 5D II than the 24-70, and the 70-200 f4 is every bit as good as the 2.8 lens. So the package is at least as good in terms of image quality in every area, but much, much lighter.
     
  26. and the 70-200 f4 is every bit as good as the 2.8 lens​
    The latter is the back breaker in my kit, and I've been toying with getting the former. Another trick, if you're using a shoulder bag, is to roll the big gun into a towel or something, and stow it in a packsack. It's harder to access, but tends to be the seldom used anyway.
     
  27. I will just echo what has been said already.
    I carry my 1Ds over my shoulder with a nice padded strap. I can carry it all day and hardly know that it was there. 2 mins around my neck and I need to see a chiro.
    Cropped sensor will drastically alter things for you with your current lens kit. Not in a good way.
     
  28. As someone who has a 1DIIN, 5DII and 7D (plus 1VHS, 1NRS etc...) I would suggest staying with the 1Ds or buying a 5DII. If find that the 7D is about as capable as the 1DIIN (there are differences and the 1DIIN outperforms the 7D in some areas while the 7D improves on the 1DIIN in others). You will not find the 7D gets to full frame performance but it is much smaller and lighter. Apart from the angle of view differences I suspect that image quality will be similar form the 7D and the 1Ds as sensor technology has advanced a lot between these bodies.
     
  29. Consider taking yoga classes for your neck pain. Often when there is discomfort in one area it's connected to another. You really need to stretch out your whole body. Not only is this relaxing but it will prevent your body from returning to the fetal position as you get older.
     
  30. believe yr best choice to be 5D MK2 or dual 5D if can got any fine pieces fm second hand.
    Apsc format will deeply effect yr sensation to lenses built on full format, also believe me it is not a better choice to try...
    one exception is if you are in eager demand of 720P 60FPS video shooting ,u'll need a 7D
     
  31. believe yr best choice to be 5D MK2 or dual 5D if can got any fine pieces fm second hand.
    Apsc format will deeply effect yr sensation to lenses built on full format, also believe me it is not a better choice to try...
    one exception is if you are in eager demand of 720P 60FPS video shooting ,u'll need a 7D
     
  32. There's carrying your kit, and carrying your camera with lens attached when in use. Two different problems. There are lots of ways to carry your kit, and everyone has to find their own preference, but for actually carrying your camera at the ready, a neck strap takes a lot of beating. Unless you are prepared to move away from that (I would not be) then (a) you have to find the most comfortable neck strap, again a very personal choice that can make a lot of difference, and (b) you have to reduce the weight round your neck. I feel your pain, beacuse I sometimes used to use my 1V with PB-E2 and 100~400, a combination of about the same weight and bulk as a 1Ds with 70~200/2.8. It convinced me that whatever their merits, and leaving cost aside, the 1D series was not for me because I would not have the option that I did with the 1V of taking the booster off.
    So, what to do? I strongly suspect that, as several other posters have said, you would be happier with a 5DII than with a 7D (incidentally, I have a dual-format kit including both those bodies, so I speak from familiarity with them). And that's good, because the 5DII is actually very marginally lighter than the 7D – and, of course, both are very mich lighter than any 1D-series body. But I think you're going to have to do something about those lenses if you are serious about weight loss. The biggest win would come from replacing the 70~200/2.8 with the 70~200/4IS, and you'd make a further significant gain by replacing the 24~70 with the 24~105IS. I'm weight-averse too, and my carry-round kit comprises 5DII, 17~40, 24~105, and 70~200/4IS, which gives me no problems.
     
