P6000 with raw support and integrated GPS

Nikon annouced some new Coolpixes. What is interesting is that they managed to integrate GPS into a small compact

camera body (P6000). It would therefore seem logical that in new DSLRs, there would also be integrated GPS. I

can't wait for this! I use a 3rd party device which is really compact and works well but it's still an additional

component that needs to be attached and takes up a port in my DSLR.

 

What is not so good is that they put 13.5 MP in a 0.4 cm^2 (!) sensor. This is crazy! I wonder how much damage

this does to the image quality.

 

I'm thinking of getting one of these things and putting it on an RC helicopter for some interesting viewpoints in

the countryside.

"I'm thinking of getting one of these things and putting it on an RC helicopter for some interesting viewpoints in the

countryside."

 

Ilkka, I never would have suspected this side of you. ;-)

 

My theory is that Nikon already has GPS installed in all our digital SLRs, so they always know where we are. :-0

Well... it looks like really great kit in so many ways but I think Ilkka is likely right about the image quality.

 

Judging from the sample photos at nikon's page

 

http://imaging.nikon.com/products/imaging/lineup/digitalcamera/coolpix/p6000/index.htm

 

the sensor is remarkably good at ISO 64. But there aren't any full-size samples at any higher sensitivities, and the fact that ISO 3200 and 6400 are only available at three megapixels and below does rather suggest to me that we aren't going to see Fuji F100fd-style performance here. We'll have to wait and see. Judging by the performance of the predecessor, I am not that optimistic.

 

But then it does have lens-shift VR, which will hopefully work quite well, and support for iTTL flashes, so I imagine that as an events camera it's going to be quite usable.

Yikes, it has a new RAW format, NRW?! I'd be very tempted to pick this up if it could shoot a true NEF file. I've been thinking to replace my Canon A620, which shoots a 7.1mp file and no RAW format. It's OK for low-priority photos, but I've often wanted a worthy backup to my D300, and the P6000 looks like it would be that, IF it could produce an NEF file. What was Nikon thinking???

B&H list it as approx. arrival October. Too bad, if I could snap one up before leaving for Europe next month I'd probably do so. Looks like it might be the Canon G9 after all, which should still be a good small camera to supplement my D300.

I realize that 28mm equivalent is considered wide for a P&S, but it's too bad Nikon didn't bring back a little of the Coolpix 8400 and give the P6000 a 24mm equiv. lens.

<i>What was Nikon thinking???</i>

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They were thinking you'd like a nice, shiny new copy of Capture NX - <i>that's</i> what they're thinking!

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But they'll make far more money selling Ilkka the same camera over and over again as he wrecks them in small but spectacular helicopter crashes.

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Ilkka: I'd LOVE to see some output from such a project. Fascinating. Having played, many years ago, with an early RC 'copter, I'd wonder if the vibration would present too much of a problem. I guess on a larger vehicle with <i>very</i> well balanced rotors, it might work... but I'd still worry about the fuel/exhaust spray on the camera. You'd have to build it a nice little enclosure. Don't you dare do something like that without posting a shot of the rig, and what you get out of it. Fun!

It looks like features such as built-in GPS, some video capture, sensor cleaning ... will soon be standard features on high-end DSLRs. Add those with the expanded memory buffer should produce a pretty nice, improved D3s.

I agree, built-in GPS would be very cool. I am thinking of getting some sort of GPS deal for my D300 when I'm in London, but I don't want to have some dorky dongle hanging from the camera when I'm shooting...

>They were thinking you'd like a nice, shiny new copy of Capture NX - that's what they're thinking!

 

Well that's what I'd have thought they were thinking! But according to dpreview:

 

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08080702nikonp6000.asp

 

'Capture NX, Capture NX2 and NEF files are not compatible with NRW (RAW) images.'

 

Which is just plain odd...

Incompatibility with Capture NX2 rules it out for me ... and I was waiting to buy one since the first announcement several months ago. This is as short-sighted as leaving the bracketing button off the D300.

Apparently those NRW files can be converted with NikonView NX but on Wimdows machines only.

If you are an Apple Mac user, you are out of luck.

That indeed seems to be a strange restriction, but perhaps I don't understand it correctly.

And View NX doesn't do a fantastic conversion.. so all in all.. this new NRW format is a big loser for Nikon. And whoever in marketing thought of it should be fired.

If it is merely a software issue, I am sure Nikon can fix it easily with a future version of Capture NX2 or Adobe can fix it with the Camera RAW soon. Hardware issue such as the missing bracket button on the D300 and D700 are more long-term problems (for as long as you are using that camera).

The reason it is windows-only is because they are relying on microsoft's raw converter thing. Perhaps the only thing necessary for it to work on the Mac is for Apple to similarly support it.

 

As to all this complaining about a new raw format... it's a compact camera with probably quite a lot of on-camera image processing. It seems to me that maybe this raw file needs to communicate data that NEF can't, or in a format that NEF can't. Adobe will rapidly support it with Camera Raw, either way.

 

But if I was in the market for one, I don't think this would be the main thing holding me back. I'd want to see if it is as ghastly and reliant on on-camera processing at ISO 400 as every other nikon compact for two years has been.

