OK you talked me out of the Kowa...but not into the Hassy

OK...thanks first of all for the limited feedback on yes or no to the

Kowa system. I am eliminating it from my choice. Though I still

don't see me spending the money for a Hassy, cause I can get much

more equipment (I want a wide, normal, medium and long tele) to go

with some of the other brands. Since I am no longer working as a

professional (i.e. daily extended use)I can do with a Mamiya or

Bronica or similar. I don't know the histories of the models for

either of these cameras, so some model histories would be great if

you have the inclination. I see so many different Bronica and Mamiya

645 models, I don't know which is current, recent or really old.

And which of these 2 has the greatest array of lenses? Anyway, I'd

like to spend between $1000 & $1500 on a good used package. Is this

feasable with either of these systems?

 

HELP would be appreciated!!!!

 

Victor Lioce

So get a Mamiya C220/C330 TLR. Lens choice includes 55, 65, 80, 105, 135, 180 and 250. Quiet, rugged, easy to use. If the screen is not bright enough for you get a brighter one installed.

You didn't ask me but, as long as it is not a professional issue that keeps you shooting, why not look at Kiev America. I have heard good reviews on the 88(Hassy look-alike). And the entire system is less than $500. Accepts Zeiss lens I believe and some other lens systems.

I've watched this thread with some interest, since I came into MF several years ago via a Kowa Six system (still have it, by the way), but about a year ago migrated to a Bronica GS-1 system (6x7 format, as well as 6x6 and 6x4.5).

 

The positives: Optical quality is much improved, TTL and OTF metering is included, no jamming on the film advance, and the viewfinders are much improved. In addition, the 6x7 format (in any brand, I presume) is a revelation.

 

The down side: Price (you won't touch the components you want in a GS-1 system for the dollar range you mentioned unless you accept real "bargains"), more weight, and the vagaries of removable backs.

 

Maybe a 6x6 or 6x4.5 Bronica system would work, however -- their optics are also outstanding, but they tend to be a bit less expense, perhaps because there are more of them out there.

 

Good luck.///Dick Baznik

Well,

 

I like my Hasselblad, but I can understand. So I think you have three choices for viable cameras. The Pentax 645, the Mamiya 645 and the Bronica 645. It's easy with the Pentax. Only two models to chose from, the original and the autofocus. Lots of lenses and they are cheap. With Mamiya it's a little more complicated. The oldest are the 645-1000 and 645-J. No removable backs. Then you get into the newer ones with removable backs. The Super, the Pro, etc. The latest is autofocus. All the lenses (except autofocus) work on all the cameras. To make it more interesting, there is the brand new 645E, for economy. Takes the same lenses but it's back to not having an interchangable back. For Bronica, forget the old ones like the S. The choice is the ETRS and the ETRSi (the newer one). All lenses fit either.

 

I think if I were chosing, I'd go with the Pentax. But other people I know love their Mamiyas and Bronicas.

 

Have fun. And take some pictures while you're at it.

The short answer is probably no, you wont be able to get a camera plus 4 lenses for $1500. I would recomend starting with a smaller kit, something like 1 or 2 lenses. First though, you need to decide your priorities. Do you want removeable backs? Do you want leaf shutter lenses? Do you want mirror lock up? Do you want 645 which would require a prism finder, or would 6x6 be better since you can just use a waist level finder?

 

Your main choices are going to be Mamiya 645, Pentax 645, Bronica 645 (ETR, ETRS, ETRSi) or Bronica 6x6 (SQ, SQA, SQAi). I personally own a Bronica ETRSi with 40mm, 75mm, and 150mm lenses. The reason I chose this system was that I wanted a small versatile 645 format camera with mirror lock up, leaf shutter, and interchangeable backs. This was the only camera that met my requirements. (I agree with you on Hasselblad being too expensive, I owned one once and didn't much care for it.) The problem is this kit isn't cheap, if you go to the older Bronica bodies, they don't have mirror lock up, which to me was very important.

 

I'll be honest, you can't get what you want for the money you are looking to spend. Take a look at Mamiya TLR's. Like someone mentioned above, that sounds like it will be your best bet. If you don't like that, then look into getting one of the afore mentioned cameras with just a normal lens. Say a Bronica ETRS or ETRSi with a 75mm, a 120 back and a prism. Or, a Pentax 645 with a 75mm. Or a Mamiya Pro or 1000 with a normal lens.

Perhaps we can talk you into Hasselblad after all. Take a good luck at used prices, for example at keh.com or at ebay.com

While it's pricy to start with, you can later sell it for pretty much what you bought it for. Another plus: rental availability!

If you like 6x6 format, try the Rollei 6000 series. Similar in shape to your old Kowa only way better lenses and technology. An entry level kit is affordable if you are seriously looking at the other posted choices. I like Hassy too, but Rollei is looking mighty good for a couple other purposes I have in mind.

I'd still like to argue for the maligned Kievs:) I haven't a lot of

experience with the 88 hassy copies, but the Kiev 60 is way better

than it should be. If you can live without different film backs, the

60 is still an idea, at least. All of the lenses you mention are

available, and while not up to hassy standards, are again, far too

good for what I'd expect.

OK! For all of you who said it couldn't be done....look what I just got on e-bay for less than $2K

 

Mamiya 645M Body with AE Prism Finder (the AE is the more expensive of the prism finders for this model)-Some corners and edges have paint worn off body-no dents-excellent mechanically. Mamiya 1000S Body with AE Prism Finder-Few corners have paint worn off-no dents-excellent mechanically. Mamiya-Sekor C 80 MM 1.9 Lens-this is the faster of the 80MM lenses offered for this model (harder to find). Mamiya-Sekor C 150 MM 3.5 Lens. Mamiya-Sekor C 45 MM 2.8 Lens-Numbers slightly yellowed-excellent mechanically. Three 220 Inserts with cases-one like new, rest only slight wear. Two 120 Inserts with cases-one like new, rest only slight wear. Two Mamiya rubber eye cups-mounted on cameras. One Mamiya Camera Grip. 2 Hot Shoe to Hot Shoe Cords to connect flash unit to camera with the use of a Stroboframe or bracket. Vivitar Zoom Thyristor 285 Flash Unit & battery clip. Vivitar 5200 Flash Unit & battery clip -Test fire button does not work-otherwise excellent mechanically. Minolta Flash Meter II-sync capabilities. Metal carrying case with some wear on the outside. Sold only as a complete package deal. Both cameras have mirror lock up, split image, matte-focusing screen. Other features include; user changeable focusing screens, mirror lock-up, and multiple exposure capabilities. Depth of field is easily previewed on the focusing screen by the touch of a lever. 1000S has multiple exposure and timer, offering speeds up to 1/1000 second with electronic flash synchronization available up to 1/60. Cameras and lenses have had regular maintenance and check ups by a reputable repairman. Both camera bodies have had all wear and tear items replaced as needed, such as light seals, sync terminals, mirror springs and clutch assembly mechanisms. Lenses are all in smooth working order-excellent optical condition, and minimal wear. All equipment is in excellent working condition, unless otherwise stated previously. Only the bodies show minor wear on some of the edges. All other equipment is in great cosmetic condition.

 

Just goes to show what a little patience can bring! And it is 2 camera bodies, not one!!!! And the only feature I gave up was high leaf shutter flash sync's! For landscape work...who cares! I'm happy!!!!