  33. Whatever. I love the way you quote some tests ad nauseum whilst casually dismissing others.
    Scott, you are the master when it comes to casually dismissing others. Your entire response to me was an attempt to casually dismiss me based on your false assumptions about my experiences. It's rude and arrogant and it's not the first time you've tried to pull that card from your sleeve and play it.
    Post your own empirical results, as I have in the past, and you might gain some credibility.
    There you go again with your false assumptions and attempts to casually dismiss me. If you review my posts you will find I have posted empirical results in many conversations. Just because you posted some FF vs. crop telephoto shots in one thread (which, btw, betrayed the point you were trying to make) doesn't mean you're the authority on any issue that comes up. If you want to prove something here and now, you have to perform tests relevant to here and now.
    I am not arrogant with regards your opinion, just dismissive.
    Dismissing my opinion based on false assumptions about me when you have nothing to back up yours is arrogant.
    I have explained before, for your benefit, why I believe my empirical results differ from your referenced tests, every time I have shown you are wrong you just leave a thread, take it or leave it.
    I believe I've only participated in one thread with you where you posted empirical results. As I recall, your results proved the opposite of your initial claim, and several people pointed this out to you. I'm not aware of any time where you "proved me wrong" and I left a thread. If I missed a ground breaking post of yours in a past debate, please, feel free to point me to it.
    BTW, I think that it's hilarious that you're willing to take an untenable position just to argue with me. Or just to argue FF vs. crop. I said the 7D has higher resolution than the 1Ds, which is self evident. I said the 7D has less noise, which should also be self evident considering Canon capped the 1Ds ISO at 1250. (The 7D is usable for larger prints at ISO 3200.)
    I said the 7D had greater DR. Proof would require putting both against a Stouffer step wedge. But if you have any of the experience you claim with early Canon DSLRs then you must remember they maxed at about 8.5 stops of DR. The 7D, like other modern Canon DSLRs, measures to about 10.
    And I said the 7D had better tonality. This should be a given considering 7 years of improvements in sensor, ADCs, processing, and the move to 14-bit files. (Though in all fairness it would probably never be relevant in real prints. Settings, processing, and printers have a much larger impact on tonality and gamut than sensor differences.)
    But I'm sure you'll find a way to dismiss all of that.
     
  34. No, just ignore it as irrelevant and remain amused at your selective memory.
    Take care, Scott.
     
  35. daniel like you I suspect the IQ of the 7D will be as good or better than the 1Ds, I find that my 7D produces better images than my 1DIIN except at higher ISO. The 1DIIN is obviously lower resolution than the 1Ds (8.5MP APS-H vs 11Mp Fullframe) but it is newer. at high ISO the 1DIIN is probably slightly less noisy than the 7D although the extra resolution of the 7D allows you to offset this. Here are some crops I did a while ago that represent the same area of the image - they are hockey shorts.
    00XG6Y-279099584.jpg
     
  36. 1DIIN to show how sensors have improved - same are but obviously shows smaller due to lower pixel count.
    00XG6f-279101584.jpg
     
  37. When you look at them at similar size they 1DIIN is perhaps slightly better. At lower ISOs (sub 800) there is no contest the 7D has a lot more detail than the 1DIIN and produces better images. Given the 2009 camera beats my 2005 1DIIN in most circumstances (it lacks some functionality such as multi-spot metering, viewfinder blind etc...) I would be surprised if it cannot improve on a 2002 camera. For what it is worth DXO mark rates the 7D sensor as being as good or better than the 1Ds. Of course the 7D has higher resolution but will be an issue for wide angle use (unless you buy some EF-S lenses). Personally I use my 16-35II as the standard lens on my 7D and just take my 5DII for wide angle use.
     
  38. I switched from the Canon-brand strap to a Crumpler padded strap, designed to spread the weight out a bit more, and I'm AMAZED at how light my camera feels when hanging. For $30, it's certainly a lot cheaper than buying a new body, and if you decide to go with a new body, you can use the strap on that to gain even more comfort.
     
  39. I am a pretty young and well built 45 and still get extreme pain from carrying my 5D Mark II with 24-70 or Sigma 70-200 and god forbid I put my 85 1.2 L on camera. Then add the 580 EX II strobo frame and battery pack and the whole thing gets heavy fast. I like use a Tamrac Curved neck strap which has elastic bands and a soft strap around nech to make more compfortable. BUt, I like the idea of some type of waist or should device instead. PS - I am also a computer programmer so I already have neck, back, and shoulder strains from work.
     
  40. I own and enjoy a 1D mk ii and a 5D mk II plus a stable of great Canon lenses, However I too find them to be heavy to
    carry around constantly. In my case it's the result of 30 years hauling luggage over my shoulder through airports. My
    solution was to buy a Leica M8 a couple years ago which i just upgraded to an M9 a few months ago. The camera is
    lighter. The lenses are MUCH lighter. Many of the lenses are two stops faster as well. My M9 and four lenses fit in the
    same space as my 1D with my 28-70 lens.

    Yes, they're expensive but since you're already buying 1 series cameras and L glass it doesn't seem like saving money is
    your concern.

    If you've been shooting for 23 years then you remember the days before auto-everything. The Leica is a throwback to
    those times. Some people enjoy the experience, others don't so find a local dealer and try it out. Some smaller dealers
    may even loan you one for a day to try it out.

    Of course, that's just one old guy's opinion so take it for what it's worth.
     

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