Shun, the bracketing button problem could also be fixed in software by making more of the buttons dual-function in the functions that matter - like bracketing. It's a lame fix, but it would sell more cameras.

I have used and passed on to relatives the Canon Powershots A80 (now in Iraq), A95 (now with my daughter) and

A620 (now with my wife). I currently use the Canon A650IS (as well as a Nikon D200). Nikon got my hopes up with

the P5000 and P5100, but both got tepid reviews.

 

BTW, I have made excellent 12 by 18 inch prints from the 5 meg A95. I like the use of AA batteries, a flexible

LCD and a camera one can get a could grip on. That's why I passed on the G9.

 

I never take photos in machine gun mode, nor require extreme telephoto. With adequate ambient light (EV 10 or

higher) and with low end ISO settings, the advantages of a DSLR over a good P&S are marginal in terms of IQ, and

the smaller cameras are much more portable. Heresy, I know.

Why the concern over the NRW RAW format? Even if it were NEF, wouldn't we have to wait for an upgrade to our s/w before we could convert the file, anyway? At least that's been the case with the release of most of the DSLRs.

 

larsbc

By the time the camera is released, ViewNX will be upgraded to support it. However, it appears there is no such intent to have support in NX, much less Adobe. And then there is the issue of non-support for Macs.

 

I think other than this limitation -- which is a dealbreaker for me -- it sounds to be a pretty neat P&S. Thom Hogan obviously doesn't agree because he gave it a clear two thumbs down.

Well no NEF no purchase for me. I'm thinking Canon G9 this time. Sorry Nikon, you tried, you failed.

On reflection, I'd say wait and see on this one. There are lots of other unknowns at the moment (is the AF any good? what's the noise like at 800 ISO?). Unless NRW is a wildly unconventional raw format (or perhaps not a real raw format at all!) it may be very easy for ACR, dcraw, Aperture, Bibble, PhaseOne and the rest to support it. Raw files even from completely different manufacturers tend to be broadly similar in structure, and the authors of 3rd party converters have had few difficulties in supporting all the existing formats (even oddball files like those from the Foveon sensors, or those with encrypted metadata). If Nikon can't or won't support NRW in CNX2 or Mac VNX (as dpreview suggests), then that's only a problem for diehard NX users and the Nikon software sales division.

Difficult for me as well to understand what's magic or critical about having NEF.

 

I doubt Nikon would include a raw format so limited -- or limiting -- that most users will be unable to make use

of it. Keep in mind that these users, a number of whom are on Macs, are the same folks for whom the raw has been

included.

 

My first take:

 

- very pleased to see 28mm on the wide end and very decent zoom range

 

- pleased that the 'grippy' looking body has been preserved

 

- pleased that the optical viewfinder is still there (though I know it's small)

 

- not too bothered by f/2.7 - 5.9

 

- bothered by 13.5 mpxls on a small sensor, which I regard as a bad thing, not a good thing

 

- incredulous at the inclusion of 6400 iso, so that we might have "new opportunities to take sharper, more

natural-looking photos in lower light conditions." ** How naiive does Nikon believe we actually are ? :-)

 

- hoping that one can pre-set and preserve a manually focused distance for fairly quick street snapping, which

is what I like to do, and hoping also that this is a reasonably responsive camera when left in autofocus --

something I'd say has been a persistent weakness in the top-of-line Nikon compacts for several years

 

Let's see what happens when the camera materializes.

 

** My quote comes from the Nikon web page describing the new P6000:

 

http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Digital-Camera/26135/COOLPIX-P6000.html

I'm mostly unsurprised that Thom doesn't like this new beastie, but I'm tremendously surprised to see him recommending the Panasonic LX-3. This camera is not yet out, the technical press seem to be being asked by Panasonic not to show preproduction sample images at greater than 640x480, and the only sample images coming from Panasonic themselves are ISO 80.

 

Any full res images I have seen look pretty scrappy at ISO 400 or above, although it's fairly clear that some of the test shots from journalists show more the limitations of the journalist than the camera.

 

So they are really doing what Nikon is doing; telling us it has extended sensitivity, but then only showing its slowest. I am unimpressed.

Again on the NEF thing, I'm just not seeing why everyone is panicking here. Larry Anon and Richard Williams have it right. NEF isn't a single, immutable, cross-device-compatible format. It would be possible for a new NEF-producing camera to come out with exactly the same restrictions as this one has. We've seen this before. Every new Nikon needs new support from application manufacturers, and Nikon has thrown worse spanners in the works than a new raw format, before now. Encrypted white balance data, anyone?

 

If you are concerned, don't take the weird wording of a press release as final. Nikon's press release can only speak for Nikon, and you are reading intent where no clear indication of it exists, from what I can see. Contact Bibble, Adobe, Apple, etc., and find out what the likelihood of support is.

"Contact Bibble, Adobe, Apple, etc., and find out what the likelihood of support is."

 

 

Very enthusiastic as one can imagine. See e.g.:

 

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/?13@763.ID35iqIOSWh@.59b61a1b

 

A new restriction in RAW format conversion is just what we need - especially in view of the history of

"excellent" software rom Nikon. Nikon must be out of their mind.